My own rant

[roostafish]

We have been having a really nice discussion on our wish list threads. It seems that quite a few people have a common idea on what would completely refine the Gas Gas. Sounds good to me. It also seems that there are a few people that are a bit offended that we would suggest that Gas Gas might change some things. I recently rode a 2011 KTM. After a 20 minute stint on the pegs, I don't know if I would change anything but the handlebars on that bike. I didn't do a top end on it, or grease the swingarm, or do a tire swap on the front wheel, but it was every bit as good as my Gas Gas, which, I like very much.

I also own interest in two 2009 Husqvarna two strokes. The only thing I'd change on those bikes would be the placement of the kickstarter, and, of course the bars, but I'm a freak.

Selfishly, I could hope that Gas Gas remains the quaint little footnote that it is now, because it means I can usually buy one for far less than it's competition. I'm a frugal person, and I think (maybe arrogantly so) that I can ride any motorcycle over any terrain and do it all at the same speed, from a 125, to a 300, it's all the same. I happen to like Gas Gas, and I happen to think they work GREAT, but I'm going to buy what I can get a deal on, because all the bikes are great. If "improving" these bikes means making them cost as much as a KTM, I'm not interested, though I'd agree they need some little tweaks.

 

[Bobt250]

KTM refused for years to improve the turning of their bikes by changing the triple clamp offset and are screwing everyone by sticking them with that rear suspension that they defacto admit sucks by using better suspension on their MX bikes. They lie to us by telling us that the linkless design is as good and they only changed to linkage on the MX bikes for "marketing" reasons, being that the public demands it even though it isn't better...or so they want you to believe. Which is basically saying that we the people are stupid.

I think Gas Gas deserves every penny of my dirt bike money and more for providing the closest thing to a prefect bike I've ever seen. My GG is far better equipped than any KTM ever was.

Money was not a factor in my decision to buy the GG.

Smash the pumpkins.

Rant over....for now.

 

[jeffs2200]

I suppose when you say they cost less you mean for a used bike. I agree the resale market on the GasGas is a little soft but I think that will change as they gain in popularity.

I also think the KTM is an excellent bike and does not cost any more new than a GasGas. I almost went with a new KTM 300xc but I still have my 08 KTM 300 that I really like. The GasGas beats the KTM in a couple of areas and the KTM has some advantages over the Gasser in others.

I have not suggested it yet on the other thread but it seems like someone who makes a billet clutch cover for the Gasser could machine in an oil fill hole at the top like normal bikes have. I hate the oil fill on the GasGas, it is plain stupid!

I can not understand why some guys have to hate on the KTM's either. It comes off as jealousy or an inferiority complex. I mean it is not like they are a Honda!

When I read someone say how bad the KTM and pds suspension is it makes me laugh, they have never ridden a well setup KTM.

I kind of like having something a little different from everyone else and so far I like the Gasser quite a bit but if I had to give it up and go Orange tomorrow it would not hurt my feelings and I would be just as fast or slow depending on how you look at it.

 

[Bobt250]

It might help to say that I've had 35 bikes over a 40 year riding career.

My 2011 Gasser is a dream come true. Everything I always wanted.

The PDS suspension isn't as good, it can't be. Am I capable of pushing a properly set up PDS past it's limits? No way, but the flip side of that coin is that I can use all the help I can get since I'm not that good.

I owned a KTM and liked it but I get a little tired of the KTM Kool-aid drinkers pushing orange down my throat.

KTM makes a good product but I really hope Gas Gas eventually outsells them.

Why?

Because they deserve to IMO

P.S. a KTM 300 was my second choice for a bike

 

[lankydoug]

In my opinion the best deal on a used bike is a Gas Gas and the best deal on a new bike was the new leftover 2009 WR250 Husky for $4500. I own one of each. I know I'll have to mod any bike I buy so getting it at a good price makes a big difference. I would pay more if it was perfect for me out of the crate but that isn't going to happen.

 

[Bobt250]

I have a buddy who bought a Husky on that deal and it's a nice bike. I wanted a six speed and electric start though.

