Leaking oil from nipple near left valve

[JayStallion]

Hi all,
So I had idling issues which are now sorted thanks to people on here the problem and solution are in my other thread.

http://www.gasgasrider.org/forum/showthread.php?t=25700

But now I have another issue now she is idling perfectly. I started the bike up after changing the jet needle to a (N3EG)
And putting a brand new spark plug in her (BR8ES) the recommended plug for my ec 300 2004 and after idling and bliping the throttle for 5 to 10mins I turned the bike off (using kill switch) I was happy and then I noticed oil on the floor that had come form the tube that is attached to the nipple at the front of the engine near the left valve. I also noticed my engine was mega hot, hotter than I've noticed it before.

Could anybody help me with this problem please?
Why is she really hot (I know engines get hot) but piping hot engine with a semi cold exhaust chamber.
Why is oil coming out of the nipple?

Any advice would be much appreciated

 

[(F5)]

Its supposed to. That's the drain from the powervalve.

Fold and Cable tie the hose at the end to stop water during stream crossings and open it up periodically to drain into a container.

 

[JayStallion]

Its supposed to. That's the drain from the powervalve.

Fold and Cable tie the hose at the end to stop water during stream crossings and open it up periodically to drain into a container.

OK cool so it's nothing to worry about? I will do that
Why was it like black like engine oil not 2 stroke oil and petrol?
Any ideas why the engine was piping hot? I was checking the new spark plug and realised it was to hot to touch?

Cheers for your continuous help F5, did you read I managed to sort my idle issue out thanks again

 

[swazi_matt]

OK cool so it's nothing to worry about? I will do that
Why was it like black like engine oil not 2 stroke oil and petrol?
Any ideas why the engine was piping hot? I was checking the new spark plug and realised it was to hot to touch?

Cheers for your continuous help F5, did you read I managed to sort my idle issue out thanks again

black "spooge" oil, partially burnt 2-stroke oil

 

[JayStallion]

black "spooge" oil, partially burnt 2-stroke oil

Oh right hahaha so that's what spooge is I have read it in other threads like spooge from the exhaust etc.

Cheers for your reply I'm learning loads on this forum

Is there anything you could recommend? Do I need to change anything?

 

[JayStallion]

Just a quick noob question before I turn in for the night.

Is there only 1 power valve on a ec 300 2004?

The reason why I ask this is because the vent where "spooge" is seeping out is next to/below the left valve cover and I thought the right valve was the power valve? All it shows in the diagrams I've got is, left valve cover which houses what look like bearings and left exhaust valve and on the other side of the engine right valve cover that houses cental exhaust valve and right valve and water pump bearing etc

Just to be clear it's the left vent that spooge is coming from which houses the left exhaust valve and axis bearings (whatever they are)

Much appreciate some knowledge on this please

 

[Jim Cook]

Just a quick noob question before I turn in for the night.

Is there only 1 power valve on a ec 300 2004?

The reason why I ask this is because the vent where "spooge" is seeping out is next to/below the left valve cover and I thought the right valve was the power valve? All it shows in the diagrams I've got is, left valve cover which houses what look like bearings and left exhaust valve and on the other side of the engine right valve cover that houses cental exhaust valve and right valve and water pump bearing etc

Just to be clear it's the left vent that spooge is coming from which houses the left exhaust valve and axis bearings (whatever they are)

Much appreciate some knowledge on this please

Hi Jay.
There is only one powervalve "flapper" on the 200/250/300 EC/MC Gassers. They all use the same assembly and parts.
You can see the flapper if you remove the exhaust pipe and look into the cylinder through the exhaust manifold. The powervalve "flapper" is the movable piece in the top of the exhaust port.

The powervalve (pv) assembly goes all the way across the cylinder. It has a right pv cover and a left pv cover. At low rpms, the pv assembly lets the exhaust pulse into the empty area behind the left pv cover; giving the exhaust system more volume in the "header" portion, which gives the engine more torque at low rpms. (That gummy black liquid coming out of the drain nipple is actually exhaust spooge that is a byproduct of incomplete fuel burn at low rpms.)

