Sachs vs Ohlins/Zokes in 2011?

Les didn't mention anything different. One of our members told me that when he went to get his SixDays Ohlins/Zokes revalved, his tuner had to do some minor surgery with some little nubblets that weren't installed/machined properly. Perhaps he will chime in.

The tuners I have contacted that have experience with the three manufactures have all said they can tune them. What they worried about is the availability of components and the price of, say a Zoke fork leg, or Sachs shock shaft seal for two specific examples.

Other tidbits when I have the time.
 
I remember a fellow user (BrentMartell) I think saying that his rebound dampening holes weren't drilled out very well. And that a rivet or something had partially blocked another hole. I just sent my forks out for re-valving as I find them quite un-rider friendly. My suspension guy told me that he replaces the midvalve on them and tunes with the stacks somewhat. I'm not to sure what is involved as it is a bit of a black art to me.
 
So how many different Combos are we looking at across 2010/2011

Shock-Forks

Sachs-Sachs
Ohlins-Sachs
Ohlins-Zokes

Then throw into the mix that certain models had different valving from the factory depending on make and we've got ourself a good all out mixup. No wonder so many varying results between riders, and to think this is just over 2 years.

Perhaps if everyone could specify their year and model to also try and clarify any trends in suspension setup.

So far I have seen
2010 EC300 Euro/Racing Australia Ohlins-Sachs
2011 EC300E Australia Sachs-Sachs
2010 EC300 Australia Sachs-Sachs
 
Randall Ellison (E-Tech). He rides the same bike and has done several others including the guy who is spanking the competition in AA class. I need to get some time on mine, but it feels remarkably better just riding around the yard hitting a few things. Too much rain to get out so hopefully will get some time Saturday. He has a great combo that works for our area and the price is right.

If you want his number PM me.
 
My rig is a 2011 300EC Kickstart only with Zokes/Ohlins. I'm 215lbs in street clothes, and am a top 3 A rider at most races. I know I'm heavier than stock springs allow, but I consider myself a 'smooth' type of rider, looking to ride the smoother line rather than smash through a possibly faster one. I find the setup to be harsh in stock form and the clickers didn't do much for me....... Ride a new Orange bike and you'll see a huge difference.
 
Probably because your 210lbs, and smooth rider or no, a very fast rider is still pushing suspension beyond its stock form, let alone a stock heavy rider.

All these comparisons to ktm suspension, yea its good, but they have unlimited time and money to spend on getting it right, seeing as they are the same company ktm and wp, I dont know of any other bike brand which uses wp either?
Wheras gasgas deals with suspension they have to spec and buy in. Although they dont do themselves any favours swapping brands every few years, even worse that there are 3 seperate suspension manufacturers contributing this year, sachs, marzocchi and ohlins., all of which work with other bike brands also. Its difficult to compete with ktm and wp in that aspect. Im not really sure what I mean by this, but thought I should point it out

haha rant over
 
I can agree and accept that GG doesn't have the resources available to them that a larger company may. For me large company or not, the manufacturer needs to listen to their customers and develop / evolve their products to meet their requests. The proof of a company listening in is found in the next model year. Hopefully revisions are made that please the majority of their clientel. Saying this I also acknowledge that some of the Zoke riders are happy with the product in its current form.

I agree that I likely am pushing the limits of stock suspension. I know this before I even throw a leg over any bike. Saying this a GG isn't a trail bike, its a bike built for racing. Says so on the stickers on the frame, etc.
 
They do listen, but like it or not NA isnt their biggest market at the moment, so they set up the bikes best for European conditions, and unlike ktm, gg cant afford to offer a whole different range of bikes for NA.
 
noobi said:
They do listen, but like it or not NA isnt their biggest market at the moment, so they set up the bikes best for European conditions, and unlike ktm, gg cant afford to offer a whole different range of bikes for NA.
Click to expand...
If they plan to be successful this side of the pond they have to.
 
I think this in all in flux and will change as Clay grows the US market. The more sales, the more clout to make market specific changes for the following year. Remember, this is the first full model year with Clay at the helm.

Mrkartoom, you and I both know that the NETRA terrain is a different animal and requires a special setup to get the most out of any bike. We are not the masses. I consider a revalve like handguards and a skidplate when buying a new bike. So, we can look at this in two ways: On the negative side, we have to revalve any bike we get. On the plus side, we don't care what the stock valving is like because we ARE going to revalve it anyway. As long as the components, by design, respond to tuning is whats important.
 
