I've about had it with Shivers.

[Tlineman]

Managed to sneak away from the kids this afternoon and try the new valving out. Definite improvement, but I don't think I'm done. I started out with the rebound 12 clicks out and cranked them in, in increments of 3. I wound up liking the forks the most with the clickers all the way in. I'm going to try to install one stock spring back in and reduce my spring preload on the other. Just want to try and take out some more of the jarring back to the bars at lower speeds.

I'm currently running 0.46's and there is roughly 5-6mm of preload, too much I know.....

I'm gonna do the spring thing first, before i get back into the valving. I also might lower the oil height a touch. Currently running 120mm. Do you guys measure oil height with or without the spring spacer installed?

GMP, what do you think of changing out the second 22 x 0.1mm shim in the rebound stack for a 21 x 0.15mm shim. According to my charts, a 0.15mm shim is over 3x stiffer than a 0.1mm shim.

 

[GMP]

So what your effectively saying now, being its best with the rebound clicker all the way in, is that you need more low speed rebound, OR, you need the stack to come into play faster. This is what all free bleed does, including the clicker, it just adjusts when the valving becomes active. In the GG fork, the free bleed hole and the bypass (clicker, low speed valve) work in parallel. You might like the bleed hole mod(blocked), that basally makes it just like a Husky Zoke piston. What that does is give greater sensitivity to the clicker and allows the stack to become active faster.

You can try the 21x.15 or add another 22x.1, but at some point in fork rebound speed, your on free bleed only and no amount of additional low speed shimming will change things.

 

[Ud_luz]

So what your effectively saying now, being its best with the rebound clicker all the way in, is that you need more low speed rebound, OR, you need the stack to come into play faster. This is what all free bleed does, including the clicker, it just adjusts when the valving becomes active. In the GG fork, the free bleed hole and the bypass (clicker, low speed valve) work in parallel. You might like the bleed hole mod(blocked), that basally makes it just like a Husky Zoke piston. What that does is give greater sensitivity to the clicker and allows the stack to become active faster.

You can try the 21x.15 or add another 22x.1, but at some point in fork rebound speed, your on free bleed only and no amount of additional low speed shimming will change things.

What is the bleed hole mod? I'm not a suspension guru.

 

[GMP]

There is typically a bleed hole in the rebound piston on the GG Zokes. Some guys have plugged this with epoxy/JB Weld. I never did it, but I've worked on, valved, and ridden Husky Zokes which have the same piston with no bleed hole.

 

[Ud_luz]

Does this affect the low speed harshness?

 

[GMP]

By itself, I can't say. I don't think its fair to compare the same fork with slightly different valving, different springs, on a different bike. All I can say is that the rebound was less of a problem on the Husky. This, like most suspension setups, is also subject to personal preference. I think the reason that the stock piston seems fine to me is that I ride on very trashy trails all the time, lots of small stuff between the big stuff, no smooth dirt. The "active" feel of light dampening in the start of the stroke seems to work well, and with the stiffer HS stack, the nasty spike after a deep compression is controlled. As long as the fork stays settled for a turn, and it seems to be OK with the light preload.

 

[Tlineman]

Interesting stuff. I've noticed the free bleed hole but never considered blocking it. JB weld isn't very reversible stuff if you don't like the mod unfortunately. I'll keep ya posted, likely gonna be some time till I can sneak back out on the bike but I'm gonna try the spring mod first. According to some of the other members here that combo of one stock spring and a 0.46 was a well liked mix.

 

[GMP]

Well stock is .42 so a .42/.46 would be a .44. I have .44s and like them, but I'm 185 lbs now. .46s may be a good buy because if your faster you may like them better. Its like getting two sets of springs for the price of one. Spring on the stiff side but keep that preload very low.

Yeah, hold off on blocking the bleed hole for now. You have only started to experiment.

 

[CACTUSREID]

tlineman.cactusreid here. just a fwiw here, i'm 195 lbs before gear,and a self proclaimed b rider,and i put a set of 46 springs in my forks,and a 5.6 on my rear shock. it works way better than the stock 42's and 5.2 on the rear. riding higher in the stroke makes for a way nicer ride! there-my 2 cents,carry on,this is a very informative discussion.

 

[Tlineman]

Well stock is .42 so a .42/.46 would be a .44. I have .44s and like them, but I'm 185 lbs now. .46s may be a good buy because if your faster you may like them better. Its like getting two sets of springs for the price of one. Spring on the stiff side but keep that preload very low.

Yeah, hold off on blocking the bleed hole for now. You have only started to experiment.

Sorry, should've been more clear, I'm already running 0.46's and have been since I started tinkering.

 

[ggg]

Shivers.... i hear ya, my 08 450 which i luv still beats me up at the end of the day, today i rode a mates stock ktm 450 09 model and the bike is shit loads better... so plush and planted so much so i am loooking a selling the gasser to get some comfort, ive had the front and rear revalved, springs at both ends where fine for my weight, its a pitty i felel every god dam bump compared to his ktm i wish i never rode it, even the ohlins rear isnt as plush but its the forks that really suck, i have no idea on slims and dont want to stuff around with it, if i cant fix it i will sadly become orange, i am going to speak to sus guy and see if i can expect to get the ride from the shiver the 09 wp delver.