When the rpms raise enough for the pv governor (connected to the crankshaft) to move the linkage rod and raise the pv linkage rod (under the right pv cover) which rotates the pv assembly and moves the "flapper", two things happen.
1. The flapper's movement changes the exhaust port height (timing) to give the engine better top end power.
and
2. The rotation of the powervalve assembly closes off and isolates the left pv area from the exhaust system. (which takes the empty space under the left pv cover out of the power building equation.) Without that extra volume of space behind the left pv cover, the exhaust pipe works at it's peak efficiency for higher rpm running.
The nipple you spoke about connects to a small passage back to that empty area under the left powervalve cover; and is there to attach a hose to, so that you can drain the spooge out of the left pv area without removing the left pv cover.

If I can assist you in any way, with questions, parts book (pdf file), or shop manual (pdf file), just ask.

Good Riding and wrenching!
Jim


.

 

[JayStallion]

This is brilliant thank you, so much knowledge and really clearly written I understand the power valve now. Seriously I have watched 3 or 4 power valve YouTube vids and still didn't get it.

Jim do you have any idea why my engine could be running at a very high temp just from idling and bliping for around 5 minutes? Before when the bike wouldn't idle and I had to keep the revs on a little and blip it to warm her up and play with the idle screw she was no where near has hot.

I've bought some more coolant today because I only put a litre in 1st time starting it up and I'm aware it should of been 1.1 ltr, point 1 of a litre shouldn't have that much of an effect should it? As for the spooge is it a case of clipping the tube closed and draining periodically or could I just leave it, I don't like the thought of spooging up the woods where I ride tbh.

Another question, am I right in thinking she is running rich and that's what is causing the spooge or more spooge than normal? But I'm thinking that might be wrong and she's running to lean and that's the reason why my engine is getting extremely hot?

Headache now but I love it

Cheers everyone

 

[(F5)]

There is a limit to how much radiator and water you can carry around. With no fan and no airflow it will just keep getting hotter.

In normal use it isn't an issue. Dirtbikes don't spend hours at traffic lights.

Get on it and ride.

Never jet on how much spooge there is. There will always be incomplete combustion when you are not at peak power. Idling for example.


Jet based on how it responds to throttle.

Go enjoy it. Cover the rear brake and go practice wheelies.

 

[JayStallion]

There is a limit to how much radiator and water you can carry around. With no fan and no airflow it will just keep getting hotter.

In normal use it isn't an issue. Dirtbikes don't spend hours at traffic lights.

Get on it and ride.

Never jet on how much spooge there is. There will always be incomplete combustion when you are not at peak power. Idling for example.


Jet based on how it responds to throttle.

Go enjoy it. Cover the rear brake and go practice wheelies.

Perfect, thanks for the advice. I am taking her through the woods in a couple of weeks and taking some tools just in case I need to change the jets as you say after I ride for a bit.
I tried doing wheelies on my first run I've got some good gopro footage I'm editing it's quite funny I suck at them
When I've finished putting the video together I will post a link on here so you can have a laugh, I even go into some bushes/trees.
All good F5 thanks for your sound advice

 

[swazi_matt]

+1 on jetting for spooge. This is why the new fuel injected gasgas' (duck for cover!) have hugely varying oil/fuel mix ratios at different revs

 

[Jim Cook]

This is brilliant thank you, so much knowledge and really clearly written I understand the power valve now. Seriously I have watched 3 or 4 power valve YouTube vids and still didn't get it.

Jim do you have any idea why my engine could be running at a very high temp just from idling and bliping for around 5 minutes? Before when the bike wouldn't idle and I had to keep the revs on a little and blip it to warm her up and play with the idle screw she was no where near has hot.

I've bought some more coolant today because I only put a litre in 1st time starting it up and I'm aware it should of been 1.1 ltr, point 1 of a litre shouldn't have that much of an effect should it? As for the spooge is it a case of clipping the tube closed and draining periodically or could I just leave it, I don't like the thought of spooging up the woods where I ride tbh.

Another question, am I right in thinking she is running rich and that's what is causing the spooge or more spooge than normal? But I'm thinking that might be wrong and she's running to lean and that's the reason why my engine is getting extremely hot?

Headache now but I love it

Cheers everyone

You are welcome. Thank you for the nice words.

Regarding your cooling.
(side note: I never measure the coolant. If I have an expansion tank in operation on the bike, I lean the bike to the right and fill the left radiator to the top of the neck.
If it doesn't have an expansion tank, I fill the left radiator to halfway between the cooling coil and the filler neck. If I put in too much coolant without an expansion tank in use, it always seeks it's own full level and blows the excess out the overflow when it gets to operating temperature.)