GMP said:
I think this in all in flux and will change as Clay grows the US market. The more sales, the more clout to make market specific changes for the following year. Remember, this is the first full model year with Clay at the helm.
Click to expand...
I agree with all that and think that Clay is doing a great job. I see nothing but positive with the the things I'm hearing from him and the direction things are going, hence my eagerness to buy of of these things. There are two ways to look at things going forward: be proactive to the US market or be reactive. I'm just saying I think they need to do both for the greatest chance for success here. This is a suspension thread, but my opinion is really inclusive of the whole machine. I didn't really clarify that.

I don't think they need to do what KTM does and offer a specific line, but I do think they need to target US-specific wants to be really successful, meaning they can't just expect what's good for Europe to sell like hotcakes over here and scratch their heads if it doesn't. They know that and if they don't I'm sure Clay is driving it home.

As far as suspension settings go I know they have to go after Joe Average. To my pleasant surprise though I am very happy with what I got. My Sachs stuff is way better than any other stock setup I have had, and as good as the very pricey, specific-tuned stuff on my last bike. That's pretty amazing to me.
 
I just did 2 amazing rides this weekend on the new six days 250. Firstly the thing is a tractor on the hill climbs. Why anyone would need a 300 is beyond me. No offence to you 300 riders. I rode one of those this weekend as well and it was still nice. Back on track here, suspension. Wow. I have the ohlins 888 shock and 48mm Sachs forks. By far the nicest setup I have ever ridden. It is very compliant everywhere and i haven't turned a clicker yet. I expect it will only improve with some fine tuning. We ride roots, logs and a lot of rocks around here (99.8 km's of it today) and the bike is just letting me ride at an entire new level. It's like cheating really. It even works really well on the mx tracks on the same clicker settings. I'm scared to adjust anything. It's too nice like it is. :D
 
The 45mm shivers that were on my '05 ec 300 gave me the shivers.
Even after two reputable Australian suspension tuners had a go at them during the 5 years i had the bike they were still shite.

Not only do they look and feel spindly at 45mm, they're a archaic design from the 1990's. Copy of early showa's i believe, at least the '05 was.

Try getting an ohlins TTX kit for 45mm zokes = not possible.

Try getting an ohlins TTX kit for 48mm sachs = ohlins part # fggg 1182.

I'm a nobody, but 45mm zokes make me want to puke, go the sachs 48mm everytime.
 
How fast are you Rod?

Mine work very well too, at my "B" level speed in some very tough terrain. They have their quirks but I would not call them shite as far as performance goes. I think the biggest mistake riders make with this fork is misinterpreting the inadequate high speed rebound control and subsequent "spike" for a compression problem.
 
Not fast at all, i'm a 49yo, 85 to 90kg clubman. I just never got the zokes to my liking.

My request to the 1st tuner was to give me a firmer fork that sat up in the stroke a bit more, something that didn't bottom out as frequently but still compliant for the smaller stuff.

What i got was a fork that was probably more suited to an mx track, it was revalved and had .45 prings (up from .42) and sat up nicely in the stroke. It was just too firm in the initial part of the stroke for bush/woods riding no matter what i did with clickers.

My request to 2nd tuner was fix the mess of 1st tuner and give me some plushness for the bush, he carried out his bush land mod,revalved,and went back to softer springs, .42 or .43 from memory. The result was beautifully plush forks up to a point but then they would just blow through the stroke when hitting something hard or unforseen.

Anyway, i simply found the ttx/sachs straight out of the box to be exactly what i was trying to achieve with the shivers. I'm sure these forks could be improved too, but for my ability they're sweet. The front end doesn't sag excessively when just sitting on the bike, it soaks up the little stuff well without deflection,doesn't blow through the stroke on mid to bigger hits and only bottoms out when you'd expect it should.

As i said i'm a nobody but i have been riding dirt bikes since i was 10yo, so i know what i like.
 
Thats a tuner and or tuner/rider communication issue not a fork issue. I'm sure the TTX is great stuff but the average and even above average rider should not feel he has to spend the $$ on TTX for a decent performing fork. The Zokes can work very well.

FWIW, your only a couple lbs heavier than me, and I run .44s, but with very little preload. Too much preload is the devil in the trail trash. Stiffer springs, less preload, more rebound, less bleed is where its at.
 
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