KTM visits Gas Gas factory

[gasgasxc]

So let me get this straight. You would rather buy a "modern" 2-stroke for an extra $2k then lower and detune it to make it have a soft manageable power delivery? Lol. Why not just buy a freeride or x-trainer that already has this done and save some money and not have to work on the bike. You are totally missing the point of these bikes. While lots of us love to tinker and work on our stuff. A large majority don't, they want to ride and some don't want to ride a full on hard hitting race bike. Think about it unless you are an A or really fast B rider you don't ride your bike anywhere near its potential. Chances are if you ride a 300 most of the time you aren't even "on the pipe". The x trainer has just as much or more power than my 300 GG up until about half throttle which is where a large majority of riders spend their time. You can argue better suspension too but the same thing holds true. How many people do you know that actually spend the time and money to respring a bike for their weight. Again most of us aren't good enough riders to even notice a difference.


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Everybody I know that races, will respring -revalve the bike if they fall out of normal suspension setting parameters.
It could be said"who" would pay $8k for a made for racing enduro motorcycle and not
set the suspension up for their weight? Suspension and tires for me is 70% of the bike.Good motor, good handling, great brakes isnt Jack didly squat unless the suspension is dialed.Its more of an ignorance thing honestly.A good suspension tuner will change the way you think.

As far as $2k less goes.Sherco X-ride is $8k?

I can say 80% of my injury crashes, the ones that really stick it in and break it off.Were either suspension or tires neglect on my part.Sometimes brakes only because I didnt change the fork seals.

 

[memphis2857]

Everybody I know that races, will respring -revalve the bike if they fall out of normal suspension setting parameters.
It could be said"who" would pay $8k for a made for racing enduro motorcycle and not
set the suspension up for their weight? Suspension and tires for me is 70% of the bike.Good motor, good handling, great brakes isnt Jack didly squat unless the suspension is dialed.Its more of an ignorance thing honestly.A good suspension tuner will change the way you think.

As far as $2k less goes.Sherco X-ride is $8k?

I can say 80% of my injury crashes, the ones that really stick it in and break it off.Were either suspension or tires neglect on my part.Sometimes brakes only because I didnt change the fork seals.

I guess you and all your racing buddies are the exception. I stand corrected.

Beta 300rr retails $8500 and the x-trainer $6900. So again I stand corrected $1600 difference.





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[gasgasxc]

Im not saying I dont want one.
Actually I do and if it was platable then I really want one.
With a kickstarter,6 speed wide ratio and winkies for $5500.

 

[gasgasxc]

I guess you and all your racing buddies are the exception. I stand corrected.

Beta 300rr retails $8500 and the x-trainer $6900. So again I stand corrected $1600 difference.





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That Gas Gas EC 300 Six Days "Race" looks good in the back of the truck.Ill give you and your buddies that.Throw in some matching gear and some White Sidis and your straight.
I hear ya man.

 

[SS109]

I guess you and all your racing buddies are the exception. I stand corrected.

Definitely not the exception as I don't know of even one guy in my entire riding club that hasn't had his suspension done and only a handful of us actually race. Most are just trail riders, from fast and wild to slow hike-a-bike technical stuff. Just saying that gasgasxc's buddies aren't the only ones.

Back on topic, the KTM possibly buying GG thing, I can see it.

KTM said when they bought Husky that they were going to develop it in to it's own line separate from the re-badged, color changed KTM that it now is. I could see new Huskies becoming just a re-badged GG. Plus, along with the GG trials bikes, it would be a win-win for KTM.

EDIT: Forgot to add, if KTM actually ends buying them, I will no longer be interested in a new GG unless they keep it a GG. However, I just don't see them doing that.

 

[GasGas]

If KTM buys GasGas the enduro side will be dead in short order. Think about it. What does GasGas really have to offer KTM on the enduro side as far as tech goes. A 20 year old boat anchor of a swing arm and a heavy motor. I guess they could rip out the page with the geometry and call it done. They will keep the trials bike line and yard sale the rest.

 

[FastFast]

Buy it for the trials section and scrap the rest, there's nothing else that GasGas has to offer that KTM isn't already doing better. KTM has the cash, the connections, and the momentum to accelerate trials into a more mainstream sport. Particularly in countries that only have a novelty interest in trials, while building the dominant brand in trials where it already is popular.

 

[gasgasxc]

Where is the street legal electric trials bike?
I mean a legit one with killer ergos, good suspension and brakes etc.

I really dont care who is buying who as long as they build me what I want.

