My 50 Year Old Birthday Present - Sept 2006

[Mark Tracy]

I think I got the semi-green light to buy a new bike in September from my wife. Currently I am riding a 2005 KTM 300 EXC which is a fine machine and a pretty decent standard to base my new bike choice on. I have pretty much zero'd in on a 2007 GG 300. That said the discussions on 2 strokes and their future is a bit perplexing. I would buy a 300 to 350 4 stroke with little hesitation, however none exist. The new KTM 250 EXC-F has been getting great reviews, but I just don't want to "scream" a 250F. That said a 300 - 350 bore/stroker kit adds another $1500 -$ 3000 depending on who you talk to and has not been proven reliable to my knowledge. Below is a GG works bike comparison against my KTM as my work sheet and hopefully for your amusement. "+" means positive, "-" negative, and >> general stuff. Feel free to comment, as I value this forums input.

+ Nice full length plastic frame guards
+ Incorporated rear brake reservoir - Nissan!
+ Folding break pedal tip
+ Olins rear shock!
+ On the fly ignition map switch (sun and rain mode)
+ Master link kickstand spring - believe it or not, I was the originator of that back in 99
+ Like the braking SOLID rear rotor (the one off my KTM will fit a GG and is like new)
+ Very cool , our own GP's, GP radiator braces
+ Very thin ergo and tank (KTM not too good here IMO)
+ Yes, I agree the adjustable PV is very, very cool (my KTM has a screw and alternate spring replacement adjust that makes a huge difference in the power output - that said the G2 Ergo throttle kind of does the same thing and wil retrofit off my KTM to a GG).
+ YEAH!!! No Torx head screws on the kick starter
+ Extra Radiator length added?

- Same break pivot bolt bushing with single capture on the frame - KTM far superior with 2 ball bearings and 2 sided capture
- Soft foot pegs??? No stainless? - one works bike has nice CNC pegs ---- Pivot Pegz for me
- Sorry I hate that antique chain guard, my EC 300 hit a root and bent all the way forward some how - also I see wear on the nylon - KTM with the aluminum chain cage removed or TM works wins here. I think the 07 have a true plastic?
- Black painted Olin forks (you can see the paint wear and the gold Olins)
- The age old question - are the Olins really better than the new Marzochi forks??? Factory riders think so
- No zerk fittings on the shock like - Husqvarna has a really nice zerk setup on the linkage
- I hated rebuilding the linkage on the GG and the porr sealing system

> NO STEERING DAMPENER on the factory bikes??? I think Eric has something going with the tighter Steering Stem Bearing. I think it would be best for me not to fit a dampener on - at leats until the suspension is tunned.
> The rear break P clip or cotter pin has me baffled - I thought it was a threaded Allen head? KTM wins hear with 2 simple "P" clips...
> Do you really need an in line radiator cooler? Logically it would help.
> Painted black swing arm - I like the natural
> I prefer Ironman sprocket over a Tri-metal Sidewinder
> I see the silicone in the shift tip - I did this to keep the pivot rivet from elongating the shifter attach point due to vibration/mud --- it will still bend back if hit
> The torsion spring on the chain adjuster ???

 

[Eric K]

Mark,

Take that green light and GO! Good luck!

More input, GasGas compared to KTM...

+ Shiver forks do an awesome job for me. They are far better than WP.
+ versatility and performance of the linkage suspension with the Ohlins shock.
+ outstanding GasGas handling, cornering and stability.

- Soft foot pegs - Get the real pegs you want.
- Chain guard - Get an LTR chain guide and go ride.
- I hated rebuilding the linkage on the GG and the porr(sp?) sealing system - I also hate the rebuilding the linkage. The new seals are much better. Keys to longevity and avoiding rebuilds... Use a good moly grease when new. Periodically regrease. Don't directly pressure wash or hose down the linkage bearings or swingarm bearings. Don't get solvents or fuel on or near the bearings as they quickly wash out the grease.

> NO STEERING DAMPENER on the factory bikes - Keep in mind the GasGas is inherently more stable. I suggest that you first tighten up the Steering Stem Bearing and see how it works. If that doesn't work for you, then go spend your money on a damper.
> Do you really need an in line radiator cooler - The GasGas 2 stroke is very tough to overheat. If you run really slow, hard climbs you may be prone to overheating. My solution is to use Evans waterless coolant. I haven't lost a drop of coolant in the gnarliest, low speed climbs on hot days.
> I prefer Ironman sprocket over a Tri-metal Sidewinder. - Ironman is far superior. My conclusion was clearly influenced by a very poor quality Tri-metal sprocket with soft teeth.