Is it running hotter than usual all the time, or is it just getting hot much quicker than it used to?
Five minutes is a pretty long warm-up time.

Is your bike running too hot? If it is, then I suggest the following:
If your bike was running normal/cool, and is not doing so now; and if the radiator isn't clogged in any way, I would check the condition of the water pump impeller. Some of the OEM plastic/poly impellers in 2002 - 2004 had problems. That is what prompted Les Tinius Racing, and now Checkpoint Off-Road, to offer billet aluminum water pump impellers for sale.

I don't think the slow speed jetting or jet needle would cause the cylinder and head and radiator to warm up much quicker than it normally had been. I've used lots of combinations of jetting made much difference in how quickly the bike warmed up.

The bike came from the factory with a clamp pinching that spooge drain hose. Most riders take off the clamp. I raise my hose when we use the enclosed trailer for transport. (wife's orders. )
It won't hurt a thing if you choose to drain the spooge into a bucket or cup after a ride, instead of oiling the trail while you ride.
Your bike will run just fine.

 

[(F5)]

Wish I was in your area Jim. Your words are always appreciated.

 

[Gasser Nate]

Glad you got the idle sorted!
Re the excess spooge and heat, the poor old girl has been drowning in excess fuel and oil which creates an excess or spooge and also will make the motor run a lot cooler than in should. It is just running like it should finally. It will probably burn of a lot of spooge until it starts to dry out. Make sure you have enough coolant and it is circulating properly and you have a good sealing radiator cap. Gassers have an overkill for radiators. They rarely boil.
Get out on it and give it a good flogging!

 

[JayStallion]

You are welcome. Thank you for the nice words.

Regarding your cooling.
(side note: I never measure the coolant. If I have an expansion tank in operation on the bike, I lean the bike to the right and fill the left radiator to the top of the neck.
If it doesn't have an expansion tank, I fill the left radiator to halfway between the cooling coil and the filler neck. If I put in too much coolant without an expansion tank in use, it always seeks it's own full level and blows the excess out the overflow when it gets to operating temperature.)

Is it running hotter than usual all the time, or is it just getting hot much quicker than it used to?
Five minutes is a pretty long warm-up time.

Is your bike running too hot? If it is, then I suggest the following:
If your bike was running normal/cool, and is not doing so now; and if the radiator isn't clogged in any way, I would check the condition of the water pump impeller. Some of the OEM plastic/poly impellers in 2002 - 2004 had problems. That is what prompted Les Tinius Racing, and now Checkpoint Off-Road, to offer billet aluminum water pump impellers for sale.

I don't think the slow speed jetting or jet needle would cause the cylinder and head and radiator to warm up much quicker than it normally had been. I've used lots of combinations of jetting made much difference in how quickly the bike warmed up.

The bike came from the factory with a clamp pinching that spooge drain hose. Most riders take off the clamp. I raise my hose when we use the enclosed trailer for transport. (wife's orders. )
It won't hurt a thing if you choose to drain the spooge into a bucket or cup after a ride, instead of oiling the trail while you ride.
Your bike will run just fine.

Great stuff, yeah my bike has an expansion tank so I could try the leaning the bike to the right and filling her up method. Brilliant thank you.

I can not comment if it is running hot all the time as I have nowhere near me to go and ride, I'm limited. So all I have been working on when making changes is how she idles. I am set for the 16th of this month to go riding in the woods again so hopefully I will be able to answer the question.

I have read before (a long time ago) about upgrading the impeller in the water pump and you have just jogged my memory mentioning this. So thanks for that. As for the radiators I don't believe they are clogged as they are after markets (brand new) the old OEM radiators was too damaged to re use but knowing this it leads me back to poor circulation of the coolant because of the plastic impeller.

I did think it would be strange if changing the needle jet would cause the engine to run hotter. I guess 5 mins is a long idle time. Maybe now she's finally idling and having a new spark plug in she is running normal.

I will clamp the hose and drain after every ride I think, just seems more environmentally friendly some how.

