Local Race


I have nothing to say about sandbagging I don't do it and it pisses me off to see it.

You made a good post till the snide remarks about "Don't go there with me". Don't care who you was talking to. A comment about "It's a miracle! You and I actually agree on something. Lol" seems a little humorous and light heart'd, while puffing your chest out and saying "In other words.I wouldn't go there with me". Followed with "That doesn't concern you. Better to stay focused on the topic". Your right, nothing productive is coming from us talking anymore about this topic.

This whole post was started about me not being ready to race a local event that was right down the road.
 
Personally...I think most here need to turn off the computer and go ride their motorcycles more often. Sure worked for me today. Put in a few fun laps on the grass track....and I'm still grinning.
 
Rod Overstreet said:
Personally...I think most here need to turn off the computer and go ride their motorcycles more often. Sure worked for me today. Put in a few fun laps on the grass track....and I'm still grinning.
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I'm broke right now...lol.....Need to let shoulder heal, sad I know...:eek:
 
Rod Overstreet said:
That's makes 2 of us flat broke! Whats up with the shoulder?
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I tweaked it, went to the Dr. She lifted my arm on her own and I had zero pain, but when I lift my arm there is considerable pain. So she referred me to Ortho, I go right after Thanksgiving. So we will see, I hope an MRI is in the future. This has been an ongoing issue since OEF 10-11, figured it would give out sooner or later. No since in babying it and not having any fun, right?!:eek:
 
12Bravo said:
I tweaked it, went to the Dr. She lifted my arm on her own and I had zero pain, but when I lift my arm there is considerable pain. So she referred me to Ortho, I go right after Thanksgiving. So we will see, I hope an MRI is in the future. This has been an ongoing issue since OEF 10-11, figured it would give out sooner or later. No since in babying it and not having any fun, right?!:eek:
Click to expand...
Well...get healthy and let me know when your ready to ride.
 
Rod Overstreet said:
Personally...I think most here need to turn off the computer and go ride their motorcycles more often. Sure worked for me today. Put in a few fun laps on the grass track....and I'm still grinning.
Click to expand...


I rode today! Got a little hitch in my step now. . Forgot how slick it gets when the leaves fall and hold the moisture in that old nasty black topsoil.


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memphis2857 said:
I rode today! Got a little hitch in my step now. . Forgot how slick it gets when the leaves fall and hold the moisture in that old nasty black topsoil.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Careful, ditches full of water with leaves on top look like solid ground this season ... i know for a fact because i experienced it :D

Better to ride softwood forests if possible :cool:
 
I don't know how it works on the national level, but on the east coast we ride in the ECEA, which is an AMA sanctioned organization. Sandbagging is the norm. The ECEA works by season points. So you have to mass a specific number of points by the end of the season to move up a class. It is not even done at the ECEA level, but according to the AMA. Unfortunately unless you have the intent to race the entire season for points and do well at each event, you will not move up.

So, the same guys have been winning a handful of their local events at each race EVERY year in the C class and because they don't compete in the entire series across the region, they never move up. I have seen the same winners in C class at specific events going back 5 years (or more).

To prove this point, I had a buddy of mine from out of region, who is a smoking fast top B rider, race one of our events in his respective class in C. He was unable to crack the top 5 or the top 50 overall in C.
 
95jersey said:
I don't know how it works on the national level, but on the east coast we ride in the ECEA, which is an AMA sanctioned organization. Sandbagging is the norm. The ECEA works by season points. So you have to mass a specific number of points by the end of the season to move up a class. It is not even done at the ECEA level, but according to the AMA. Unfortunately unless you have the intent to race the entire season for points and do well at each event, you will not move up.

So, the same guys have been winning a handful of their local events at each race EVERY year in the C class and because they don't compete in the entire series across the region, they never move up. I have seen the same winners in C class at specific events going back 5 years (or more).

To prove this point, I had a buddy of mine from out of region, who is a smoking fast top B rider, race one of our events in his respective class in C. He was unable to crack the top 5 or the top 50 overall in C.
Click to expand...

Good insight. Wonder how the SETRA works? That is the series I want to partake in next year.

Anyone part of the SETRA series and have experience with this topic?
 
12Bravo said:
Good insight. Wonder how the SETRA works? That is the series I want to partake in next year.

Anyone part of the SETRA series and have experience with this topic?
Click to expand...
Ummmmmm....I would. SE&TRA uses (or did use) a percentage calculation to determine your skill level, that only a NASA scientist can figure out, but in the short term....they have guys who started in in 200C some 20 years ago, and are now riding Super Senior / Master C. I haven't ridden a SE&TRA event in a long time. Perhaps they changed it.
 
Sand bagging is as old as the hills.
Most of the sandbagging, complaining, cheating and just generally crying and pita bullshit come from the lower amateur classes.
All I can say is things get better the faster you go.

95 jersey brings up an excellent example.
That happens.And for a guy doing a whole series in a race environment in an association with those kind of ethics, it's gonna suck.Because he will run into that at every race.
It's also a landslide effect.Sandbaggers dump down from one class to the next and displace the top guys in each class.It happens.

But it is rarer then people think.
And again the faster you go the better it gets.

I've always been frustrated with the C D and B class mentalities overall.
There is a huge disparity between these classed depending on location.
What's the benchmark?? What's the level?? Who decides??

So each series and association will be different.
The reality is, those are slower classes.
Some people wouldn't even consider the times we see coming out of these classes as racing.
They are classes for guys who want to have fun don't take it. to seriously but still crave some competition.They are builder classes for some especially younger riders.
Vet classes have their own issues at that level.
And they are good trail hazards and part of course design for lappers passing through these classes.