 

[jeffd]

Hey Mark,

Wow, I had no idea you were so... um... well... mature.

I don't think you need to worry about the black swingarm. I think that is one of the magnesium swingarms that the factory rider's use to drop a few pounds off the bike. These are checked out to the factory riders - I don't think the average guy could get one at any price - and if you could get one, I don't think you would mind it being black!

BTW - the evans coolant doesn't boil and doesn't expand - but it doesn't transfer heat as well as water either... You can run a lower pressure cap and it does make the cooling system less prone to failure. However, the engine temp may be hotter when running evans and it wouldn't be apparent to you.

jeff

 

[Eric K]

BTW - the evans coolant doesn't boil and doesn't expand - but it doesn't transfer heat as well as water either... You can run a lower pressure cap and it does make the cooling system less prone to failure. However, the engine temp may be hotter when running evans and it wouldn't be apparent to you.

jeff

Evans coolant does expand quite a bit. Adequate expansion space needs to be provided.

Evans coolant will boil at high temps (375F for NPG+ and 400F for NPGR).

With Evans coolant, the engine temp will run a slightly hotter under normal operation. Where Evans works much better than conventional coolants is when you get hot enough to boil conventional coolants and create steam pockets. The steam pockets act like insulators and reduce cooling system heat transfer. Evans coolant remains a liquid at the high temps continuing to provide effective liquid cooling.

 

[MattR]

Mark,

How does it feel to be half a century old? ha, ha... just joking.
I noticed your comparison was referring to the GasGas works bikes. Are you planning on buying one of the bikes Berkyboy is selling? I think the GasGas team would strip off some of those mods (like the magnesium swingarm). You will love a GG 300 (either works or plain-jane setup). GasGas makes the best 2-strokes! You won't regret it.

 

[gasgasman]

Mark had a GG 300............But,you know the "herd" mentality?

Actually, Mark is celebrating the 24th anniversary of his 26th birthday.

 

[JTT]

Mark had a GG 300............But,you know the "herd" mentality?

Hey Mark, for what it's worth the linkage seals must have improved drastically since you had your 300. I can from Japanese bikes and the linkage on my 2003 is virtually maintenance free compared to my old Hondas. I haven't had to live with a linkageless PDS system...but hopefully never have to

 

[GMP]

Original linkage parts on my '03. This season I replaced the seals with the orings used on the newer bikes, they seal tighter than the seals.

I rode a friends KTM300 two weeks ago. Its been awhile and I was reminded how crappy they feel in the rocks.

The Evans is great stuff for a 4-stroke, its one of the first things I would do. Made my Cannondale ridable in the woods. It makes the engine run a little hotter, but the key is no hot spots, as Eric explaned. The 'Dale's ECM would shut the bike off if the head temp got too hot, and that never happened, even on multiple attempts of steep climbs. All components run approx the same temp, and the system pressure is very low. When you boil conventional coolant, you boil it in the motor, not the radiator, creating gas pockets and hot spots. This is more dangerous than a slightly higher even temperature. On the 2-stroke its not neccessary, IMO. I've had no issues at all with either standard coolant mix with Water Wetter, or Engine Ice. Just run a 1.4 bar KTM cap, even 50/50 coolant/water with no additives should be fine.

 

[Mark Tracy]

Thanks for the upbeat and positive comments!!!

Yep, it is quite surprising even to me I am turning 50 - I've been riding dirt bikes since I was 13. Off road riding keeps you young, is a great workout, really minimizes stress, which we all have, and -still- is a great deal of fun. I figure I can gat a slight advantage in the over 50 B class :0 -maybe -, some of those guys are still rockets, you have seen them.

The linkageless KTM has been quite maintenance free with a decent pivot works bearing, I am glad to hear about the 'O' ring seal as those cupped seals were not the greatest. Way back when on the Smackover forum adding zerk fitting was discussd, a la Husqvarna, and was tried with little success, likely the same holds true now. I really believe in the zerks as my Husky linkage looked new after 6 months of riding - I just greased it after every wash - nice.

Totally agree, the sweet Gas Gas handling, ergo, etc. that is why a 07 300 is on the top of my list - Dirt' Rider's Jimmy Lewis ran one in the Ensburg (sp?) torture race, but it was a 250, that says a lot IMO.

