I've about had it with Shivers.

[Ud_luz]

OK, I 'm guessing that there really isn't anybody that can make Shivers work. I had one set of 07's revalved by a well know company and sent a brand new spare set from an 07 to Les.

While both performed somewhat better than stock they both feel like every single little rock is square edged and they still tend to blow through the stroke. It's becoming so annoying I've been riding my 08 KTM. Heck the WP's work better stock than the revalved Shivers.

What's my solution here for plush forks that don't blow through the stroke riding in extremely rocky, technical terrain? I'm ready to just pitch the Shivers in the trash.

Thanks.

 

[husley]

Hmmm

Wife had a set of shivers on her Beta. Two tuners and four revlalves and never got em right...tried sub tanks also without sucsess

My Beta/Shivers and a different/new Tuner: worked great!
Used him on our last several bikes

 

[Keg]

Is "blows through the stroke" the latest catch phrase in bikes. What does it mean? That your fork is compressing on hits?? That is what it should do. Valving is speed sensitive and springs hold the bike up.

It seems strange that the bike is harsh on the small stuff but compresses well (blows through the stroke). What is your weight and your sporing rates. I would guess your springs are too light.

 

[Ud_luz]

Is "blows through the stroke" the latest catch phrase in bikes. What does it mean? That your fork is compressing on hits?? That is what it should do. Valving is speed sensitive and springs hold the bike up.

It seems strange that the bike is harsh on the small stuff but compresses well (blows through the stroke). What is your weight and your sporing rates. I would guess your springs are too light.

Les did the last set with .44 springs which would have been right when I told him 195#. I'm down to 180 now. Here's the issue. Running down rocky trails they are extremely harsh and tend to bounce around quite a bit. When you launch off a 3 or 4 foot ledge going down hill the forks almost immediately bottom, disconcerting to say the least. I ride right off the rear fender on downhills due to this.

Les did a nice job making them work much better than stock but these forks are just flat out uncomfortable to ride. I raised the oil level to 120 which helped slightly but these forks feel like a 2x4 as far as harshness goes. When two different tuners set them up, both of which made them work much better than stock, and they still feel very harsh on all the rocks I have to assume part of it is the nature of the forks themselves.

I am by no means an aggressive rider but I do ride very challenging trails. Something just isn't right when the stock WP on an 08 feels much more planted. I've had a couple of people much more experienced than I try adjusting the compression/rebound and sag with both sets of forks and they walk away rather unimpressed.

The Sachs rear I had locally tuned on the other hand I'm quite pleased with.

 

[bchatt]

I also have an '07 with shivers. I have experimented alot with these forks. I could post my shim stacks when I get home, if that would be of any help. My first thought is I don't find these at all harsh... have you wound your comp clicker all the way out ? also, I have found an oil level of 105 to be much better. Yours sounds low. I am running 7.5wt Motul.
The other thought is be sure it is not harshness transferred from the rear - it can be hard to differentiate. GMP rides what sounds like similar terrain to you, and He is very happy so I'm sure it is do-able. ( The shim stacks he has posted are quite different to mine).
Sorry if my reply seems a bit garbled. What I am trying to say is that a good result is definately achievable, I believe.

Funnily enough, I dislike my Sachs rear - I have a softer spring and even with both HS and LS clickers wound all the way out (soft) I still find the rear a bit harsh, especially when I'm not riding hard !

 

[Dave]

Has anyone tried the Race Tech Gold Valves in the 45mm 'Zokes?
I know a couple of folks that don't care for these forks.

 

[GMP]

Mine work very well in nasty rocks at my B level speed. NO deflection. Firm but not abusive ride. I had Les do them, but added a few changes of my own, as I like to experiment and learn. Try this:

Springs. Spring to the stiff sude, but run VERY LITTLE preload, like 1mm, enough to keep the spring from rattling around. Preload is the enemy of a plush ride over small trail trash.

Rebound. Said it many times the fork is a sloppy mess in this respect. Much perceived harshness comes from lack of HS rebound control. I upped the HS stack and its MUCH better, especially important with stiffer springs.

Midvalve. This is a delicate balance, but done right it slows things down without harshness. This is what seems to add versitility to the fork. For pure slow speed hell a checkplate works fine but when speed increases you need more help keeping the fork up. I added a light stack with about 1.4mm float.

Clamps. Get your lower clamp torque down to around 9Nm on two bolts only and just seat the third.

Shock. Drop your rear preload to the point where the steering starts to suffer, and add just enough back. Even try adding low speed comp rather than preload to do this. This will unload the fork. Forget about sag numbers work with feel.

I use Les's base valve setup.

No kidding, I can smash stuff with abandon, not scary like my old WPs were. I hope the new 48mm is close and/or is eaisly tuned. Your results may vary but the fork is definately tunable and is among the easiest for DIY work.

A lot of this I have to credit a member who is now on KTMs for. "Pobit" was quite good at interpreting the issues with the Shiver fork.

 

[wasp4banger]

OK, I 'm guessing that there really isn't anybody that can make Shivers work. I had one set of 07's revalved by a well know company and sent a brand new spare set from an 07 to Les.

While both performed somewhat better than stock they both feel like every single little rock is square edged and they still tend to blow through the stroke. It's becoming so annoying I've been riding my 08 KTM. Heck the WP's work better stock than the revalved Shivers.

What's my solution here for plush forks that don't blow through the stroke riding in extremely rocky, technical terrain? I'm ready to just pitch the Shivers in the trash.

Thanks.

If you're throwing them away, throw them my way.

I like mine, had several re-valves now to get them how I want them. Might be worth posting your shim stacks on here and someone may be able to say what worked for them or suggest which way to go next.
From what little I know suspension feel is very subjective and right for me might not be right for someone else.