 

[GMP]

I've owned and struggled with two PDS KTMs, as well as a Ohlins PDS Cannondale. I've also ridden newer PDS KTMs. New bikes better no doubt. Mine were a constant battle and never ended up to my taste. Cannondale, beleive it or not, was much better in the rear than a KTM.

 

[roostafish]

When factoring the cost of a bike, one must consider the things that aren't included that must be purchased before riding the bike. GG sees fit to include a spark arrestor and comes with a headlight. That's $300. Couple that with the fact that the dealer is usually far more motivated to move a bike than the KTM dealer, and will sell it for less than retail, the Gas Gas is quite a bit less money than a KTM. Overall, it's a better deal. Husaberg makes an interesting machine, even though it has two too many strokes, but it is so high priced that I'm amazed anyone will buy one. Certainly I won't be buying just the cheapest bike, but the best deal on something that works. I'm not a brand snob. I love Gas Gas, but they didn't give birth to me. To me, Husky, KTM, and Gas Gas are all three very capable machines, all worthy of purchase. Gas Gas has my repeated business because we have an incredibly good dealer, who is an enthusiast.

 

[GMP]

Some guys can ride anything and others are more sensitive. Also, some bikes just "speak to you" more than others. I know that sounds weird but its true IMO. I just can't stand the way KTMs feel, period. I have a friend who can't ride anything else he is so used to them, so go figure. He also hates the forks and puts Showas on all his pumpkins. I could ride a Husky, and have some time on them, but the height is a disadvantage to me in the semi-trials like terrain. Same with a Yamaha. The GG justs fits the bill and always did. My local GG dealer dropped them but its absolutely no factor in my choice.

 

[jeffs2200]

I will be very happy if I can get the suspension on my GasGas to work as well as my KTM does. I am pretty happy with it but I just can not quite hammer through a set of woops like I can on the Orange bike.

As far as price of a new bike it is very close. I could have bought a new KTM 300xc for $7250 or the estart GG 300 for about $7100. To me stock out of the box the KTM has much better suspension than the Gasser, if I had went that way I would have been happy with only a respring and not needed revalving.

In the end I got a killer deal on a dealer demo non estart 2011 GG 300 with lots of extras included so the choice was a little easier.

 

[Clay]

I started serious racing back in 1980 on a KDX 175. I worked for Kawasaki from 1981 until 2001 and I always rode KDX175s and 200/220s. I had quit racing in 1997 or so and started back when I went to work for KTM in 2001. I had a hard time with the KTM pushing the front end in corners and I could not keep it in a rut, either. I thought it was me because everyone else talked about how good they handled. I moved over full time to Husaberg in 2008. When I rode the 2009 HB 450 with the 19mm offset triple clamps, I really liked the way the bike turned. I did not like the 2010 with the 22mm offset. I had to put 19s back on my 2010 FX450. Even with the 19s, I still struggled some but not quite as much as I did with the KTMs.
I had never ridden a GG until I got the Nambo back in August. The suspension was waaaay off and it took me a bit to get it valved and sprung correctly. Nevertheless, I immediately went "Wow! This is what I've been missing since 2001!". The GG just flat out works for me. Granted, everyone is different. Obviously there are a lot of guys out there that are perfectly comfortable with the KTM turning and handling and who can go very fast on them. I just seem to be more comfortable with the GG turning. Maybe 20+ years on short wheelbase KDXs has something to do with it.
Consistently, every one of the support guys that I have put on a Gas Gas has commented on the turning. Cole Kirkpatrick, Jeff Melik, Jordan Brandt, Robbie Jenks, etc.... All have commented on the GG handling.
One thing that I have noticed with the GG rear suspension.....your set up doesn't have to be perfect. The PDS system, when set up properly, works very good in the woods. Unfortunately, if the sag is off 5mm one way or the other, the PDS can be a handful. I think the linkage system covers up for a lot of set up flaws. I have noticed that when I hit something wrong, if it kicks, it kicks up and not to the side like the KTM did for me.
All in all, there are a lot of good motorcycles for the US consumer. It just seems to me that, back in the day, a lot of guys bought KTMs because they wanted something different from the Japanese bikes. Now KTM is the market leader and there are a lot of guys that want something that isn't orange. I have, time after time, heard from guys that they have been interested in GG for long time but the inconsitencies in distribution and lack of stocking dealers has scared them off. Now that they see a change in those area, I think a lot of them will want to give the GG a try. I'm good with that! We ain't trying to grow the market, we just want a few of those orange guys to switch over.
Clay

 

[Bryan]

Clay, I am really glad you are importing them now. I really appreciate that fact that you race and that you ride - meaning you understand us. It is very refreshing.