I really am not concerned with over heating a GG, especially with the overflow tank. In the hottest Texas summers I never over heated my EC250, XC 300, or the 300 EXC - only that dang RMX. I run Moose Juice or what-ever.

A works bike would be cool, but I'll stick with an 07 production version, beside I want some of the fun modifying the bike .

IMO, the swing arm is not magnesium, perhaps it is? The special edition GG Trails bike do have a "mag" swing arm and a very special coating. I work with die casted mag parts for my occupation, and I am a bit leery about it on a swing arm. The reason being just last week end my KTM swing arm was submerged in a creek - as I pushed it up I watched water stream out of the drain holes (I drilled them in , they are now stock on KTM's) at the back base of the swingarm. Magnesium is a less noble material on the galvanic corrosion scale, and I would be concerned with durability and corrosion, but then again it would be a 1/3 lighter and I just may be over reactive.

The Shiver forks were on my TE 250 Husky - they were OK, then Les at LTR valved them and they were nice. Les also did my WP forks on my KTM and they are better than the Shiver IMO, but I do have some air cells (they get taken off before the KTM is sold) so maybe that's the reason. The Shiver forks on the TE did not have the coating - the newer versions are likely better.

Foot pegs will be Pivot Pegz - see product reviews.

Later,

 

[tm_enduro]

I would buy a 300 to 350 4 stroke with little hesitation, however none exist. The new KTM 250 EXC-F has been getting great reviews, but I just don't want to "scream" a 250F. That said a 300 - 350 bore/stroker kit adds another $1500 -$ 3000 depending on who you talk to and has not been proven reliable to my knowledge.

BUT, there are a few Husaberg fe380's running around. Husaberg offers a 380cc piston and sleeve kit for the fe450 to make a easier to ride bike, I don't know the cost.

 

[wise old man]

Hey Mark you sound just like me although you do have a couple of years on me 7 to be exact. I live in Australia and my wife has also given approval for a new bike after a long break. I am trying to decide between Gas Gas ec 300 and Ktm exc 300 the gas gas is only small in Aus everyone has a KTM in his garage I saw my first gas gas in the flesh yesterday and was very impressed coming from a ktm to the gas gas why? do you feel it is a better bike are the gas gas a good reliable bike in the US. This forum is great I have found out so much about the gas gas since finding it.

Andrew.

 

[Mark Tracy]

Hey Mark you sound just like me although you do have a couple of years on me 7 to be exact. I live in Australia and my wife has also given approval for a new bike after a long break. I am trying to decide between Gas Gas ec 300 and Ktm exc 300 the gas gas is only small in Aus everyone has a KTM in his garage I saw my first gas gas in the flesh yesterday and was very impressed coming from a ktm to the gas gas why? do you feel it is a better bike are the gas gas a good reliable bike in the US. This forum is great I have found out so much about the gas gas since finding it.

Andrew.

Hello Andrew - it is a great when my wife says OK - go for it!!! For me, it must have been the new tile we had installed which she really likes.

Well you can't go wrong with a KTM for durability/relability - in S/E Texas it is usually a sea of orange KTM's, most of my friends are back on 2 strokes too. KTM wins a lot of USA off road events including GNCC and Enduros. In my opinion the KTM takes quite a bit of set up in the suspension department - mine, 05 300 handles massive tree roots great and likely would work in rocks too. I had Les at LTR do the front WP and have air cells - very nice! I had the "Terry Hay" telescopic PDS shock needle installed (Terry is from your "Oz") and again very nice - also had to add stiffer fork springs and a progressive rear shock - I the average rider at 5'10" and 175 lbs. Resale value is excellent, the Gas Gas not to good in states as far as re-sale. The GG is likely better right out of the crate.

Yes - the Gas Gas in the flesh looks awesome, and it is! In my opinion a Gas Gas handles notably better, what I mean is it steers much more predictable (can choose any corner line) and is more stable in the whoops and just "feels" lighter. I am comparing my 05 KTM to my 01 Gas Gas and the new 2007 GG are just better, so that is just my opinion. The KTM steering has been a bit problematic at times for me - I put in a E-Axle (front) with an eccentric cam and this helps quite a bit (like changing the triple clamp offset).

The GG are very reliable and have a 6th gear and the KTM only a 5 - this can be an issue if you gear down the KTM. Find a good GG dealer and you will be very happy.

