KTM Pampera

looks very promising....I wouldn't buy one but I know several buddies that might, non racer/entry level types.
 
No way that KTM will be as light as the 2 stroke GasGas Pampera. The beauty of the Pampera is that an average, casual riding woman can handle it in all aspects of trail riding, including picking it up and starting it. I know my wife has one, and its perfect for her.

The Ossa looks a lot more trials like, much smaller front brake, etc.

The 280i motor is cool, but just FI not DI. Still, I REALLY like the reverse cyl design on a two stroke, and the option for a rear tucked in pipe it provides. For a woods bike this would be great. You wouldn't have the heat issues like on a 4stroke with this design (Cannondale, Berg). The pipe would be high but its light, and could be made even lighter being its not exposed to the trail. A case reed design would keep the carb low. A DI design would also keep the heavier head components lower. Time to think out of the box, GG.
 
The problem with the Pampera, at least the older ones, is the frame was so bad you couldn't even ride it a half dozen times off road without failures. My wife finally gave up on hers and is riding a KTM 200.
 
At 220lbs, I don't see what the point of the KTM is. It's a 4-stroke with trials tires. Whoopee!
On the other hand, that Ossa would be a hoot to toss around. It's claimed dry weight is 163lbs!
 
mcnut said:
At 220lbs, I don't see what the point of the KTM is. It's a 4-stroke with trials tires. Whoopee!
On the other hand, that Ossa would be a hoot to toss around. It's claimed dry weight is 163lbs!
Click to expand...
Apples and oranges - two very different genres of bikes. The OSSA is like the 2stroke pampera only much lighter. It's a fill blown trials bike with a seat and large tank. If you ride trials it would make a great bike. The KTM freeride however seems to be a modern version of a Honda xr250 that's 30-40 pounds lighter. The KTM appears full size while the Ossa is trials size (4 inches shorter in length and 4 inches less in seat height). The Ossa could make an ok trail bike for slow riders that weigh less than 140 pounds but regular trail speeds and/or a bigger riders would be happier on a sturdier/bigger bike. I've tried a Pampera on regular trails and don't like it due to way too quick handling and funky gearing(trials gearing is three very close - very low gears and 2-3 higher gears).
There is one thing the new Ossa and the Freeride will have in common - both will feel underpowered when ridden at trail speeds. I'm not knocking the new Ossa or the 2stroke Pampera but they were not designed for trail riding they were designed for trials. I love trials and have a trials bike myself but it is a poor mount for normal trail riding. IMO
 
I think the Freeride market is too narrowly focused. I like the idea of an entry level enduro bike but this KTM still has a complex and expensive 4stroke engine and the overall size of the bike will be too big for many entry level riders. Now imagine the Freeride with the smaller, cheaper, and much simpler GG 4stroke side valve engine. The compact size of the side valve engine would allow for a much lower seat height. The frame could be designed with two places to mount the sub frame so seat height could be changed. The fork top clamp could be made to be reversible thereby allowing the forks to be moved up or down over a wider range. Just think how big the market would be for a 210 pound enduro bike that has an adjustable seat height of 33-36 inches and is cheap, reliable, and easy to work on.
 
gasser said:
There is one thing the new Ossa and the Freeride will have in common - both will feel underpowered when ridden at trail speeds.
Click to expand...
Until fairly recently I'm guessing more harescrambles were won on XR250's than any other bike ever made. They put out even less horsepower than the Freeride.

It's really quite annoying when some old guy with work boots and jeans riding an old XR blows right by you at a race. Yes, we do have that old guy.
 
Apples & oranges? I don't think so.
KTM is saying it's a light weight play bike. Although it may be lighter than their other 4-strokes, I wouldn't call it light. The term "entry-level" would also lead me to believe it's less-expensive than a "ready to race" bike. I'll bet it's not significantly cheaper though.
The Ossa is a light weight play bike, regardless of how it will be marketed. Serious trials riders will not consider it a trials bike, even though it is obviously
based on one.
 
We have a guy that runs an old xr200 and sometimes a 250.. would keep up and out ride everybody on our toughest trails.. worst part is the big down trees that the trails go around.. he would just go up, hop up and over..would piss everbody off.. then he went and got a ktm 200exc.. now he was very fast on it.. but not ever as good in the tight rocky technical stuff like he was on his xr's.. couldnt do the big 3-4' diameter trees without looping the ktm.. but we loved watching him try on the ktm.. there is a lot to say about a mild power bike..
My 04 450 is set up to feel softer,, and its way tamer than my buddies husky 450.. I can ride it much faster(and so can he) on the same trail as his bike.. still want a GG 250 back tho..
 
When comparing anything to a Pampera, be aware that there are different versions of Pamperas. The originals were very much like trials bikes. My wife's '02 is basically a super light EC with a trials motor and lower seat height. It has many light duty trials bike components like the wheels, but it is a woods bike platform, and even uses EC plastic. While it is light duty compared to an EC, it certainly adequate for casual trail riding. Its not a race bike, you just have to take it for what it is. Next spring hers will be ten years old, and she would never sell it. Even has an NJ plate.
 
trying to decide which bike would make a better tight single track moutain bike for my wife (novice). A 200 ktm lowered with auto clutch @ 208lbs or a pampera. what does a 2005 pampera 280 weight 225 lbs ? how much should a good used one cost,what about parts or resale value in future.
 
hard to find faults in those ktm 200's that are older than 2006 with the smaller frame, I keep one with a rekluse just for that
 
Not much lately on this thread. I'm not too familiar with Pamperas other than pics of them, but isn't KTM's Freeride more comparable to the Scorpa T-Ride? I'm even thinking they sort of stole the name.

I didn't know until recently that KTM had a non-electric Freeride model. Now I'm seeing all kinds of advertising on it making it sound like they invented the concept. To me this harkens back to 2007 when KTM's street legal enduros were plastered all over the rag covers making it sound like they invented the idea. The year before Husqvarna debuted their street legal model range over in Hancock, NY. The first modern combo enduro/trials/play bike I'm aware of is the Scorpa T-Ride, which I assume the Feeride is copied after. I'm sort of ranting on KTM more than anything else I guess and this thread gave me a good excuse. :D
 
My wife's Pampera is light, fun, but too fragile for serious use at anything over slow technical trail speeds. If I had the time, $$, and wife's permission, I'm sure I could fix that by making it more like a true EC with more EC components and beefing up the frame. What I think would be a cool bike, for serious trail riding and slower more technical racing, would be a version of their side valve 4stroke in an slightly lower (older) EC frame with basic suspension (Zoke/Sachs). That would be the GasGas answer to the KTM. Think about that, it would be easy to make the motor both light and reliable because your not going for big power. Even make it street legal but easily stripped. If you could sell it around the world and make a million it would be cheap too. Makes more business sense than a 4stroke trials bike. Maybe its time.
 
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