HOw do i go DC on my ec300

[mackmack]

Trying to get MY AC system over to DC for HID lights.

How do i do it??? I called and email trailtech and they said they were unfimilar with GG stators .. I told them it was a 2K3 similar (MABYE the same?) as a ktm .. They seemed not to think so.

SO who has done the DC mod on a gasgas??? and how??

 

[kim]

How much power is the HID ?
What voltage is the HID ?

I'll have a look at the wiring diagram when I get home. Should be pretty simple.

K

 

[GMP]

I think they are the same with the exception of the stator plate and timing. Basically you need to float the AC ground on the stator, and use both windings across the rectifier/regulator. Look at the trailtech instructions vs. your stator, should be obvious.

 

[slocalspode]

I am right in the middle of this very modification. Converting a 2K3 Stator
I purchaced from a forum member. I looks exactly like the KTM 2K3 stator
shown on their web site with the exception of the backing plate. The
GasGas is round where as the KTM plate is trimmed.
Here is one KTM stator that TrailTech sells:
http://www.trailtech.net/S-8301-05.html
****************************************************
This is the link you need:
Here are the instructions on how to modify your stock stator:
http://trailtech.net/media/electrical/dc_conversions/ktm_dc_conversion.pdf
*****************************************************

This an explination of the concept of AC to DC conversion:
http://trailtech.net/media/electrical/dc_conversions/ac-dc_key_concepts.pdf

If you buy TrailTech's DC kit:
http://www.trailtech.net/S-8301.html
Insallation instructions:
http://www.trailtech.net/media/inst..._98-04_2K3_Stator_and_RegRec_Installation.pdf

Tech Support FAQ:
http://www.trailtech.net/tech_support_stators.html

Power provided by stock stator:
http://www.trailtech.net/tech_support_ktm_stators.html
---------------------------------------------------------
This from Baja Designs:
http://www.bajadesigns.com/2005 Web Site/statormods.htm
For KTM modifications:
http://www.bajadesigns.com/2005 Web Site/PDF Files/Stator Instructions/KTM K3 Stator Mod.pdf
----------------------------------------------------------
Hope this helps.
Jeff

 

[mackmack]

SO i wonder if i could buy the trailtech KTM dc stator they sell and put it in my gasgas???

 

[slocalspode]

My guess would be yes. If the trailtech comes with a backing plate.
Just swap out yours. If not. Add your plate and install.
Then get a battery and build a box or go the capaciter route.
Here is the box I built out of some scrap Carbon Fiber from my work.
---
here is the Yuasa 1.2 Ah battery I bought.
http://www.batterywholesale.com/battery-store/proddetail.html?prodID=155
TrailTech and McMaster-Carr also sell similar batteries.
-------
I would assume there are some real smart people on this forum that
have gone through this learing curve before and are just sitting back
watching us......
Good luck and let us know how your project comes out. I will post a
report and some finished pictures when I complete mine.
Cheers, Jeff So. Cal.

 

[Leon_gasgas]

Hi!

Here are some instructions on how to convert to DC and use HID lights.

Bike was an EC300 04. I will do it later to my ec250 07 when I have the money for a good HID headlight.

In the middle of the stator, between the coils, there is a grounded cable. You disconnect it. On the upper part of the stator there is a white and a yelow cable connected. You disconnect the one on the right side (the guy who did it remembered that it was the yelow one) and you connect it with the cable you disconnected from the middle.

You remove the oem ac regulator. You remove the seat and behind the tank on the right of the subframe you will find a white cable not connected anywhere. At least I found it there on my 07. You take this white cable and the yelow cable that was connected to the oem ac regulator and you connect them to the yelow and green cables of the dc regulator (the sequence doesn't mater because the voltage is ac from the stator) of the link I attach. You screw well this dc regulator to the frame to be well grounded and you connect its red cable to the positive of an 1,3 Ah battery. The negative of the battery to the ground (frame). The positive to the HID module via a switch and a fuse. Then light up the night! You don't need extra stator modifications.

http://www.duell.fi/popup_image.php?pID=61326 (allow pop-up for this link)

Now my question. As I understood this extra white ac cable behind the tank is not 12v regulated. If I want to use it for some extra halogen lamp I think I need an AC regulator. Correct? I have found some basic AC regulator with a black and a yelow cable and a hole in the middle to attach it to the frame for ground. Do I just connect the white cable to the yelow (or the black) cable of the regulator and then the other cable of the regulator to the light via a switch and a fuse?

Thank you!

