I do get crazy I can't get the bike to run lean

[Larsa]

2018 GP300 sea level in Stockholm Sweden.
99 Octane it is Sweden so it is not the same as USA RON it is lower.
2% 50:1 Motul 800 Full Synthetic
20 Celsius 68F and a little rain
Needle NEDW#1 at the top, Main jet 168 Pilot jet 40 AS 2 turns out.
Float lever 2mm lower then org. Sparkplug denso W24EsR-u
First I did run 30 minutes then I did clean silencer. Then I did run for 15 minutes and took this pictures.
This track is not so fast and it is gravel and sand average speed 27km/h 16,8mph and am not so fast driver.

I have tested all I can think of.
If I run PJ 38 I do can feel that the engine is to lean. But still drops from the silencer.
I have tested needle N2ZW at #2 still drops.
I have lower the compression by adding two extra cylinder foot gasket .15 and .50 + org .30
That because it was pining when using NEDW#2 and PJ40 MJ175 but still dropping from the silencer.

 

[gg3]

Hi Larsa,
Don't jet by muffler spooge it will drive you insane.It indicates poor combustion efficiency rather than jetting.
Have a quick look at your plug colour to get a general indication.If it is dark & oily there is some other issue.
My 2018 XC300 is running 175,NEDW#3,40 pilot,temp 20 degrees ,elevation 0-500m. So your jetting should be ok.
I always had oil dribbling onto the swingarm until I did the head squish.Now runs clean & heaps of other advantages.

 

[SS109]

Yeah, I agree with gg3. Plus, adding more base gaskets to lower your compression just killed your head squish and changed your port timing. Proper squish and the highest compression for the fuel you run leads to higher efficiency which leads to less spooge.

 

[Jakobi]

My 2018 has had the head setup. Still spooges a fair whack. I'll get a similar amount to the pic in the original post, but it takes me around 70kms of mostly single with a few transport sections to get it like that.

Remember the packing will also be quite soaked and any changes to jetting could take a while to clear out as well.

 

[Larsa]

What can I then do? On my GP300-18 it was as org one .3 gasket. And all older GasGas 300 that I have hade did have 3 gaskets .15 .30 and .5 The highest octane you can get in Sweden is 99 octane that is about the same as USA 93.
When I was using only the .3 gasket the engine started to ping when I did used NEDW #2 and PJ 40. The pinging is gone now.
What is your recommendations.

 

[gg3]

The Motul 800 won't be helping if slow riding.Change to Motul 700.
As Jacobi said,repack muffler as it will be full of oil.
.5mm gasket.
Air filter is clean & not over oiled I guess?
New plug NGK BR8EG
Take it for a good spin so it is at full operating temperature.
Post a photo of the plug.
How does it actually run? Does it sound rich or lean? throttle responsive or not?

 

[(F5)]

Spooge or the plug aren't jetting tools. A bike could be dangerous lean at one throttle position and rich at another for example and those 2 things could badly lead you astray.

I do agree a tight squish is worth achieving. I run about 1mm. But, and it is a BigButt (& I cannot lie. . . sorry) you must reduce the compression ratio back down to what your gas can cope with. Presumably what you are running now.

Read my head thread, it rambles a bit but gets there in the end.


http://www.gasgasrider.org/forum/showthread.php?t=16560&highlight=Head

 

[gg3]

Yeah,but a plug check will give Larsa a general indication if it is way lean or way rich,& maybe eliminate another issue as the current jetting should be close.Based on the riding terrain & style comments Larsa isn't pinning a TZ1000 on a track so should be ok.
Larsa,if you dive into a head mod read F5's thread first.

 

[SS109]

Spooge or the plug aren't jetting tools.

I completely agree on the spooge. However, if you do proper plug chops, and actually cut the plug open to read it, it is a very useful tool in getting your jetting dialed in.

If you really dig in to reading a plug you can tell if your main is correct and even if your midrange "jetting" is good. Look at the pic below. The plug on the left is a wide open plug chop showing the main circuit. The right plug was a needle chop about 30 seconds long in 4th gear hovering around 1/2 throttle. Notice the distinct difference in where the bands are on the insulator. If you felt the need, you could even do it at 1/4 and 3/4 throttle to see if it is lean/rich at those points if you think their is a jetting issue in those ranges.

