Unique starter fail, seeking advice

[dANbOT]

So my 14 starter was pretty good until recently, I thought I was maybe a lucky one.

One day, the bolts that secure the flywheel ring gear came loose and fell out. It made a minor crunch noise as it stalled the idling bike out. I replaced the bolts with thread locker and went about my usual buisiness. The starter worked good for about a week after this, and then started free spinning.

I took the bendix out to find the problem, expecting to have to order the Honda scooter bendix to fix it right. What I found is this:
The fine tooth gear at the top of the shaft has spun on the shaft and is no longer a press fit. When I hit the button, the gear just spins on the shaft.
The rest of the bendix is working properly.

So now unless I can figure out a backwoods way to secure the gear to the shaft I think I'll be stuck ordering a new bendix from GG. Anyone have suggestions?

 

[Neil E.]

Strange that there is no mechanical attachment like a weld or a keyway/spline. Are there drive pins on the underside?

If it was free enough, you could push it up the shaft, clean the shaft well and use red loctite when you push it back in place. However it sounds like you still have a light press fit so there is no way to get the loctite in place.

The only other suggestion would be a TIG weld between the gear and shaft. Maybe on the underside if you can get the assembly apart.

The best way of course is a new unit.

 

[Biff]

I've been searching for a straight bendix replacement , but not had much luck
Not had time to take mine out and count teeth on upper and lower
Gears.
Must be one out there some where....
If you take it out , please post gear teeth count on upper and
Lower, also any other dimensions if poss.
Ta

 

[pigpen966]

Mine just did the same thing!!! I thought I had it sorted out with the honda bendix. The top gear is a 40 tooth drive gear and the bottom is 14. I just ordered a smu5009 which is a 40/14, but the 14 is .62 mm larger in OD than the smu5011(honda bendix}. I'm not sure what the OD of the GG 40 is. For $22 I'll give it a try. Arrowhead Electrical is where I've been looking.

 

[dANbOT]

Tooth counts are 40 top, and 14 bottom.
Here is what the shaft / gear looks like disassembled. Nothing other than press fit to hold the gear from spinning.

I took it apart, and assembled it with some bearing retainer loctite.... We'll see if it holds. The good news is the damage seems to be on the shaft only, so possibly I can still swap everything over to the shaft on the Honda bendix since the gear looks mint.

 

[Blakelpd5]

Can anyone tell me if there is supposed to be a gasket where the starter meets the side case cover? There is a simple two bolt connection here, with no gasket on my 14. Seems there should be something???

Thanks!

 

[Biff]

No gasket on my 2013...

 

[dANbOT]

Well I let the loctite cure overnight, just installed the bendix and so far it works great!

 

[dANbOT]

The bearing retainer compound did not hold... maybe 4 or 5 starts.

Next, I drilled a hole through the hub of the gear and into the shaft (hard work) and tapped for a 8/32" machine screw to use as a shear pin of sorts.
This fix lasted a little longer but sheared the screw in the end.

It seems I am out of DIY free fixes to try here, so it looks like I will be ordering the Honda bendix. The next question is: will the GG top gear press onto the Honda shaft tight and secure? If not, I guess I'll have to order a GG bendix.

I'll report back when I get rolling on this again.... really missing my e-start!

 

[pigpen966]

Installed the SMU 5009 bendix to mine. This is a DIRECT SWAP, I say again, a direct swap. Took a little creative fitment but it works. Also it's $22 bucks. I'm going out today for a ride so it will be a good test. I'll report back with the results.

 

[dANbOT]

update on the 5009 bendix?

 

[dANbOT]

Well, today things got worse...
The kick start shaft snapped off almost flush with the right side cover. SO now I am making another attempt at fixing my e start. Last time the machine screw broke right away so I made a solid pin from the butt end of a drill bit, and have epoxied it in place. Hopefully this gets me through until I get some parts.

 

[dANbOT]

Ordered a used kick start shaft from eBay out of a 2013.
I also took a gamble on the smu5009 14/40 bendix. Hoping to hear a successful report from pigpen

 

[pigpen966]

Sorry, been busy at work. The 5009 works like a champ!!! I actually think this is the PERMANENT fix. Soon as I get some time out in the garage I'll disassemble it and take some pics of how I got it to work.

 

[dANbOT]

Sorry, been busy at work. The 5009 works like a champ!!! I actually think this is the PERMANENT fix. Soon as I get some time out in the garage I'll disassemble it and take some pics of how I got it to work.

That is some great news!
Was it just a matter of shimming the starter body to allow for the slightly larger diameter of the 40t?

 

[pigpen966]

The 40 gear is the same diameter, the problem is it is thicker. I had to remove about 1mm from the motor housing where the top of the bendix shaft sits to get the housing to fit down on the flywheel cover.

 

[pigpen966]

Sorry it took so long, got a big job going on at work.


Here is the SMU 5009 bendix from DB Electrical $22 and the OEM.

As you can see the 40 tooth drive gear is the same diameter but thicker.
When you drop it in looks like this

I took about 1mm off the bottom of the 5009 shaft with the bench grinder
Also relieved about 1-1.5mm off of the housing to get it to sit down on the flywheel housing

Works like a champ now and the 5009 bendix is a direct swap for $22 bucks.

 

[Jakobi]

Could you not get someone to machine up a batch of small spacers and fit it between the 2 parts. Would add a tad more to the cost, but save the handy work grinding parts down.

 

[pscook]

Could you not get someone to machine up a batch of small spacers and fit it between the 2 parts. Would add a tad more to the cost, but save the handy work grinding parts down.

The starter motor bolts to the PV cover, so you would have to slot the holes in the starter motor bracket as well with the spacer. You might be able to add a spacer between the two parts and then relieve the interface between the starter motor and the upper bendix housing (lower the starter motor inside the bendix housing).

Is the shaft longer overall, or is the shaft the same length with just a thicker gear?

 

[pigpen966]

The starter motor bolts to the PV cover, so you would have to slot the holes in the starter motor bracket as well with the spacer. You might be able to add a spacer between the two parts and then relieve the interface between the starter motor and the upper bendix housing (lower the starter motor inside the bendix housing).

Is the shaft longer overall, or is the shaft the same length with just a thicker gear?

The shaft is actually about 1mm shorter overall but the distance from the top of the drive gear to the keeper on the bottom is longer.