Revised Jetting Specs NEDW

[Jakobi]

Here he goes again.. they all say

Today was a miserable day in the far north (aus). 25C 65% humidity and a bit cloudy. Pretty normal! Elevation 300M+

Previously I have ran the following setups
42P N3EW#2 178 - Bit rich off bottom. Strong mid to top.
38P N3CH#2 178 - So clean off the bottom but a tad lean in the mid range. Ran clean but lacked balls.
38P N3EG#1 175 - Rich idle, then lean and crisp throughout. Was in the middle of summer at elevations approx 900m.
38P N1EF#1 175 - Too rich all over. It ran but it loaded up in the tight and smoked everywhere.

Now today, today.. I decided to try a Suzuki RM250 needle. The ones the KTM guys (*nudge*) have been ranting about. Started with 42P NEDW#3 172 (triple taper with a rich top end). Bike ran but required to come out a good few turns on the AS to get a consistant idle. Also some burbling when on the needle howver very punchy and powerful. Very on off though with the burble. This was meant to be a smooth linear setup from what I had read.

Dropped the pilot to a 40 and lifted the clip to #2. Yep! That hit the spot. AS set at 1.5 it starts and idles well. No hanging, no bogging. Crisp snappy response right off idle that just keeps on building all the way through. No really hard transitions onto the pipe like the N3 range. A little bit of the typical burbling when at part throttle without load but nothing compared to how it was at clip 3. Plugs looks good and bike feels great. Its very responsive to throttle like the N3CH#2 was, but doesn't have a lean whole in the middle.

The difference being Suzi runs lean-rich (bottom-top) where the N3 run the other way. These needles just work and I'd recommend anyone else who wants good performance to give em a try. By far the best setup I've ran yet, and those who know me, know I've tried just about every combo under the sun.

Cheers, Jake

 

[MJC]

X2, absolutely the best setup I've used in my 11' 250 as well. On my 250 I use the #3 position and 2 turns out on the AS.

 

[jeffs2200]

I have an NEDJ I can try. How does that compare to the NEDW.

Right now I am running the N3CH #2. 38 pilot 175 main and a.s. about 2.

I really like the n3ch but I have not been able to get a consistent idle using it.

What would you suggest with the nedj? 40p, 2nd clip,172 main.

This is on my 11 300 with 38mm carb.

 

[twowheels]

Here he goes again.. they all say

Today was a miserable day in the far north (aus). 25C 65% humidity and a bit cloudy. Pretty normal! Elevation 300M+

Previously I have ran the following setups
42P N3EW#2 178 - Bit rich off bottom. Strong mid to top.
38P N3CH#2 178 - So clean off the bottom but a tad lean in the mid range. Ran clean but lacked balls.
38P N3EG#1 175 - Rich idle, then lean and crisp throughout. Was in the middle of summer at elevations approx 900m.
38P N1EF#1 175 - Too rich all over. It ran but it loaded up in the tight and smoked everywhere.

Now today, today.. I decided to try a Suzuki RM250 needle. The ones the KTM guys (*nudge*) have been ranting about. Started with 42P NEDW#3 172 (triple taper with a rich top end). Bike ran but required to come out a good few turns on the AS to get a consistant idle. Also some burbling when on the needle howver very punchy and powerful. Very on off though with the burble. This was meant to be a smooth linear setup from what I had read.

Dropped the pilot to a 40 and lifted the clip to #2. Yep! That hit the spot. AS set at 1.5 it starts and idles well. No hanging, no bogging. Crisp snappy response right off idle that just keeps on building all the way through. No really hard transitions onto the pipe like the N3 range. A little bit of the typical burbling when at part throttle without load but nothing compared to how it was at clip 3. Plugs looks good and bike feels great. Its very responsive to throttle like the N3CH#2 was, but doesn't have a lean whole in the middle.

The difference being Suzi runs lean-rich (bottom-top) where the N3 run the other way. These needles just work and I'd recommend anyone else who wants good performance to give em a try. By far the best setup I've ran yet, and those who know me, know I've tried just about every combo under the sun.

Cheers, Jake

Jake: Sorry to hear about the weather. If it was that nasty here I'd call in sick to work

What bike are you running - a 250 or 300? Vintage? Any other mods?

 

[Jakobi]

Sorry its a 2010 Euro model 300 which uses the 38mm ASII (small bowl and flat metal cap) slide 7 non notched. S3 Head with black insert. Exhaust port flush with top of piston. Still large squish at 1.8mm.

The difference in the NEDJ is 2 steps leaner on the straight diameter than the N3CH and 1 step leaner then the NEDW/N3EW. I'd start by using it with a 42 pilot to compensate. I too found moving from the N3CH to N3EW cleaned up the idle issues.
So if you're using N3CH#2 I'd suggest trying the 42 NEDJ#2 172 and see how it feels. You can also get half clip adjustments (NECJ) etc.

