Lets clear up clutch crossover

[kendunn]

Lots of conflicting info on here as to what will and won't work on the GG as far as clutch replacement. Mine is starting to slip and was looking at brands/crossover options. Why don't you post what you are running and how it work and any mods you had to do. This is very interesting, but adds to the confusion-
http://www.barnettclutches.com/search/results.aspx?cmd=showresults&prod_pn=301-48-10001

From what I have read looks like the best bet is to get the 3mm plates (GG is 2.7mm) with a thinner thrust washer (1.5mm, supposedly one off a Kawasaki will work, would someone post the exact model?) to make up the difference as the 2.7mm aftermarket are prone to breaking. How is this working out for folks?

 

[iancp5]

Is it that hard to get GG plates in parts of the world? In the UK I just pick up the phone and any GG dealer has them.

 

[stainlesscycle]

From what I have read looks like the best bet is to get the 3mm plates (GG is 2.7mm) with a thinner thrust washer (1.5mm, supposedly one off a Kawasaki will work, would someone post the exact model?) to make up the difference as the 2.7mm aftermarket are prone to breaking. How is this working out for folks?

this is what i did. i milled the inner thrust washer to 1.5, there is a kawasaki one, i researched it by googling the size of the thrust you need - can't seem to find it now. 22.1x42x1.5 is basically what you want. . switched to cr250 plates and frictions for about $50.00. i also switched to 0w-50 amsoil. no drag, no broken plates, easier to find neutral.....
when you're in there, check the rivets for the cush drive on basket... i switched to bolts and have had no problems.

 

[kendunn]

Is it that hard to get GG plates in parts of the world? In the UK I just pick up the phone and any GG dealer has them.

Its a whole lot easier to turn loose of $50 for an aftermarket than $325 for an OEM kit.

 

[kendunn]

this is what i did. i milled the inner thrust washer to 1.5, there is a kawasaki one, i researched it by googling the size of the thrust you need - can't seem to find it now. 22.1x42x1.5 is basically what you want. . switched to cr250 plates and frictions for about $50.00. i also switched to 0w-50 amsoil. no drag, no broken plates, easier to find neutral.....
when you're in there, check the rivets for the cush drive on basket... i switched to bolts and have had no problems.

If I remember right you went with the Tusk steel and fiber from Rocky Mountain, right? What year CR's fit?

 

[iancp5]

Its a whole lot easier to turn loose of $50 for an aftermarket than $325 for an OEM kit.

Luckily here the GG ones are the same as Honda etc in cost and certainly no where near $325 US, more like GBP 50 which is maybe $75

 

[Qui-gon]

Are you sure they are only 50 quid? If so I will get a set while I am back here! I cant believe something is actually cheaper in the uk!

 

[stainlesscycle]

If I remember right you went with the Tusk steel and fiber from Rocky Mountain, right? What year CR's fit?

i believe 94 to 02 and maybe newer fit, but i ordered 1997...
it was $44.99 for the whole deal.

 

[kendunn]

i believe 94 to 02 and maybe newer fit, but i ordered 1997...
it was $44.99 for the whole deal.

Looks like they are the same parts but different quantities, pre 90 only used 7 friction plates and 90 up used 8 (which is what we need). There is a difference in metal plates on 97 up, it looks like it has 2 different type of plates in the stack, two steel and 5 aluminum. Not sure why.

I looked back at one of your earlier posts and you had a Suzuki part listed for the washer, but it seemed like the wrong one on the fiche. You had it listed as a 08211-22423 but looks like on the diagram a 09180-22045 is a closer match, is this correct? Can be seen at
http://www.cheapcycleparts.com/model_years/4248-suzuki-2003-eiger-4wd-LT-F400F/assemblies/115472

 

[stainlesscycle]

that washer 09180-22045 is 22.1x45x? 45mm o.d. is probably fine, but i can't find the thickness. if someone has a local friendly suzuki shop, you could probably stop by and measure it....

can't remember how i looked up that thrust washer...

can you direct me to the old thread (can't seem to find it...) maybe it will refresh my memory.

 

[kendunn]

that washer 09180-22045 is 22.1x45x? 45mm o.d. is probably fine, but i can't find the thickness. if someone has a local friendly suzuki shop, you could probably stop by and measure it....

can't remember how i looked up that thrust washer...

can you direct me to the old thread (can't seem to find it...) maybe it will refresh my memory.

Have a look at this thread....
http://www.gasgasrider.org/forum/showthread.php?t=7374&highlight=08211-22423&page=2

I tried to look up the size with no luck, something I love about GG (measurements on parts). Called my local dealer and no luck

 

[stainlesscycle]

as long as it's between 1.5 and 2 it will work. at 2mm my clutch dragged a bit, i re-milled the thrust down to 1.5 (i think) and it stopped dragging....i have not had to mess with my clutch since. i was into it after every race until i did this mod....