Leon

 

[GMP]

It would be best to have photos to document a successfull conversion. You would not want to disconnect the ground for the CDI power winding. I have a 2K-3 in a box at home. If I have time I'll snap a few photos. I have no need/desire to do this mod myself though.

The white and yellow wires from the stator are two separate AC windings with a common ground. The stock bike just uses one (yellow), the other(white) is disconnected. If you float the ground in the stator for DC you cannot connect it back to the DC ground. I have not done this mod but what I think is done is that the ground referance is removed from the stator plate. Each winding is referanced together, and the yellow and white wires are now connected to the AC input of the Trailtech rectifier regulator. Again, I have not done this but it seems simple if you have any experience with power supplies. If you wanted AC as well as DC, you could tap off the AC output of the stator, but the load must float with respect to the frame or DC ground. Total power must also be taken into consideration.

This is exactly what I'm talking about: http://trailtech.net/media/electrica...conversion.pdf


I have used the AC regulator you mention. Its a simple zener diode clipping device. The black wire is ground, yellow is hot (AC) the just gets connected to the AC from the stator. The alloy case has a hole for mounting, but do not depend on it for a good ground. I used it on my '00 after the stocker went up in smoke and mounted it on the upper triple clamp.

 

[Leon_gasgas]

Hi!

What you describe Glen is what I described. The guy who did it just didn't remember 100% if the right cable on the stator windings he disconnected was white or yelow. He remembers yelow. Unfortunatelly he didn't take pictures but his method works for many other HID applications on gas-gases in Finland. One other guy following his method he didn't find the extra free white wire behind the tank but still the power only from the yelow wire connected to the dc regulator was enough for a HID headlight. I believe him because I have been using for long time the headlight wires (powered only from the yelow wire) to power simultaneously two OSRAM IRC spots of 70W total (equal to 100W of normal spots) and they work great.

Still I am confused about the ac regulator. If the black wire is for ground and the yelow is connected to the free white wire of the bike then there isn't any wire to give power to the extra lamp i want to use. How should I do it?

Thank you,

Leon

 

[bergerhag]

[edit] GMP just said what I wrote, no need for me to repeat him...

Ac feed _________________
             ___|__      |
             | reg|      |
             |____|      O  lamp
                |        |
gnd    -------------------

So, in your case, connect the black wire to Chassis, then connect the yellow wire AND the load(lamp) to the free white wire.

 

[GMP]

I looked at my 2K-3 stator (from an '03 EC250). Its EXACTLY the same as the KTM part shown in the Trailtech conversion.pdf. Wire colors, orientation, etc. In fact, even the stator plate appears to be the same with the exception being the edge is milled off the KTM part. The Trailtech stator should certainly go on the GG plate and work. I wouldn't doubt an entire KTM 2K-3 plate and all would fit in a GG.

Now, I'd like to see a KTM 2K-2 stator just for kicks to see if its the same. Opens doors for used parts if someone needs a stator in a hurry.

 

[slocalspode]

I have the 2K2 in my bike right now. When I get it removed to
install my modified 2K3. I will post some pictures of it for a
comparison.... Might be a couple weeks though.
Jeff So.Cal.

 

[GMP]

Jeff,

I have a 2K-2 as well. What I ment was I'd like to see a KTM application of a 2K-2 for comparison. With 35W its not a candidate for a DC conversion, but simply as an alternate spare part source. Never checked, but If the flywheel/crank tapers and timing were the same it would be too easy to beleive for those who want to do a 2K-2 conversion.

Matt should have a 2K-2 in his 200 EXC.

 

[slocalspode]

So are you suggesting we find some friendly KTM owner to pull
his flywheel and take a picture for us? Measure the crankshaft
taper and compare it to a GasGas?
I have a friend with a 99 exc300 KTM. He might let me pull
off this test in the name of science.
Although this information might be available just for the asking,
if we knew who to ask.. KTM talk? maybe. One of our premier
GasGas mechanics?
Thanks everyone for your imput on this.
Jeff so.Cal

 

[GMP]

Its just a curiosity on my part. Should a KTM be parted out on ebay it would be nice to know we could use the parts. My buddy has a 300 EXC. It has a 2K-2 with the factory rivited on weight. I'll have to check it out when we both have a chance.

 

[mackmack]

Well in cornfused so i'm sending my stator and entire wiring harness to dale mazzorrow @ trick for him to do the work in early january..

then ill be running the new TT 3 in 1, 90 watt HID lights used @ LMS!!!!

 

[Leon_gasgas]

Hi!

