firffighter
New member
OK. Checked plug and it looks good. Tan color on base. I might be a bit lean and will try a 40 main just to confirm.
Revised Jetting Specs NEDW
- Thread starter Jakobi
- Start date
Jakobi
Super Moderator
CCK on clip 5.. with what pilot and main? What altitude and temp? Thats quite rich and I think you'd find the NEDx would be alot leaner all over, even at the same clip. My JD Jetting won't plot the Suzi needle so can't give you a visual. Like always I'd start in the middle clip, run the engine and then adjust as required.
Alot depends on the year of the bike and the particular model and size of PWK carb you're running.
Alot depends on the year of the bike and the particular model and size of PWK carb you're running.
Jakobi
Super Moderator
These are very similar to my conditions re N1EF temp altitude etc. I run 50:1 FR. I haven't tried the CCK but if I did I'd imagine my setup would be around this. I now run the NEDW #2 same conditions, So maybe you could drop the NEDW #4 for a start.
I've been racing my 11' 250 Six Days all season long with the NEDW@ #3, 40 pilot, and a 172 main without a problem, but that's with a 38mm carb, and the plug looks great. I just went riding at CATRA on Friday and the jetting was prefect. I wonder what would make your bike different from mine? We're riding at roughly the same temps and elevations. I even know that our bikes came out of the same shop.
I'm on a 250 with 36mm with 40 pilot, 175 main, running out near the ocean, 200' elevation
I cant use the nedw then, I need a richer needle
skid jackson
New member
I was hoping you were from australia and didn't have ethanol in your gas!! But catra is a lot closer than the outback ... My carb is a 36 don't know if that should make too much of a difference. I played around with it in the yard today and plan to leave it at 45 pilot 3rd clip 178 main until I can get out for a real ride. Currently its not too bad off the bottom and a bit rich in the middle and beyond. A 42 and 175 might work ... a 40 and 172 sounds veeeerrry lean. if the weather clears out hopfully I'll be able to get out for a ride.
Jakobi
Super Moderator
That carb, with those specs, the bike should run great with it on clip 3 with the same pilot and a 172 main. If I was you I'd definately give it a try. For the 10 minutes it takes you'll immediately know if you like it or not. As stated others running the same bikes/setups are using this needle.
In particular the Pumpkins all have 36mm carbs and are running 38 NEDW/CW at clip 3 and 162 mains.
Is it really cold where you are?
it would blow up if I did that, it pings bad with the cck any lower than it's richest clip, that's a leaner main and a leaner needle, I doubt I would make it out of the parking lot without problems
I'm riding in sand, that probably makes a difference, if your jetting is lean, it'll ping real quick
Jakobi
Super Moderator
You can have your doubts about making it out the parking lot as much as you want. I'm only making a suggestion. Yours to take or leave.
At the end of the day we can all speculate as much as we want and only you will know if the needle works for you, and only you will know if you put it in the bike and ride it. You are comparing a tripe taper needle to a straight diameter needle. You're also comparing a needle with a small diameter against one with a larger diameter. The third taper on the NEDW that overlaps the main is alot richer than that of the CCK so once again you can't objectively say that the smaller main jet will actually supply less fuel.
CCK starts rich and leans off. NEDW starts lean and richens up in 3 different steps. Also for what its worth, CCK#5 is rediculously rich, even moreso for a 36mm carb. Its like running an N1EF#4 and I've not once heard of anyone doing this even with 38mm carbs.
Whats your plug look like? How much spooge do you get? Is it pinging you hear or maybe the pipe vibrating? How many hours on the bike? Any air leaks? Are your reeds damaged? How many kms are you getting to a tank? What rev range/throttle opening are you pinging?
I don't know about everyone else but the maths isn't really adding up for me.
I must have misunderstood, I thought the nedw was a leaner needle than the cck. Keep in mind I'm riding near sea level and humidity was 90 % temp was 85, the 36 jetting people post is quite a bit different than the 38's I see posted.
I started with the stock setup, a 42 pilot AS 1.5 turns, NE1F #2, and a 175 main, it spooged AND pinged so bad I had to limp to the parking lot, if I was riding in soft sand at 3/4 throttle it would start to ping, no ping under WOT, plug looked bad, real bad. I moved the clip to #4, no more ping but it was not really crisp at mid throttle, plug looked good.