Now my only concern is the 2 stoke in the USA as it may be banned in national forests (Dirt Bike magazine blurb 9/06) but no one really knows. If that would be the case, then next year 2008, I would buy a KTM 250 XC-F…

Best regards,

TeX MarK

 

[Eric K]

Now my only concern is the 2 stoke in the USA as it may be banned in national forests (Dirt Bike magazine blurb 9/06) but no one really knows.

That is the the current situation as supported by the EPA regulations. Any motorcycle (2T or 4T) manufactured in 2007 and on that does not meet the EPA emission requirements will not be legal to ride in national forests.

I expect the same requirement will also soon be applied to state forests where there is a lot of environmental activism. The best thing each of us can do is to be active in the legislative process.

 

[Mark Tracy]

That is the the current situation as supported by the EPA regulations. Any motorcycle (2T or 4T) manufactured in 2007 and on that does not meet the EPA emission requirements will not be legal to ride in national forests.

I expect the same requirement will also soon be applied to state forests where there is a lot of environmental activism. The best thing each of us can do is to be active in the legislative process.

WOOOOooooooo??? No EPA certified 2007's legal in US National Forests??? That is where I ride most of the time. We will require a "green" sticker for the 1st time which starts in 2007 I think. So that would make a 2007 GG 300 2S illegal to ride in a USNF?

I don't know if I am up for this battle as I have been writing letters to the Texas and the Atlanta headquarters for the USFS as they just closed down a great East Texas national forest called Angelina - we have been fighting this for over a year. They (Angelina NF) basically write there own rules, are sneaky about secrectly closing it, and have issued ridiculous ticket to us to chase us out - this has been open for ORV use for the last 37 years. I am also a Blue Ribbon Collation member - this is very disturbing to me...

Thank you for the input...

TeX MarK

 

[cladoo]

I turn 50 next year but I got my new 300 this year. And I love it!

 

[cdn280]

I turn 50 next year but I got my new 300 this year. And I love it!

I got my first GG at 50 (a 280 for my birthday gift) and my second at 50.5 (gift to myself, had to replace my 300 4T with a 2T)
hehe

See my post on the 300 here:
http://2wheelcentral.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=96#96

I was torn between the KTM and GG 300 too. The details that swayed me towards the GG were:
- I already had a 280 and was getting familiar with the brand
- six speed !
- parts prices were in the ballpark or cheaper compared to KTM, and the list price was LOTS cheaper here considering the added cost of lights etc to get the XC street legal (I'm comparing to an EC model) The new XC was declared 'offroad only' this year by the DOT.
- the KTM needs a steering damper at speed for me (another $500+)
- stories of torque and handling sounded more my speed. The KTM's I rode seemed like you always had to be 'on it' for the suspension to work or to make them turn. I'm getting lazier as the years progress and like to slow the pace down once in a while.
- more maintenance friendly (you have to take the tank off the KTM to pull the spark splug, not good when the airbox sucks water like it does) Who the H designed that?
Good luck in your decision. I've got 1200kms on mine now and am loving it more every ride.

 

[Mark Tracy]

Thanks guys for the replies!

I totally agree the Gas Gas 300 is a all around better machine than the KTM 300, at least out of the crate and for my personal preference. Parts were equal/less in price than a KTM from my past experience - the things I did not like about the GG which has been improved (from furmum reports) was a poorly sealed linkage which took a good part of the day to rebuild, a swing arm and sub frame that had to be forced in place, a wimpy kick starter (actually put a KTM K/S on my 01 EC 300). The KTM motor with a JD Jet kit and a modified "Clay" head squish band is a great/awesome easy to use motor - the G2 throttle cams add great versatility. Sorry if it sounds like I am defending the KTM, but it has been a very reliable bike, however the frame/handling IMO on a GG is superior. Yep, the 5th gear runs out quick on the KTM. With the stock tank it is impossible to remove the spark plug, and I fouled one on the hottest day and had no tools (stupid me!) and had a to have friend go back to the truck - thought I was going to have heat stroke that day waiting on him. The IMS tank I have fixes that and the plug is super easy access - Ironically I just removed the IMS as it effects handling and the smaller KTM tank make it much, much, easy to get up on the tank. After jetting correctly I haven't fouled a plug in a year. So now with all this USFS needing EPA approved bikes for 07 (???) has me "craw-fishing" and I am looking (just looking) at a KTM 250 XCF-W, but would rather stick with my original plan with a 2007 GG 300…

Best regards,

TeX MarK