 

[dank]

alright so let me summarize and see if i got this right. the plates from a late 90's honda cr250 will fit, but the frictions are the wrong thickness. and to remedy this, you get a thrust washer that is 1.5ish mm thick. is this correct? also does anybody know if a different manufacturers basket will work? i cannot find an aftermarket for mine, and i bought a used one, but its only a matter of time before that one gets grooved too.

 

[stainlesscycle]

alright so let me summarize and see if i got this right. the plates from a late 90's honda cr250 will fit, but the frictions are the wrong thickness. and to remedy this, you get a thrust washer that is 1.5ish mm thick. is this correct?

correct. you replace the 2.7mm thick one with one that is 1.5mm thick.

also does anybody know if a different manufacturers basket will work? i cannot find an aftermarket for mine, and i bought a used one, but its only a matter of time before that one gets grooved too.

you can rejuvenate the basket by filing the fingers. but that adds play to the frictions, which causes the basket to wear faster (and possibly break frictions...)... anyways, you can go quite a long time on a basket until it's too abused to run...
i'm assuming i can do 50+ races before my basket is worn out, and i abuse the clutch, if that's what it takes...... i'm guessing that's probably equivalent to 1000 hours trail riding...

 

[kendunn]

alright so let me summarize and see if i got this right. the plates from a late 90's honda cr250 will fit, but the frictions are the wrong thickness. and to remedy this, you get a thrust washer that is 1.5ish mm thick. is this correct? also does anybody know if a different manufacturers basket will work? i cannot find an aftermarket for mine, and i bought a used one, but its only a matter of time before that one gets grooved too.

I ordered a kit for a 90-97 CR250R (Tusk brand, $45 from Rocky Mtn) because anything after that had two different metal plates, 5 were steel and 2 aluminum. I don't know how this would work in a GG, but I thought it better to stick with all steel. Also it has springs which will also (fingers crossed) work. I have heard the CR clutch baskets may work, but not sure. Seems like a long shot with the gear teeth, but who knows. Also I think you run into clearance issues and have to stack gaskets.

I am hoping to find a thrust washer (may even try a plain ol' washer, I guess its just softer??? could use it to test anyways) that will work because I hate to do something irreversible to my stock parts. Stupid washer from Gofasters would be around $40 with shipping, that is robbery, especially considering the Jap crossover is $3.

My kit should be here before the weekend and will post what I find. I hate it when people start these threads and then leave you hanging when they figure it out but don't post.

 

[stainlesscycle]

I am hoping to find a thrust washer (may even try a plain ol' washer, I guess its just softer??? could use it to test anyways) that will work because I hate to do something irreversible to my stock parts.

plain old washer and thrust washer are significantly different. most thrust washers are porous and impregnated with lubricating substance... also a thrust washer is load/velocity rated, and machined to a higher tolerance. plain old washers are just stamped....

the only critical measurement is 22.1mm i.d. - o.d. can be 42-45, and thickness can be 1.5 to 2mm..

if you convert all this to inches, you will find a .75"x1.75"x.0625" thrust washer will work almost perfect - you would just need to bore the i.d from .75 to 22.1mm

this thrust washer is probably $1 at mcmaster.com

any machinist could bore a 22.1mm hole for a few dollars..


it's harder to machine the original thrust washer down to 1.5mm - the magnetic chuck doesn't work well with this material for some reason. it wanted to keep moving, and i wasn't gonna build a fixture for that little washer...

 

[dank]

you can rejuvenate the basket by filing the fingers. but that adds play to the frictions, which causes the basket to wear faster (and possibly break frictions...)... anyways, you can go quite a long time on a basket until it's too abused to run...
i'm assuming i can do 50+ races before my basket is worn out, and i abuse the clutch, if that's what it takes...... i'm guessing that's probably equivalent to 1000 hours trail riding...[/QUOTE]

call me anal if you like, but i would rather not shatter a friction. i did buy a used basket that is in better condition than my own, which will suffice for now.

 

[stainlesscycle]

call me anal if you like, but i would rather not shatter a friction. i did buy a used basket that is in better condition than my own, which will suffice for now.

when the friction plate breaks, it's not a big deal (they don't shatter - they just break into 3 or 4 big pieces - usually..), they stay in the basket (the steels hold them in..)....just do a thorough engine flush and replace. you may not even know the plate has broken....clutch will usually still engage, just drag bad on disengagement.

 

[iancp5]

Are you sure they are only 50 quid? If so I will get a set while I am back here! I cant believe something is actually cheaper in the uk!

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/CLUTCH-FRICTI...323963&cguid=85dd77af12a0a0e202707790ff8d8ab4


http://www.trialendurodirect.com/index.php?cPath=15_17&page=2

But any Gas Gas dealer should be able to sort you out. Last set I bought from a dealer were about the same price. Maybe they don't get them from the factory. Either way they worked fine and didn't need any modification. If the DP ones are as good as their brake pads they should be excellent.

 

[stainlesscycle]

i cannot find an aftermarket for mine, and i bought a used one, but its only a matter of time before that one gets grooved too.

s3 makes a basket .

http://www.trialendurodirect.com/products/15_17/S3_CLUTCH_BASKET_for_GG_EC_models_875.html