The stator of the Trailtech DC KTM kit is exactly the same as the OEM GasGas. So, there is no need to float the ground on the stators of GasGas as long as you use both AC output wires (yelow and white)? I went through my old magazines yesterday and I found the 24hr torture test of Dirt Rider on 2003. They mentioned clearly (it was on the Hot list) that the stator of the EC250 and the FSR did not need any mod to run the HID Bajadesigns light! Probably just a DC rectifier/reg and a battery.

As Glen mentioned, the main thing is not to have two different ground connections on the bike (on the stator and somewhere on the frame). So what would be the model of DC reg to use and how would the wiring be (all the way to the HID ballast) after I connect both AC stator wires to the rectifier/regulator?

Also, I went through the wiring on the bike. The free wire I mentioned about behind the tank in the airbox is about the rev meter of the bike. The free ac white wire I found it taped above the cylinder head beside the yelow wire just before it connects to the harness.

I hope this info helps!

Leon

 

[GMP]

They mentioned clearly (it was on the Hot list) that the stator of the EC250 and the FSR did not need any mod to run the HID Bajadesigns light! Probably just a DC rectifier/reg and a battery.

Leon, I wouldn't bet on that. I think what they ment was the 2K-3 had enough power and did not need a rewind. Besides, even if they did say it would work directly, its Dirt Rider mag were talking about here, not EE Times or NASA Tech Briefs.

If the light system was self contained, and had its own rectifier/regulator with an internally ISOLATED DC ground that would be fine. All you would need to do then is hook up your AC and frame ground and your good to go. It doesn't matter which ground is isolated or floating from the frame, the point is they can't be connected together. Floating the AC ground on the stator is more flexible in that you can then add any DC accessory you want as long as total power is considered.

The STOCK stators are the same, its clear from the photos and looking at my stator. The OEM AC voltage regulator(clipper) is grounded by the coil mount. Its simple, prove it to yourself by measuring between the frame and yellow/white wires with an AC voltmeter.

The FSR is a DC system, frame is DC ground.

 

[slocalspode]

I am still confused, somewhat, but that is nothing new for me so I am
fairly comfortable...

That said. What did Leon mean by:
"The free wire I mentioned about behind the tank in the airbox is about
the rev meter of the bike."

I do not remember seeing (any) free wires on my bike. 2002 XC300
If there was a wire for a "Rev Meter" (Rev limiter? or Tachometer?) it
might be nice to hook up an after market tachometer just for reference.

I still feel I need to perform the Floating Ground modification to achieve
my goal of being able to charge a battery and in the future upgrade to
an HID light. So far everything I have heard about using the TrailTech
FullWave Rectifier requires the stator to float the ground. Let me know
if I am wrong.

One question I was going to ask when I got closer to doing my install
is "What do I need to do about the stock voltage regulator?" (voltage
clipper?) that is installed under the gas tank in the the little nook between
the frame rails up by the steering head. Do I just remove it? Tape off the
yellow wire or leave it available for a 12VDC source?

And Where should I look to find stock ground wire(s)to the frame? Is that
the "Coil mount" mentioned by Glen? I believe my regulator (clipper) has
a ground wire that goes to the 6mm screw that bolts down the regulator.

As I understand it. I need to take the grounds from all the lights, horn, etc...
from being grounded to the frame and ground them ONLY to the battery
negative terminal. In essence. The stator, Rectifier/Regulator, battery and
all the electrical components must be linked together and never touch
the frame of the bike.....correct?
I assume the CDI and ignition system do their own thing being grounded
at the stator and to the frame at the coil.

I'd like to thank everyone for sharing their knowledge and experiences.
Jeff So.Cal.

 

[GMP]

As I understand it. I need to take the grounds from all the lights, horn, etc...
from being grounded to the frame and ground them ONLY to the battery
negative terminal. In essence. The stator, Rectifier/Regulator, battery and
all the electrical components must be linked together and never touch
the frame of the bike.....correct?

NO, not correct. The AC common or ground is isolated from the stator PLATE by the stator mod. Thats the whole point of the mod, to break the PLATE/MOTOR/FRAME ground path. The stator ground wire is connected to the winding ONLY, and now used as one side of the AC. Now the AC floats and you can use the frame for DC ground.

If you were to use both AC and DC then you would have to be carefull that the grounds are not connected somewhere.

Depending on the specs of the Trailtech rectifier/regulator, you should be able to scrap the OEM AC regulator.

The CDI power is from a different winding and is isolated.