The point is.Have fun , race your hardest but let faster riders by, don't take people out and forget about all that crap.
 
I've no issues with "sandbaggers" as long as a person isn't outright circumventing the rules to race a specific class. My view is if you don't like it then beat them. Artificially diluting a class by picking an arbitrary number to force the talent out is, to me, no more sporting than intentionally running an easy class to pick off wins. Not that this applies to anyone here but in my life the people that complain the most about "sandbaggers" wouldn't win anyway. Just another in a list of nonsense excuses as to why they can't get it done. Same story in any type of competition I've been part of. Some people are just like that. Not bad people, they just handle success and failure a bit differently than others.
 
95jersey said:
I don't know how it works on the national level, but on the east coast we ride in the ECEA, which is an AMA sanctioned organization. Sandbagging is the norm. The ECEA works by season points. So you have to mass a specific number of points by the end of the season to move up a class. It is not even done at the ECEA level, but according to the AMA. Unfortunately unless you have the intent to race the entire season for points and do well at each event, you will not move up.



So, the same guys have been winning a handful of their local events at each race EVERY year in the C class and because they don't compete in the entire series across the region, they never move up. I have seen the same winners in C class at specific events going back 5 years (or more).



To prove this point, I had a buddy of mine from out of region, who is a smoking fast top B rider, race one of our events in his respective class in C. He was unable to crack the top 5 or the top 50 overall in C.
Click to expand...


The AMA advance,net system is jacked up and they don't monitor the classes at all. This is where it falls on you. If someone is sandbagging in your local AMA series send them an email and they will take action. There is a points averaging system in place to where if you earn an average of 15 advancement points over any number of races in a C class you are advanced to the C class. Take me for example. I did 5 AMA sanctioned events in 2015. All of them I raced in +30C class. I won 2, finished 2nd twice, and got a 3rd at the ironman. My average advancement points earned was 16.4 so I will be advanced to the B class next year automatically. Thing is I just about bet I could enter every AMA race next year in the C class and nobody would notice because it's near impossible for them to monitor it. Did you know you can look up each and every AMA members race results? It even tells you what class they are suppose to be in and will show you all their race results over the last 4 years. So if you think there is a sandbagger in your class or series just look up their name and see if they are riding where they should be. If not send the AMA an email and they will disqualify this person and inform them that they are not riding in the right class. Trust me I did it this year when a B rider was racing for a national title in the +30C class in the National Enduro series. They took all his results for the year. So my message is this. If there is a sandbagger and he/she is affecting your racing there is plenty that can be done.


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Chaz955i said:
I've no issues with "sandbaggers" as long as a person isn't outright circumventing the rules to race a specific class. My view is if you don't like it then beat them. Artificially diluting a class by picking an arbitrary number to force the talent out is, to me, no more sporting than intentionally running an easy class to pick off wins. Not that this applies to anyone here but in my life the people that complain the most about "sandbaggers" wouldn't win anyway. Just another in a list of nonsense excuses as to why they can't get it done. Same story in any type of competition I've been part of. Some people are just like that. Not bad people, they just handle success and failure a bit differently than others.
Click to expand...

I partially agree with you. I have taken the positive attitude that I will keep working at it until I can beat them regardless of whether they are really an B or A rider sandbagging in the C class.

However, the C class is a beginner class. According to the AMA, it is a class for those who has just started racing or may have a couple years of racing experience. When you have guys that do a handful of races each year and consistently place top 3 over a 5 year period, but don't race enough to accumulate the percentage points to move up (nor have a desire), it gets frustrating for the newbies who would like to compete with folks of similar skill level. Also, our C class morning race far outnumbers both Pro, A&B classes combined, and then add another 100-200 riders. on top of that. So that shows you the amount of people staying in C class. I wonder if not moving people up isn't done on purpose to keep the field purposely more manageable in Pro, A & B? We have 500-800 racers at any given event, so space is very limited.

Even though I have been riding bikes for a while I just started racing in 2014. I have slowly progressed from mid pack to top ten finishes. I also only do a few events a year, so that is part of my problem. I hope next year (3rd year), I can crack the top 5 and will not get discouraged.
 
95jersey said:
I partially agree with you. I have taken the positive attitude that I will keep working at it until I can beat them regardless of whether they are really an B or A rider sandbagging in the C class.

However, the C class is a beginner class. According to the AMA, it is a class for those who has just started racing or may have a couple years of racing experience. When you have guys that do a handful of races each year and consistently place top 3 over a 5 year period, but don't race enough to accumulate the percentage points to move up (nor have a desire), it gets frustrating for the newbies who would like to compete with folks of similar skill level. Also, our C class morning race far outnumbers both Pro, A&B classes combined, and then add another 100-200 riders. on top of that. So that shows you the amount of people staying in C class. I wonder if not moving people up isn't done on purpose to keep the field purposely more manageable in Pro, A & B? We have 500-800 racers at any given event, so space is very limited.

Even though I have been riding bikes for a while I just started racing in 2014. I have slowly progressed from mid pack to top ten finishes. I also only do a few events a year, so that is part of my problem. I hope next year (3rd year), I can crack the top 5 and will not get discouraged.
Click to expand...

I can see that. If there is a class that is "Beginner" there should be some type of metric to keep the non beginners (however that is defined) out. Sounds like the head counts at your events aren't an issue so unless the complaints start getting very vocal and regular I doubt they change a thing. It is a tough issue to solve because for a lot of people it isn't an issue at all. All that said good for you. It sounds like your are progressing at a good rate and having fun doing it.
 
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