 

[Ud_luz]

Might be worth posting your shim stacks on here

Well, I guess I have my weekend project.

 

[PEB]

I love the 50mm shivers on my 07.

 

[GasGasDreamer]

What's my solution here for plush forks that don't blow through the stroke riding in extremely rocky, technical terrain?

i'm not a suspension expert but it sounds like you may;
-have too much rebound dampning. this would feel harsh and also bottom.
-maybe you are over tightrning the triples and pinching the tubes?
-maybe you arent centering/zeroing/whatever u call it when you adjust the right leg on the axle bolt?

i am assuming that you have started with the clickers at stock and then adjusted them each independently ????

i have all stock 06 ec300 and forks are great. i did add flex bars and tubliss front with trials front and that made it even plusher.

i know dick's suspension [dick wilkes] in cali does some unbelievable work with wp.

 

[Tlineman]

I'm fairly frustrated with mine as well. I've taken them to my tuner twice, had them revalved and re-sprung for my weight (0.46 / 215lbs), but feel that they could still be much better. The forks feel way too 'busy" and transmit too much back through the bars.

I've now entered into the matter of starting to play with the shim stack (shims on order), myself as my tuners shop is 2hr drive away. I'm going to start slowly, adding a shim or two to the rebound stack and maybe installing a bleed shim on the midvalve. Not to sure what size of bleed shim to us on the midvalve stack, but I may stick a 15mm x 0.1 in there to start and see if it all makes much of a difference.

 

[GMP]

Why? That will cause more rebound free bleed, exactly what you don't need. Your .46s made things worse, tighten that HS rebound stack up. It feels "busy" because it lacks HS control, the initial rebound travel is very fast and feels harsh like a compression problem.

Some guys epoxy the free bleed hole in the rebound piston closed. Husky Zokes are like this, same piston no free bleed hole drilled. I have not felt the need to yet, the HS part is the main issue, fixed orafice free bleed is limited to low speed.

 

[Ud_luz]

Well, I see there's no agreement on this issue.

Since my shock is due I think I'll send the shock and forks to Les and have him revalve the shock and maybe take a second look at the forks.

 

[bchatt]

I'm fairly frustrated with mine as well. I've taken them to my tuner twice, had them revalved and re-sprung for my weight (0.46 / 215lbs), but feel that they could still be much better. The forks feel way too 'busy" and transmit too much back through the bars.

I've now entered into the matter of starting to play with the shim stack (shims on order), myself as my tuners shop is 2hr drive away. I'm going to start slowly, adding a shim or two to the rebound stack and maybe installing a bleed shim on the midvalve. Not to sure what size of bleed shim to us on the midvalve stack, but I may stick a 15mm x 0.1 in there to start and see if it all makes much of a difference.

Mine came stock with a 11x0.2 bleed shim on the midvlave(checkplate). Removing this is the first step toward increasing rebound control,as GMP says. If yours hasn't got one, I sure woudn't be adding one......
I have also added shims to create a much stiffer and progressive rebound stack. I have taken them from the comp stack with good results there too.
( I like to do things the instant I think of them - waiting around for ordered shims to arrive just aint an option!!) There was a definate decrease in the "harshness' that is often quoted, by beefing up the rebound control. As has been said, alot of it is the bars springing back into your hands.

 

[Tlineman]

Good to know, I'd wondered if the bleed shim would negatively affect rebound. I'll be leaving the midvalve alone then, and just add some shims to the rebound stack.

 

[GMP]

FWIW, there is no real "midvalve" setup in the fork, its just a checkplate with a .3mm shim. Yes, start with fixing the rebound stack first and try it to gauge the diference. Next, go back in and replace the .3mm with the following over the spring:

22 x .1
22 x .1
19 x .1
15 x .1 (stack to adjust float)

Try a float of 1.4 - 1.5 for starters, and work down until it gets more harsh, then back up. This helps slow things down a bit.

A fast guy like you might like this, I do and I'm only half fast.

Get rid of any bleed shims on the base valve as well. A bleed shim under the checkplate is totally ridiculous IMO.

 

[Tlineman]

FWIW, there is no real "midvalve" setup in the fork, its just a checkplate with a .3mm shim. Yes, start with fixing the rebound stack first and try it to gauge the diference. Next, go back in and replace the .3mm with the following over the spring:

22 x .1
22 x .1
19 x .1
15 x .1 (stack to adjust float)

Try a float of 1.4 - 1.5 for starters, and work down until it gets more harsh, then back up. This helps slow things down a bit.

Just installed the shims, and I hope to get the bike out for a ride to try it out tomorrow.

I went to the exact MV setup you list above, and need 0.3 mm of 15mm shims to get a float of 1.5mm. What do you think of this rebound stack
22 x 0.1
22 x 0.1
19 x 0.1
19 x 0.1
18 x 0.1
17 x 0.1
15 x 0.1
12 x 0.1

I'm concerned that I may have taken too big of a step here as I was running
22 x 0.1
19 x 0.1
17 x 0.1
15 x 0.1
12 x 0.1
12 x 0.1

Thoughts?

 

[GMP]

You should feel a definite improvement. Rebound stack is the same as mine.

 

[Eric K]

I understand your frustration with the shivers.

On my '06 EC300 I started with 0.44 springs and found what you are experiencing. Early on, I was about 215 lb. I am now down to 205 lb. Most of my riding is on rocky, root infested trails.

Step wise I increased the spring rate and oil viscosity (easy stuff first).

I now run 0.47 springs and 20W oil. I have not changed the valving. I did crank in the rebound & compression damping a bit.

They now feel very good over the rock gardens and the whoops. Heavier springs and oil keep it from diving too much. It still has a plush feel.