 

[twowheels]

Im not saying I dont want one.
Actually I do and if it was platable then I really want one.
With a kickstarter,6 speed wide ratio and winkies for $5500.

There was an old expression "If wishes were Huskys even beggars would ride" ...

Speaking of Huskys, they used to sell really well at 2K less than everybody else, but now they are white KTMs and they sell for hundreds more

 

[Elvis74]

Where is the street legal electric trials bike?

I mean a legit one with killer ergos, good suspension and brakes etc.



I really dont care who is buying who as long as they build me what I want.

Shitttt

Here it is,
http://www.electric-motion.fr
It's basically a Scorpa but with electric motor



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[firffighter]

From the Beta website ... "At the end of the 1940s, with the changes that had taken pace in Italian society and the development of motorized transport, the company switched to motorcycle production." That would make this about the 65th year ... they may just last after all.

I realize Beta, as a corporation, has been in business for a very long time. My point was they haven't been a player in the US off road market for very long. They are very new in thar regard and it remains to be seen if it will last. How many bIles are they importing and selling here? It was just 5-6 years ago that they didn't even have bikes on the showroom floor, you had to order one through the BYOB program. How'd that work?

I hope they stat and are a viable player here in the US. They make a fantastic bike. It's good for us to have great choices when purchasing.

 

[firffighter]

So let me get this straight. You would rather buy a "modern" 2-stroke for an extra $2k then lower and detune it to make it have a soft manageable power delivery? Lol. Why not just buy a freeride or x-trainer that already has this done and save some money and not have to work on the bike. You are totally missing the point of these bikes. While lots of us love to tinker and work on our stuff. A large majority don't, they want to ride and some don't want to ride a full on hard hitting race bike. Think about it unless you are an A or really fast B rider you don't ride your bike anywhere near its potential. Chances are if you ride a 300 most of the time you aren't even "on the pipe". The x trainer has just as much or more power than my 300 GG up until about half throttle which is where a large majority of riders spend their time. You can argue better suspension too but the same thing holds true. How many people do you know that actually spend the time and money to respring a bike for their weight. Again most of us aren't good enough riders to even notice a difference.


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So, you are telling me you think a detuned 300, that has inferior suspension and lower cost components is worth $6000, just because you want to ride around at 1/4 throttle all day? Again, why not just buy a KDX220 then? I owned 2 of them before coming to Gasgas and they fit that description dead on!

Did you read Chilly's reviews? The XT doesn't weigh much less than a Beta or KTM 300. You really can't do you're own PV adjustment or change your own jetting to produce a softer more linear delivery on your 300? Heck, you could simply buy a .50 flat washer and place it at your exhaust opening to restrict flow and you'd produce the same type of power your looking for in an X, an old trick with introducing kids to 2-stroke power delivery . Fact is, you can make a moder 2-stroke as mild or as wild as you want with very little mechanical skills and 2 minutes ofrom research on the internet. These bikes are a huge waste of money IMO, and we'll see if this fad lasts in the market.

By the way, go over to the KTM site and follow the Freeride threads. 90% of these owners are spending more money to mod the heck out of them to make them more like a real bike. That makes a lot of sense? They all complain about a terrible stutter in the power delivery and scary inferior braking in real riding situations. Why spend that kind of money on an inferior bike? A used 300 is much cheaper and SO EASY to set up as a tight woods bike.

 

[GasGasDreamer]

.... the standard that all other trials bikes are compared too.

not really accurate.
I know GG trials owners that wont buy GG anymore because they never fix the items that fail by redesigning the bike.

 

[desertgasser300]

not really accurate.
I know GG trials owners that wont buy GG anymore because they never fix the items that fail by redesigning the bike.

That goes both ways. I know trials riders that will buy nothing but GasGas trials bikes.

Not to name drop, but one of those guys happens to be Taylor Roberts trainer. Mike "Oh my" Damm

 

[gasgasxc]

not really accurate.
I know GG trials owners that wont buy GG anymore because they never fix the items that fail by redesigning the bike.

Ok.Either way.
You get my point.
They had a pretty damn good trials bike thing going.
And now they do not.

I think KTM bikes are in general garbage throw away bikes.
They are good performers and are excellent overall for what they are designed for.
But you can absolutely clap one out, I mean tramp it badly in a very short time.
But if we were being honest they are at the top of the offroad motorcycle game.
And have been for awhile.

Hardcore KTM guys have 3 year old and newer bikes.Theres a reason for that.
Ask most serious KTM guys.I mean guys that ride the crap out of them; how many KTMs theyve owned.