That is why I bought all my parts from Jim at Smackover when he was in business. He usnderstood us. (I am sure there are others out there, he was just the first one I worked with that got it.)

As soon as the budget allows I will be getting a new GG 300. They are great bikes.

 

[roostafish]

The Gas Gas handling is better than anything out there. I agree. Nothing turns like a Gas Gas, except maybe a KDX. As I have said before, it feels like a7/8ths scale bike. It's everything the KDX should have been for a serious enduro rider. It's better in every way than a KDX, yet is almost as unintimidating to ride. For sure, all things being equal, there is plenty of arguments to be made to choose the GG over all challengers.

My rant was over brand loyalty to a fault. Any person who races, or rides for maximum performance would be a fool not to ride the bike that makes the most sense, both performance and financial.

When I won the OMRA ISDE championship back in 1996, it was on a KTM. It would have made a lot more sense for me to be on an RMX at that time, but I was loyal to the KTM brand. The bike was fast and well suspended, but the RMX was less money, handled better, and could match the KTM performance for less than the difference in price between it and the KTM. The payout on the Suzuki contingency plan would have netted me more than $2400 that year. The KTM dealer did a nice little contingency for all of his riders, but it was far less.

My bottom line is that we should expect irritating little quirks to get resolved over time. GG is doing it, but some of the seemingly easiest things to fix are still there (oil fill, sub frame connectors).

I love my Gas Gas, I'm very happy that we now have Clay. It's incredible that we have been asked to chime in. Let's be realistic and not get grumpy if not every glitch gets addressed, but let us not squelch the well intentioned critical eye bent in improving the future books to come from Gas Gas.

 

[rgranger]

I just hope the fasteners are better than the Husky's. I have had two of them an 07te610 and an 08txc510 and the damn inserts kept spinning and it was getting damned annoying.
My 300 should be here mid to late January, anything that I should know about or plan to fix right off?
Thanks
Rob

 

[Cruiser]

I love the GG handling,, I've had several KTM's before PDS, a 98 with the early PDS that just plain sucked and now have an 04 with a modified PDS that is at best OK.. doesnt even compare to my 97 GG in the rocks but I had to have a Street legal 4stroke at the moment.. stepped down from my 625 to this 450exc. I think the SXC with a revalved rear shock and even with the extra size was better at the rocks than the exc pds is. Yes you can make it good at one thing.. but I need it to be more than a one trick pony. The linkage allows more flexibility it seams. I will have a new GG 250 or 300 in the near future.. or possibly go with a 450GG but I will be back on the gas soon.. Better bike, and now the dealer network is growing its becoming a better option,, thanks Clay for that!

 

[Rick]

Clay,

There is a few of us remaining from the Smackover fourm days, going back to the early 2000's....or earlier..... at that time I my rag of choice was Dirt Rider, they did a test on the EC200 and XC250, I read it (still have the issue to this day) and said to myself, I want one! A GasGas EC200!

I took a massive leap, bought a used EC200, never seen one up close, no dealers in my area.....rode the bike around in a gas station parking lot, Roost and I traded bikes and cash and I've never looked back since. I'm 49 years young and have had a just few bikes in my time, but nothing has ever compared to the GasGas. The bike has far exceeded my expections with regards to ownership, reliability, top quality components and handling, it still slices through the woods like a hot knife through butter

When I was up at Roost's place last spring we had his 08EC250 and my 99EC200 parked side by side, we were both amazed at how little they have changed over the years, but still have progessed into a serious contender. Aside from the frame color, swingarm protector and rear subframe assy the bikes still remain very close to the 97-99 very early U.S models.