 

[MrBlah]

today i rode a mates stock ktm 450 09 model so plush and planted

nothing plush about stock ktm WP forks, you sure they were not revalved? Which ktm 450 did he have, there's a few versions with different fork setups, they are not bad, but they are not plush without some work, that said I can ride my KTM 450 with stock forks without too much effort

the revalved forks on my 11 ec250 blow them away though

 

[Ud_luz]

nothing plush about stock ktm WP forks, you sure they were not revalved? Which ktm 450 did he have, there's a few versions with different fork setups, they are not bad, but they are not plush without some work, that said I can ride my KTM 450 with stock forks without too much effort

the revalved forks on my 11 ec250 blow them away though

Apparently you haven't ridden the new KTMs. The suspension is amazingly plush. I rode an 2010 530 this afternoon that the suspension was as plush and controlled as almost any revalve I've ever ridden. I was amazed, WP certainly wasn't know for this stock.

 

[MrBlah]

Apparently you haven't ridden the new KTMs. The suspension is amazingly plush. I rode an 2010 530 this afternoon that the suspension was as plush and controlled as almost any revalve I've ever ridden. I was amazed, WP certainly wasn't know for this stock.

I have, and I own an 08, back to back I did not think the 10's forks were any better, the factory valving did not change that much between those years either

they are not bad, but they are no where near as plush as a set of forks revalved by a good tuner, regardless of brand. For WP forks I like ktmworld or bruce's terrain tamer setups, but the terrain tamer modification is pretty extensive and I don't think it's reversible. For zokes I like randall ellison's work

 

[Ud_luz]

I have, and I own an 08, back to back I did not think the 10's forks were any better, the factory valving did not change that much between those years either

they are not bad, but they are no where near as plush as a set of forks revalved by a good tuner, regardless of brand. For WP forks I like ktmworld or bruce's terrain tamer setups, but the terrain tamer modification is pretty extensive and I don't think it's reversible. For zokes I like randall ellison's work

Honestly I was amazed at how well the 2010 530 was after he had worked with the clickers and installed the springs for his weight. It was so good I may well send my 300 down the road, that's how bad it is even after having the suspension set up.

It was like riding a cloud with excellent bottoming control compared to having 2x4's bolted in place of forks. Even my 04 400exc stock is much better than my 07 GG after revalve.

My favourite WP guru is FutureShox in Arizona. I had him do the setup on an 07 525 and noticed he redrilled oil holes and other mods. Most excellent results.

 

[MrBlah]

Honestly I was amazed at how well the 2010 530 was after he had worked with the clickers and installed the springs for his weight. It was so good I may well send my 300 down the road, that's how bad it is even after having the suspension set up.

It was like riding a cloud with excellent bottoming control compared to having 2x4's bolted in place of forks. Even my 04 400exc stock is much better than my 07 GG after revalve.

My favourite WP guru is FutureShox in Arizona. I had him do the setup on an 07 525 and noticed he redrilled oil holes and other mods. Most excellent results.

nothing magic, just a good tuner, well maybe some voodoo, both are open chamber forks too right?

who valved your 300's forks?

the key is the tuner, I wont open my forks/shock myself, it's the only thing I send to someone that knows the brand and how to get them to work well. I'm hyper sensitive to bad fork valving, my wrists and hands cant take it

I could ride a bike with a blown rear shock and I couldnt care less, I ride standing up (back cant handle sitting) the linkless ktm's never bothered me at all, the only thing I notice with them is they skip around a little more than linked bikes, and dont put down quite as much traction

 

[GMP]

Are these the new WP closed cartridge forks your comparing?

 

[Ud_luz]

Are these the new WP closed cartridge forks your comparing?

No, just the regular open chamber. I'm going to pull off the shock and send it to Les, I think I'll have him relook at the forks.

I might not have made it real clear to him the terrain we ride. EXTREMELY rocky, technical type stuff. The Zokes just beat you to death on this stuff. I changed the fork oil out and put in 10 weight which actually made them better. This is all screwed up from what it should be.

 

[GMP]

The fact that 10W improved things should tell you something: its a rebound problem. Oil viscosity affects rebound more than compression.

My local stuff borders on trials terrain in spots. The forks can be made to work. I raced in a fast, rough, hacked up sand/woods course yesterday. The bike worked as well as could be expected, but hanging on for 2nd place beat the crap out of my hands. I was going through the travel with the soft rock valving way to fast. Les is a great guy, he will make it right.

 

[Ud_luz]

The fact that 10W improved things should tell you something: its a rebound problem. Oil viscosity affects rebound more than compression.

My local stuff borders on trials terrain in spots. The forks can be made to work. I raced in a fast, rough, hacked up sand/woods course yesterday. The bike worked as well as could be expected, but hanging on for 2nd place beat the crap out of my hands. I was going through the travel with the soft rock valving way to fast. Les is a great guy, he will make it right.

I really didn't make it that clear to Les where I ride this thing. Actually it's not bad on fast trails, the control is pretty good. I figured a good part was rebound when I went to the heavier oil. It's still absolutely terrible at high speeds on the heavy rocks. I run Bridgestone UHD tubes because of so many pinch flats.

The WP forks, especially 09 and newer, really do work well in these conditions with proper adjustment and springs. I was rather surprised since it seems they really didn't have a handle on it for a long time.