Still top dog though.

 

[poelinca]

Ok.Either way.
You get my point.
They had a pretty damn good trials bike thing going.
And now they do not.

I think KTM bikes are in general garbage throw away bikes.
They are good performers and are excellent overall for what they are designed for.
But you can absolutely clap one out, I mean tramp it badly in a very short time.
But if we were being honest they are at the top of the offroad motorcycle game.
And have been for awhile.

Hardcore KTM guys have 3 year old and newer bikes.Theres a reason for that.
Ask most serious KTM guys.I mean guys that ride the crap out of them; how many KTMs theyve owned.

Still top dog though.

KTM has been at the top because of the money and strategies they have put in media/adertising/competitions/riders/bla bla, nothing more. Why do you think we hear that "Ready to race" quote more often than not ? This is the strong point where everybody else lost ground on, marketing not bikes capabilities and reliability.

Any rider can bash any kind of bike pretty quick ... it's not a matter of brand here, but maintenance and riding conditions.


p.s. one should always skeptic about a product/brand that has monopoly over the market and pumps lots of marketing bullcrap out, witch KTM has for a long time now
p.s.s. i really hope Beta can do it, it seams (at least in my country) they are putting a lot of effort into marketing ... thing i never saw so much effort from any other manufacturer, not even KTM

 

[Chaz955i]

So, you are telling me you think a detuned 300, that has inferior suspension and lower cost components is worth $6000, just because you want to ride around at 1/4 throttle all day? Again, why not just buy a KDX220 then? I owned 2 of them before coming to Gasgas and they fit that description dead on!

Did you read Chilly's reviews? The XT doesn't weigh much less than a Beta or KTM 300. You really can't do you're own PV adjustment or change your own jetting to produce a softer more linear delivery on your 300? Heck, you could simply buy a .50 flat washer and place it at your exhaust opening to restrict flow and you'd produce the same type of power your looking for in an X, an old trick with introducing kids to 2-stroke power delivery . Fact is, you can make a moder 2-stroke as mild or as wild as you want with very little mechanical skills and 2 minutes ofrom research on the internet. These bikes are a huge waste of money IMO, and we'll see if this fad lasts in the market.

By the way, go over to the KTM site and follow the Freeride threads. 90% of these owners are spending more money to mod the heck out of them to make them more like a real bike. That makes a lot of sense? They all complain about a terrible stutter in the power delivery and scary inferior braking in real riding situations. Why spend that kind of money on an inferior bike? A used 300 is much cheaper and SO EASY to set up as a tight woods bike.

Right, shocking that someone trying to convert a trail bike to a hard core off road bike would find the exercise expensive and ultimately a failure. Glad to know this. My street bike doesn't work well as a dual sport. Guess my bike sucks. SMH

 

[kneehurts]

re:

I just think when you are a small motorcycle manufacturing company with limited financial resources and you are fortunate enough to have a segment of the offroad motorcycle industry to yourself.The leader, the standard that all other trials bikes are compared too.
You do not jeopardize that by borrowing a shittload of dough and try to compete against a global giant like KTM.
Its the Germans we are talking about here.
Do your homework.
This is the number one industrial nation in the world.
Before WW1 the number one industrial nation in the world.After using all their resources in a lost cause and forced to pay back war reperations of an insane amount,.Which they did, every penny.Paid it off early.And having their hands tied by the Versais treaty.They rise again 20 years later to become the number 1 industrial nation in the world and the most technically advanced.
Unfortunately in their own way they are slow learners and get bombed back to the stone age and lose 80% of viable workforce.
After East and West unite 20 years later the number one industrial might in the world.Today.
If you are a small motorcycle manufacturing company you do not compete with that.
KTM is not a rags to riches story.
They started with deep deep pockets.

This is a people you do not underestimate.
Ask the Romans.

Austrian by name only.

The proper term would be greater Germany, although you are wrong about them being the number 1 industrialized nation. China is, with the former number 1 behind them(the US).

 

[gasgasxc]

No.
Germany is just fine.

China is a communist nation.Not an industrialized nation.
And good old America packing way too much debt.

You wanna be number 2 better pay your bills.

 

[Leo]

From a Trials rider point of view, KTM freeride is crap. Sherco X ride and (now old) GasGas pampera is OK.

KTM need GasGas because they does't know trial. Their crossover bike show that.

PS. Seems like Sherco people where in Girona too. But had a more friendly reception.