under powered EC200

G

geoff g

New member
just had my 2007 EC200 on the dyno and guess what ?....only 27hp ( should be 38hp ) this bike has been under powered from the first ride in July 2008 and was purchased new, the jetting is spot on, squish is 2mm, compression is spot on, any idea where the other 11hp may be ?
Cheers
 
Assuming everything is in order, check the pipe. The newer 200s have a different pipe than the 250/300s. There was a test done by one of the UK mags that flamed the 200 for being weak, and they discovered that the bike had been shipped with a 250 pipe, the correct pipe cured it. BTW, 2mm squish is sloppy for a 200.
 
I guess that 38hp is quoted by GG? You would need to compare to other dyno'd GG 200's. 27 may not be an unreasonable rear wheel horse power for claimed 38hp at the crank.

Is it noticeably slower than other GG 200's in a straight line?

The KTM200 probably makes more power but mime was very on/off, For tractability you have to trade ultimate power which I believe the GG does and KTM does not.

Also the UK magazine TBM ran a test and said while the bike felt slow it was faster than both a MX250 and a KTM400 around a special test (surprisingly since it felt much slower to ride) and much less tiring to ride.

As I remember when TBM dyno's bikes say the current crop of 250 4t's which claim 35hp+ (I think - check this) the power on a dyno is around the 30hp mark. I think a knobblie tyre costs about 5hp over a slick alone.

Other factors - O ring chains use power

Manufacturers will test at optimum conditions so usually a cold day when the air is more dense but regardless they have probably claimed BHP so without an engine dyno the best you can do it to try and match other known good GG test test results to see if your bike is down on HP.

Did you check if the bike was revving high enough and who was doing the jetting - how do you know it was set up spot on for max power.

I've been told 2t oil mixture affects power and something like 16:1 gives max power because of better ring sealing and increased compression - you would be better speaking to 2t kart tuners or possibly MX tuners to confirm this though Enduro tuners aren't too bothered about max HP. I don't know if manufacturers do this for their dyno runs but obviously you would have to re-jet for this and then it's only to produce a number from a machine.

Have you checked the basic compression on you bike - how many hours do the rings have on them - this can make a big difference and even aftermarket pistons may change the compression ratio and timing.

If I remember I'll try and look through my TBM mags to see the GG 200 dyno result - PM me if you haven't heard anything for a bit (I may forget) if you really want this.
 
Yes The media's job is to keep you unhappy , insecure and to keep you buying their pay masters products , never ending chain of short term gratification.Like upright says, 27 whp not bad, its a 200 what'd you expect?
 
Hi Glenn, the pipe was the first thing to be checked back in July and I was assured that it was correct, I also read the mag test TMX about the 200 and they said the correct pipe made a difference, however gasgas australia tell me that the pipes are all the same, the squish was set at 2.6mm from new and the optimum is 1.6mm but without machining the head I was able to get that to 2mm by setting the barrell height which also lined up the ports spot on at bdc.
Cheers
 
Hi, a road bike tyre was fitted for the dyno and I would not think that you would lose that much HP through to the rear wheel on a bike. how worn is the engine ? .....this has been under powered since day one, compression is good, jetting is finally right after going to a 172 main ( which resulted in 2HP gain...25HP - 27HP ) thanks for your interest.
Cheers
 
This should be a Mythbusters show. I am fairly sceptical about the power of GG two strokes that you sometimes see quoted. I suspect they are exagerated or misinterpreted ie crank V rear wheel. It would be interesting to see some dyno chart comparisons for GG and other like bikes.

I agree, my bet your bike is fine and the other 11 hp is in a brochure somewhere.
 
I didn't consider the numbers, just the comment that he felt the bike was slow.
 
There was some talk at one of the National Enduros about GG changing the porting on the '07 200s.
A dealer mentioned that owners of earlier models were saying how much faster their older bikes were.
Food for thought.
 
Keep us updated. I am thinking about buying a 07 200, as the dealers have a couple left at a really good price.They don't have any 250/300 left.But after having my 05 EC250 I'm concerned that I will curse it for lack of power even after a power valve cover and head mod.

While I'm here, does anyone think that the 07 was a big upgrade on the 05 in the handling department? My thinking is that I would'nt mind the power loss if the bike handles a lot better. I'm really happy with my 05 and don't want to make the wrong decision.

Any help/advice appreciated.
 
The '07 subframe/body work makes a nice difference. The main frame is the same as '05 but because of the other changes the bike has a better feel. You can upgrade your '05 with '07+ parts.

Next time the cyl is off, measure the port dimmensions and post them for referance. It would be interesting to compare it to a pre '07 bike.

Forget the dyno, where exactly does the power FEEL lacking (low/mid/top)?

Timing OK? CDI correct (for 200)?
 
What was your compression (psi). My KTM 200 has 205 with a new set of rings and dropped to 170ish before you woudl feel it lacking power but then when the rings were replaced you would feel a noticeable boost in power.

My GG 300 has always has 150 which seems very low but new rings produced an identical figure and I'm not after any more power :eek: Maybe the posting on GG's always produce lower figures?

I believe leaner on the main (upto a point) allows the bike to rev higher and thus should produce more power - I don't know at what point you may risk seizing 9if at all) but with a dyno you should be able to continue going richer/leaner until the power tails off then go back to the last jet size which produced max power bearing in mind that's on that day at that pressure humidity etc.

How's the float height on the carb? Again what was your max rpm or RPM at max power that should give a good indication if the bike can rev high enough to make max power - 2t's are quite sensitive in this area.
 
GMP said:
The '07 subframe/body work makes a nice difference. The main frame is the same as '05 but because of the other changes the bike has a better feel. You can upgrade your '05 with '07+ parts.

Next time the cyl is off, measure the port dimmensions and post them for referance. It would be interesting to compare it to a pre '07 bike.

Forget the dyno, where exactly does the power FEEL lacking (low/mid/top)?

Timing OK? CDI correct (for 200)?
Click to expand...
Ive got a brand new 01 cylinder sitting here to compare port specs to.
 
HTML: 
what was your max rpm or RPM at max power

Please share this info with us, I am curious also.

Ron
2004 ECDE 200
 
the lack of power is right through the rev range...to the point where I am going to check ignition timing ( feels retarded ) try and clutch it through a water crossing or ditch at speed and the front wheel wont even lift so it always hits front wheel first...not good, every change I have made has improved performance but still not where I want it to be. I just thought someone may have heard of this before..hence the post. I will let you know when I hear back from gg aust who are going to compare HP with Spain to see if this is normal or not.
 
Do you have the map switch?

If unplugged, it will be in the rain mode.
The map switch connectors have to be connected together at the CDI module to be in the sun mode.
 
no..the 07 do not have the map switch. I am at work at the moment and my dyno sheet is at home, but from memory the max HP was at 17500rpm and the compression was just over 200psi, float level is correct and the more I think about it the more I am leaning towards ignition timing..will check and let you know.
ps... just heard back from a friend in NL who checked with the gasgas dealer and guess what ?......expect 34 - 36 REAR WHEEL HP... the saga continues..
Cheers
 
that would effect all your power. The 2007 Gasgas bikes did come with a dual mapped ignition. Make sure its in Sun mod like said before.
 
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