Jim once again thank you not only do you give me knowledge that I appreciate so much you also give me motivation to play around with my bike (I love being a grease monkey)

 

[JayStallion]

Glad you got the idle sorted!
Re the excess spooge and heat, the poor old girl has been drowning in excess fuel and oil which creates an excess or spooge and also will make the motor run a lot cooler than in should. It is just running like it should finally. It will probably burn of a lot of spooge until it starts to dry out. Make sure you have enough coolant and it is circulating properly and you have a good sealing radiator cap. Gassers have an overkill for radiators. They rarely boil.
Get out on it and give it a good flogging!

Thank you for your reply, I'm ordering a new impeller just in case the coolant isn't circulating properly. I'm set to ride her soon so I will do, I intend to hit the power band in every gear. I will continue to monitor the spooge. Thanks Gasser Nate for you're continuous help.

 

[JayStallion]

Hello all,
So I was getting the bike ready for my ride next weekend, I put new grips on new headlight bulb etc only small things nothing to do with the carb or engine. I fired her up, she idle nice I blipped the throttle a few times and thought screw it I'm going to ride up and down my drive a few times for something to do and whilst doing so I started to hear a faint pinging sound coming from the engine so I pulled back into the garage where she idled on the stand as I put my ear to the engine to find exactly where the noise was coming from. I thought it sounded like it was coming from the water pump so I switched of the engine and let her cool for 30mins and then drained the coolant when that was done I removed the water pump cover to check the impeller everything looked fine the impeller was in good condition I slowly cranked the engine to make sure it was moving freely and all was good. Unfortunately removing the cover I damaged the gasket so I will order one in the morning but I am left wondering tonight what's going on with the engine why is it getting super freaking hot when only riding for 5 mins and now why is she pinging and do they coincide with each other.
Any thoughts you guys may have would be much appreciated.
Jay

 

[gasser]

Getting hot quickly and pinging - I would replace and/or check the spark plug. These 2stroke gassers take a NGK B8 plug (I don't think the additional letters matter much). I went to pick up a couple at my local auto supply and they were out so they substituted an Autolite plug that they showed being the same. It did look the same on the outside but when I measured the insulator length it was was obvious that the plug had a much hotter heat range. I didn't use it - doing so could have burnt a hole in the top of my piston. I don't trust these charts that show replacement plugs. I've even had one NGK that was mismarked on the plug. To check the heat range insert a small wire into the plug end. When it bottoms out bend it over to mark the length. Do the same with a NGK b8 (or two) and compare. If one measures longer than the other that plug has a hotter heat range.

 

[JayStallion]

Getting hot quickly and pinging - I would replace and/or check the spark plug. These 2stroke gassers take a NGK B8 plug (I don't think the additional letters matter much). I went to pick up a couple at my local auto supply and they were out so they substituted an Autolite plug that they showed being the same. It did look the same on the outside but when I measured the insulator length it was was obvious that the plug had a much hotter heat range. I didn't use it - doing so could have burnt a hole in the top of my piston. I don't trust these charts that show replacement plugs. I've even had one NGK that was mismarked on the plug. To check the heat range insert a small wire into the plug end. When it bottoms out bend it over to mark the length. Do the same with a NGK b8 (or two) and compare. If one measures longer than the other that plug has a hotter heat range.

This is interesting because now that I think about it this only started happening after I changed the spark plug and needle jet and as it is getting ridiculously hot quickly from just idling I can rule out the needle jet being the cause.

I replaced the old spark plug NGK (BR8ES) with a brand new NGK (BR8ES) and put them side by side to compare before installing.

I have now read from the seller that incorrect torque for example "Under-torqued*spark plugs do not make full contact with the cylinder head which reduces the plug?s ability to transfer heat out of the combustion chamber, this results in elevated combustion temperatures and as such can cause pre-ignition and detonation".
Also
"Compressed air should be used to clean the area around the existing spark plugs before removal. Torqueing the new spark plugs up against any form of debris and build-up in the threads may prevent the plugs from making full contact with the cylinder head, even if a torque wrench indicates otherwise. This can cause poor heat dissipation which leads to higher cylinder temperatures, possibly causing pre-ignition or detonation".

Has anyone come across this? as it's leading me to believe this is why my engine is piping hot after a minute or 2 idling.

Thanks for your reply Gasser

 

[(F5)]

They are mechanically noisy engines. They have a power valve rattling around with the governor on that side.

Put some earplugs in and go ride it on the trail. You'll drive yourself neurotic over thinking about stuff.

And stop idling for extended periods. Its not a city car.