I would love to throw a leg over a 2010 or 2011 EC200, just to see one up close, I think they are flat out sexy and two feel the progression they have made with regards to handling, fit, and feel. In the real world, I really don't want to ride one, cause I'd have to get bike a new bike

From what I've seen and read, it seems like the brand is headed in the right direction for us here in the U.S. Clay and his team are riders and racers and have reached out to the masses (this fourm) to make a great product better! Kudo's to them for thinking outside of the box.

Thanks

 

[gasgasman]

I should know about or plan to fix right off?
Thanks
Rob

Just ride the bike. Please?

 

[HuskyDude]

Clay, I am really glad you are importing them now. I really appreciate that fact that you race and that you ride - meaning you understand us.

That in it's self means the most. Like Dave Fair ( who I wish would chime in on this.) not only is the Canadian importer, but also competes in lots of events. Dave just happen to do more Trials. We are blessed to have them both in our corner and are a great asset to Gas Gas. But let us not forget where the GG imports have been in the past. We have a very long road ahead. I would love nothing more to have GG start leading in sales for imported M/C. But this is not going to happen over night. It will take years.

My bottom line is that we should expect irritating little quirks to get resolved over time. GG is doing it, but some of the seemingly easiest things to fix are still there (oil fill, sub frame connectors).

I wonder if the Europe rides have any complaints. It would be nice to know. Changing a factory line for a handful of bike is asking a lot IMO until our numbers on sales go up. Like the larger cap fuel tank...Ya I hate packing fuel or returning from a ride short cuz you didn't pack but we are all spoiled to say the least. I doubt they have any where near the riding area we do. You can ride all day long and never hit the same trail twice.

It's incredible that we have been asked to chime in. Let's be realistic and not get grumpy if not every glitch gets addressed, but let us not squelch the well intentioned critical eye bent in improving the future books to come from Gas Gas.

Again how fantastic to have the US imported come on here and ask us what we want.

This IMHO is a win,win for all.

Ok I guess it wasn't really a rant...

 

[Clay]

I really appreciate the kind words very much. I also appreciate your input. I thought I had thought of everything but I have gotten several good ideas from you all. (Darn...thought I knew everything! )
I also wanted you guys to understand the reasons behind some of the changes (if we get them) on the models.
Hey...this is fun for me! I like dirt bikes!

On Sunday I am headed to New England. I'm going to see a couple of dealers up there, pick up a couple of bikes from Paul Clipper and on Friday I am headed to Mike Lafferty's place. Kevin Novello has arranged to do a shootout with a Gas Gas XC250 and KTM 250 XC. Its going to be interesting, to say the least. I talked to Mike earlier today and he said there's about 2 feet of snow on the ground but it's supposed to warm up over the weekend and rain so he thinks it will be gone by next weekend. I'll keep you all posted on the results.

Clay

 

[AZRickD]

I await the results of the shootout.

I'm rather impressed with the strides that KTM has made over the last six years. When my KDX220 got long-in-the-tooth back then, I began test-riding lots of KTMs, Hondas, Zooks, Yammies. I didn't want a 4T, and the KTMs just seemed wanting. I stumbled upon a test ride of a 2007 GG in Houston in 2007 and found what I was looking for -- I bought a used 2005 DE250 which probably hadn't found its match in KTM until, perhaps 2010-11.

I test-rode a few 2010 and 2011 KTM 250/300s over the last 9 months. The KTMs have vastly improved, but they still can't match the turning of the GG and that linkless rear suspension feels like it is a half-foot shorter in the moment-arm. Going over small whoops really brought out the gremlins in that system.

My bike was sprung for the former owner who was 50 pounds lighter than I. He was also faster. I had LTR re-spring and revalve for heavier and slower. I couldn't be happier.

I rode a 2010 KTM250 that was revalved by a local magician. The forks were the sweetest I have ever encountered over rocks and whoops while having impressive bottoming resistance. Unfortunately the rear suspension was still all de-linked and the comparison of front and rear was interesting to say the least -- it seemed like opposite ends of different bikes.

So, should I drop coin on a 2011-12 GG, I fully intend to get it revalved and possibly re-sprung. I hope the Ohlins in the Nambotin are too my liking.