'Upgrade' to a KTM 350EXC from My GG 300EC?

[stay_upright]

Has any-one ridden both - I have but not raced the 350 or rode in the wet.

My impression of the KTM 350 was it felt as light as the GG 300 and similar power, similar abaility to pop wheelies. Good brakes (as good as the GG) suspension felt good out of the box but was not an exhaustive test. Build quality felt A1 on the KTM and the motor was nice and smooth.

I'm wondering whether to go for the KTM - I fancy a change but also I'm feeling a bit down on the GG at the moment - main problem s are
1) I stall too easily in very slow enduro conditions which is actually because the motor makes so much torque so I shift up until there is little power available - this could be 2nd or 3rd at walking pace - then it's too easy to stall as the motor is probably doing 800rpm or something.
2) The lack of build quality is getting to me - most races will see plastic shrouds coming away from the tank somewhere, the seat is cracked and has lost a lug etc etc
I'm thinking if I'm changng bikes I'd prefer something different (so maybe not another GG 2t) and I don't want to shell out ?1000 on a rekluse on this old bike to fix the stalling issue.

 

[gasgasman]

"Lack of build quality", on a 9 year old bike?

Things have changed.

 

[Brian VT]

Resale value will be decent on the 350 when you decide that you should have bought another GG 300 (maybe with e-start?).

 

[AZRickD]

I'm finally going to retire my 2005 GG DE250 this summer. Two more races to go (fingers crossed).

Fit and finish? Dude, it left the dock in Spain back in 2004.

I am still open to getting a new/used Gasser but since I have found myself getting healthy (Paleo Diet), I am now considering a different direction -- 2013 KTM200 XC-W. The KTM200 comes in at 209 lbs dry (95kg) with estart, and I find that I rarely use even half the power of the RB-Modded Gasser.

I went to the KTM Ride Days three weeks ago near Phoenix.

Video (helmet cam and rider interviews) here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABhAj2tAr4Y

I rode 14 bikes (2T and 4T) from 125cc up to two versions of the Mighty 500 -- mostly XC and XC-W models. Unfortunately they didn't bring the 200.

More direct to your question, I found that the KTM350 (XC-W, I think, not XC) was about as much power as I wanted. I certainly felt no need to up-map it. I felt very comfy on the KTM 250 XCF as it still had some spirit to it, while the KTM250 XCF-W was mellower, completely linear (great for mud and slick roots in the East, I suspect). But the linear, utility feel of the 250XCF-W didn't "thrill" me, if you know what I mean. I'm just a 2T kinda guy.

Of course, both 4-strokes felt heavy, and that was on a 2-mile desert loop. Imagine it after an hour or so?

My favorite bike (since the 200 was absent) was the 150 XC (the 150SX lacked flywheel and the CDI map was too aggressive/spinny). The 150XC was very fun to ride around. Yet, there was no long, technical hill climb to test its torque delivery, and no long sand wash either. I could only imagine what another 50cc in the 200 XC-W would be like (especially after a head squish mod, and maybe an APC carb mod after they get that check valve flooding cure figured out).

 

[GMP]

The 350s do not have the greatest reliability record either. If it goes pop it could be a part out. Price the engine parts, I know a guy with a KTM 250F went through this. $2500 + in parts to fix a dropped valve. KTM 4strokes also run hot in the woods unless you can maintain good speed and airflow. Even the KTM 2strokes steam a lot easier than a GG. From what you describe this may not be the case.

Why not just get a 250 two stroke? 300s are too much off the bottom in many cases, been my opinion for years thats why I race 250s.

 

[desertgasser300]

since I have found myself getting healthy (Paleo Diet).

I thought you looked thinner last weekend. It's not a diet, it's the way you choose to eat.