 

[swazi_matt]

not quite on topic, but if you riding v technical stuff (extreme enduro type) where you want a lot of traction and good bottom end would it be better to run a setup that is a bit richer at the bottom or would you rather have it crisp of idle?

 

[Jakobi]

On topic Matt

I agree sometimes a bit richer is nice as its more forgiving. I also find burbly rich more snatchy if that makes sense Ie. Burble then hit. The NEDW seems to be very linear and smooth in that you can control the power even at slight throttle openings and as you open more the power just builds. There is no burble down low or slow revving followed by abrupt power.

I rode some really tight 1st/2nd gear single track as part of my test run and while its crisp its not uncontrollable at all. Very very predictable but still makes gobs of power.

 

[gg3]

Jakobi,what are you going to do now you've found the perfect jetting?Could you maybe work out world peace & fusion power? Good work,thanks for your efforts.

 

[Jakobi]

Good question..

I refuse to do any self education in suspension because I know how it would work out for me Looks like the lady might be getting a bit more Jake time for a while

If anyone else gives these needles a burl I'd love to hear the feedback!

 

[Jakobi]

I did some back to back testing today between clips 2 and 3 just for shits and giggles. Mostly as an excuse to get out of the house Lemme know which one you think sounds/looks best.

Clip 2 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7FfQ5dquaE
Clip 3 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlOq6WQXEtY

Both have a bit of chatter as the powervalve opens which is more noticable with the ignition in sunshine (more of a hit). As people have noted in the past its more present with the leaner jetting also. Clip 2 feels a lot more vibey through the bars in the mid range and the pipe also vibes against the header a bit more (need new o-rings). Clip 3 feels much smoother but also less crisp/snappy. I feel the front end wants to lift easier on clip 2.

 

[Jakobi]

After doing a decent ride with the NEDW on clip 2 I feel it might be a tad lean in the mid range or quarter throttle under load. Lifting the needle (dropping the clip) 1 position appears to make the mid range feel a bit better but then I suffer a mad richness right off idle. If I try and tune this out with the AS I then get a hanging idle.. Could just be my mind playing with me. Is it normal for the bike to sound a bit tinny as it first comes onto the pipe? What exactly does a ping sound like? its really hard to determine because its the very rev range where my bike vibrates the most too so is it a ping and higher pitch I hear because of being lean or is it just the bikes pipe vibrating and resonating a bit. The power still feels strong.

I think I'll have one more play with it in the days ahead before calling it quits. Stay posted.

 

[Jakobi]

Please have a listen and tell me what you all think
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvRWt8XubK0

The only other thing I can think of if I'm still slightly pulling over on the spilot circuit, then richening the needle clip would then richen the idle and off idle mix aswell. What I may have to do is back out the idle screw some more and ensure the circuits are separated completely. *bangs head against the wall*

 

[clw]

Do you have either a NECJ or a NEDJ to try? A J needle ought to work with either a 42 in warm weather or a 45 in cooler weather.

Why do you think it's lean in #2?

If you have the idle adjustment too tight the idle will hang unless you are real rich.

 

[Jakobi]

Only thing that makes me think I may be a tad lean in clip 2 is the sound at certain throttle. Unsure if its just the normal tinny kind of sound coming onto the pipe or not. Theres a definite area just after 1/4 throttle that sounds more tinny then the rest of the rev range but I'm not sure if its actually pinging or just some vibration.

How did the video sound on the ears?? The plug shows no sign of detonation.

 

[clw]

It just sounds crisp to me. Pinging normally occurs under high load conditions, cruising up that hardpack road shouldn't be a strain on the motor.

If you think it's lean in the mid, bump up the main one size and see what changes.

 

[Jakobi]

Good thinking. Odds are its probably just the bike making normal noise as it doesn't appear to be doing anything else odd. Its actually running really well. This is my first 2 stroke so I don't really have anything else to compare it to.

 

[clw]

1st 2 smoke. A smoker's power gets flat when it's too lean, they can be too lean, not ping, just be down on power.

 

[GGEvo]

Jake sounds good to me mate.

Perhaps ride a few weekends and then see what you think.

You have made so many jetting changes you might be thinking too much??? Just ride bro!!!!!!

 

[Jakobi]

I know I'm over thinking Maybe I should leave the go pro at home for a few weeks too. Its the watching it after that causes the over analysis!

What do you mean falls flat? Won't pull through when rolling on the power? or just slower and not as strong?

 

[clw]

Like the motor lost its balls, weak, revvy, snapping open the throttle may result in a bog for a second

Cold start your bike, quickly turn off the choke, the way your motor acts before its warmed up is a lean condition (among other things). Just an example, not recommended as loading a cold motor can cause cold seizures.