Using plug chops, along with how easy it is to get the pilot jet correct and dialed in for best performance, you can get a bike's jetting dialed in near perfect for the conditions at that time. Keep a log book with what works at what temp, humidity, and elevation and you can make some pretty educated guesses to when those parameters change.

On actually cutting the plugs open, a 5/8" bi metal hole saw works easy as butter. From John_S over at KDXRider...

Once you start drilling you can feel it cutting and then it tapers off. That's when you've hit the first of two circlips that hold the plug together. Turn it the plug upside down and the clip falls out, drill again until it tapers off, turn it upside down again and the other clip falls out. At that point or shortly thereafter the whole ceramic part of the plug will fall out. It still only takes about 10 seconds from start to finish even with stopping to dump the circlips.

Jetting guide I always follow: Jetting Guide
Original thread on KDXRider with more info: If you do plug chops

 

[(F5)]

Most people contaminate a plug chop. Especially on a dirtbike.

Easy (?) on a roadrace bike where you can pin it open for many seconds on backstraight. But only if you pull the clutch at the end and push the bike back. Ride it back and you have invalidated the reading. And everybody does that.

Mostly spooge I suspect comes at low throttle, low rev situations .

 

[SS109]

Most people contaminate a plug chop. Especially on a dirtbike.

Easy (?) on a roadrace bike where you can pin it open for many seconds on backstraight. But only if you pull the clutch at the end and push the bike back. Ride it back and you have invalidated the reading. And everybody does that.

I agree if someone isn't going to do it right then a plug chop is useless. I know to not ride mine back and I know most anyone serious about jetting knows this as well. I literally carry a plug and wrench to change it out after I stop. Yes, along side a dirt road I actually change the plug. When I get back to my truck I cut the plugs open right there on my tailgate, make adjustments, throw in another new plug, and do it all again.

Now, about having room to do it, I don't know how things are in NZ but in Arizona I can run a bike pinned wide open for miles, all over the state, so room is not an issue for me.

 

[Larsa]

I will read more later many thanks to you all. The spark plug looks almost perfect.
It is the org spark plug Denso W24ESR-U Now I have changed spark plug and put in an NGK B8EG.
I am thinking that a BR7EG can make it better?

 

[(F5)]

I agree if someone isn't going to do it right then a plug chop is useless. I know to not ride mine back and I know most anyone serious about jetting knows this as well. I literally carry a plug and wrench to change it out after I stop. Yes, along side a dirt road I actually change the plug. When I get back to my truck I cut the plugs open right there on my tailgate, make adjustments, throw in another new plug, and do it all again.

Now, about having room to do it, I don't know how things are in NZ but in Arizona I can run a bike pinned wide open for miles, all over the state, so room is not an issue for me.

Haha. Same planet, different worlds. If some pixies stole my 6th gear there are quite a few of our rides that I wouldn't notice its absence.

I'll keep that in the back of my mind as target audience can vary significantly i guess.

 

[gg3]

Is it only the spooge you are concerned about,& otherwise running good?
Leave the plug heat range as is.It would be rare to need a different heat range & changing it may just be masking another issue.
If there are no underlying issues your jetting should fine,if a little lean (in theory).
Couple of easy checks for elimination-
Check the choke is fully disengaging.
Check Power valve is operating correctly & fully opening.
Repack the muffler to remove the oil soaked packing.
Put some fresh gas in with a lower flash point premix.
Go ride the wheels off it.Life is good.

 

[Jakobi]

I'm not sure about the OEM Densos either. Always had spooge with them, but always been in a new bike while trying to get it dialled so probably just a case of correlation and not confirmation.

Regardless I have changed mine to an NGK so I'll report back when I get a chance to ride some more.

I agree with F5 that most spooge is likely caused by low throttle application. I think it's part and package of the PWK carb. Without a squirt jet, we need to run rich enough that whacking the throttle doesn't hesitate. That means excess fuel.. that means spooge. Running richer also gives a smoother and torquier pull under load and helps keep the engine cool. IMO all the benefits outweigh having to wipe it's bum a bit.

If you run up the rev range further you don't spend as much time in this rich area. You tend to be moving faster allowing the radiators to cool the engine, and you kind of prefer snappy 2 stroke power delivery.

Part of the beast! I still think cutting the exhaust shorter eliminates most of the issues on these new GGs. The can looks like it was built for a 4T.. and without a doubt they run a lot hotter (cherry red headers running in darkness), without the addition of extra lubrication in their fuel.