38 pilot cleaned up the idle nicely, and just a touch of spooge, it'll ring around the silencer but no run, that's about where I put all my bikes. The cck feels pretty good but I dont like being at #5 as it is now, it's not as responsive as I like, I was told on TT that a DDM would be the next step to try, I really should check the needle in my ktm 200 and see what it has, I always loved the way my 200 runs.
I had the CCK at #3 and made it a mile before I turned around, it was way way too lean at 1/2 throttle in the sand
For reference someone near me with same bike setup is running a 40/N3EJ#3/180
bike is a 2011 with 20 hours on it, I have not opened it up to look at anything internal, based on the 36mm jetting specs people posted, I'm not very far off, and with the sand + humidity + near sea level, I'm not sure why you think something is wrong
I agree with Jakobi, There is something wrong/different with your bike. With the jetting you're using and at those temps and elevation my bike would not even run.I've tried a CCk needle. That n3ej, 40 and 180 that your friend is using is very similar to my NEDW, 40, 172 setup, as that is the exact same setup I was using before I put the NEDW needle in my bike. The n3ej needle has a harder hit into the midrange than the nedw, but it did run very clean from bottom to top.
Jakobi
Super Moderator
Here in Australia, at the southern end of the country one dealer jets their bikes 42 N3EJ#3 178, but these were all 38mm carbs. Same dealer also recommends 42 N1EG#2 175 once they bring the squish down. All based at sea level and much cooler than where I am.
Have you tried the N3 range yourself? I just plotted the 42 N3EJ#3 180 vs 40 CCK#5 178 and the CCK starts 10% richer ramping up to 18% richer at 1/4 throttle. Before tapering back to the same at WOT. CCK is consistantly richer all over. So does the other bike with the N3EJ ping while riding the same conditions?? This is why I asked if its something with your bike? 18% is a massive difference (a clip position is usually around 5% change).
Have you measured your squish?
Have you tried the N3 range yourself? I just plotted the 42 N3EJ#3 180 vs 40 CCK#5 178 and the CCK starts 10% richer ramping up to 18% richer at 1/4 throttle. Before tapering back to the same at WOT. CCK is consistantly richer all over. So does the other bike with the N3EJ ping while riding the same conditions?? This is why I asked if its something with your bike? 18% is a massive difference (a clip position is usually around 5% change).
Have you measured your squish?
does harder hit mean leaner or richer?
I have a n3ej waiting for me at the dealer, and I have a 180 main I can try, I'm not sold on the cck as I cant go any richer when I ride out at the ocean
how are you guys plotting out the changes?
the other bike, not sure if he rides in deep sand like I've been doing, mine did not ping until I hit the sand
Jakobi
Super Moderator
And in comparison. my previous jetting was N3EW#2 with a 175/178 main depending. Now I found the NEDW#2 provides the best response. Same same finding as MJC in regards to the midrange hit. At my temps and elevation I also found the N3CH#2 (half clip leaner) ran really well once paired with a size smaller pilot.
See the pattern developing?
are you on a 36mm carb? the jetting is quite a bit difference per the jet database thread between the 36 and 38's
can you compare a 40 pilot CCK #4 175 main to a 40 pilot N3EJ #3, 175 main? I'm curious how different that will be, I dont think I can run my cck at #5 here at the house
can you compare a 40 pilot CCK #4 175 main to a 40 pilot N3EJ #3, 175 main? I'm curious how different that will be, I dont think I can run my cck at #5 here at the house
Jakobi
Super Moderator
I'm using JD Jetting chart to plot the needles. Google it if you want! To be honest I feel there is no reason why you should have to continue to jet richer. Its like you are jetting to compensate for some underlying condition. Its miles away from anyone elses base jetting specs, including someone with the same bike riding the same area.
The N3 range runs rich/lean. Its a 2 taper needle, and the hit is the transition from the richer taper to the lean one. This is why its also matched with a larger main.
At 20hrs have you ever changed your exhaust o-rings/springs? What else have you done to confirm its actual detonation/pinging? Does it just sound a bit tinny as it comes onto the pipe? Have you noticed any specs on the plug electrode? Does the power fall flat, hesitate?? boowang?? My bike vibes a bit and there is a destincative change in pitch as the powervalve opens. I used to think it sounded lean too, but I have over 100hrs on mine now. First piston at 75hrs and to be honest it didnt need it. Ring gap was still good. Piston showed little wear.
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