 

[SS109]

I will read more later many thanks to you all. The spark plug looks almost perfect.
It is the org spark plug Denso W24ESR-U Now I have changed spark plug and put in an NGK B8EG.
I am thinking that a BR7EG can make it better?

There is no reason to change the heat range of the plug as the BR8 series plug has been proven to be correct for this engine for years and years.

Haha. Same planet, different worlds. If some pixies stole my 6th gear there are quite a few of our rides that I wouldn't notice its absence.

I'll keep that in the back of my mind as target audience can vary significantly i guess.

So true. It is funny how things can be so different even over here in the same state depending on where in that state you are. It's all good though!

I agree with F5 that most spooge is likely caused by low throttle application. I think it's part and package of the PWK carb. Without a squirt jet, we need to run rich enough that whacking the throttle doesn't hesitate. That means excess fuel.. that means spooge. Running richer also gives a smoother and torquier pull under load and helps keep the engine cool. IMO all the benefits outweigh having to wipe it's bum a bit.

I do not believe it is due to the PWK in and of itself. I've tuned all versions of the PWK and even the older PJ. I have been able to dial in the jetting on them so there is no spooge, or close to it, on almost every bike except an '18 YZ250X. My older '05 Gasser had zero spooge with a PWK but my '11 with Lectron always had a misting of oil just around the silencer exit but no drips or runs. The YZ is a spooge machine and it goes everywhere. My KDX runs clean as can be.

My current Gasser, the KDX, and YX250X are run on a 40:1 mix of pump premium and Lucas semi-synthetic which has a very low flashpoint (177f IIRC). My other Gasser was 40:1, pump premium, but I ran 927 which has a super high flashpoint of like 420f yet ran cleaner spooge wise. Bikes are ridden the same way on the same terrain yet they behave differently as far as spooge. Go figure.

I personally think it has to do with many factors all coming together. Being jetted a little rich and lugging low speed all the time sure doesn't help. IMO, the design of the particular engine, the silencer design (as discussed in another thread on here recently), the general condition of the engine, and how the bike is ridden all play a part.

 

[(F5)]

Small bore roadracing I'd run 30:1 motul 800 with both pwk and mikuni. The tailpipe you could look down the length and it was light mocha like that plug above.

- Course the only time you got below 10,000 was in the pits.

 

[hannesd]

i would go back to the single base gasket and jet according to the jettingchart here (or by your feel) without looking at spooge.
then i'd look at what oil you're using, and look for an oil with lower flash point (wich is what i also need to do) my ec 200 has even more spooge, but runs superb!
i also have been thinking about getting a hotter plug like br7eg but i'll try a different oil first with a repack of my muffler.
it's no use to give you my carb setting since i have a 200 and yours is a 300.
NECJ/NEDW is fairly lean, some run well, others detonate.
if you get detonation, go for a richer needle.
listen carefully at your engine, feel the character, listen to the exhaust sound changing with different jetting, feel the throttle response.

 

[Doc Brown]

NECJ/NEDW is fairly lean, some run well, others detonate.

I don't like that statement to be honest. In the meantime I have jetted two 300's (a 2018 and a 2019-which is mine) using the NECW and they both run well. The NECW is pretty much in the mid range between lean and rich, the NECJ is on the leaner side. The NEDW is half a clip richer than the NECW and goes towards the richer side. And so does the NECH....

 

[Doc Brown]

My current Gasser, the KDX, and YX250X are run on a 40:1 mix of pump premium and Lucas semi-synthetic which has a very low flashpoint (177f IIRC). My other Gasser was 40:1, pump premium, but I ran 927 which has a super high flashpoint of like 420f yet ran cleaner spooge wise. Bikes are ridden the same way on the same terrain yet they behave differently as far as spooge. Go figure.

That puzzles me to be honest. I never had a problem with spooge on any smoker I had. Then I started with the first Gasser (GP 300/18) and the problem appeared. Bought a 2019 EC 300 and it had the same problem. Bought another 2019 EC 300 same problem. Talked to a mate who owns a 2018 GP and a 2019 EC, both 300's and both have the problem. Even with 100:1 they both spooge. He races I am slow, we both have the same amount of spooge.

I tried from 40:1 to 100:1 and nothing changed. My jetting is spot on, the engine is new and runs really well. It is generally believed that oils with higher flash point produce much more spooge than oils with lower flash point. I admit I think that is correct.
However, I run Motul 710 which has a very low flash point and still have tons of spooge Same with three different oils....