 

[hannesd]

just get a gasser 200 then, i went from a 300 to my 200 because i allso wasn't using even half of the potential of that 300 and still not even using all of the 200 but feel much more at easy with it, feel like i'm more able to handle the 200.

you could allso try to lower compression, change needle and/or adjust ignition timing to lower the torque, or add some FWW?

in my opinion, wheter you buy a orange or a gasser or a honda or whatever green,yellow, or bleuish bike, you'll allways have some sort of maintenance.
be glad your gasser's engine isn't giving you troubles as opposed to some other brands (especially 4t!).

just think twice before you go elswhere.
maybe you could rent that bike you had in mind, or swap for a few rides with a fellow rider? just to get a feeling if it fits you or not.

a newer bike will allways feel "better" ,but the cost it brings ,as opposed to fixing your older bike,might not allways be as rewarding as you would 've hoped.

hope this helps you out.

ciao, Hannes.

 

[Moto7man]

The bad thing about the new thumpers is that if the engine "grenades' on you then you have a 2k repair bill or you part out your bike. The new thumpers are actually "disposable" machines. Besides, look at Cody Webb, he just ditched his thumper, went to the new Beta two stroke and beat Graham Jarvis(also on a two stroke Berg). You are going backward if you get a thumper, the two strokes are the future.IMHO.

 

[Jakobi]

I'm backing Glenn on this. Get a new EC250R. You'll be blown away by the improvements to the fit and finsih. It'll be a fresh bike. The suspension package and chasis will feel different and be a vast improvement. The engine change of capacity will feel different also. It'll make sure you're in the right gear more often than not. The 250 does that to you! As a bonus you'll still get to hang out here, and know that you're running a reliable donk.

You want a 4 stroke because your bike is stallling?? Google Ktm 350 stalling or flame-out. A 4 stroke never wants to chugg down in the revs as well as 2.

 

[djroggen]

A KTM 350 would be the biggest letdown ever if you want a good woods bike!

 

[singletracker]

I have nothing against KTM other than the tall seat height, but I didn't care for my 2011 350sx. I bought it from Enduro Engineering who used it for a test bike, so it had all of the woods goodies and a suspension set up for the woods. I didn't care for it in the woods. The only place that I did like it was on my grass track, but in the woods it was too on and off and stalled too easily. The exc might be better in that regard. I was definitely faster in the woods on my 2009 250xcw, and if I pushed it I could match the times of the 350 with my 250xcw on the open grass track.

I'm guessing the newer exc/xc versions are better, but I don't have any desire to find out.

 

[siaknijustin]

I think that I have a valid opinion on your decision because I own an '05 EC 300 and my father owns a '12 KTM 350 EXC. I'm not sure that it's a fair comparison because one happens to be new and the other happens to be an older model. Having said that, I still prefer my gasser for the type of riding that I do. The more extreme the terrain, the more the GasGas is in its element. If I was going to buy a fourstroke, it would definitely be the 350.

Now let me tell you what I like and dislike about both bikes and know that I am in no way "brand biased."

The orange valve chomper likes:
-The single diaphragm clutch is excellent
-KTM fit and finish are top notch
-Aftermarket availability is damn near infinite
-The latest (and only the latest) generation PDS chassis and suspension work for me
-The motor is soft enough down low to be manageable and not exhausting and it revs forever
-Crazy efficient
-Strong biting brakes
-lightweight

The orange valve chomper dislikes:
-It has valves and requires frequent oil changes
-It runs hot and lean (US EXC has to be CARB compliant. Thanks Kalifornia. ) My dad's would boil over from prolonged idling before I installed a radiator fan.
-I'm not sold on EFI. On/Off throttle transition is jerky.
-It's hard to start even when using the button
-More engine braking than I prefer
-It has valves

Gasser pinger likes:
-No valves!
-PRECISE handling!
-Starts easy; hot or cold
-Decent luggability
-light clutch pull
-Forks (I have 50mm zokes )
-Never boils over
-Smooth motor that puts down great traction and even revs out decent for being a 300
-Did I mention that it doesn't have valves?

Gasser Pinger dislikes:
-I have to jet it (C'mon May!)
-The motor is a little vibey (not bad at all compared to most 300cc + plus 2 strokes)
-Limited Aftermarket
-Air filter access is tighter than I like
-The bike feels heavy when not in motion
-Ground clearance is a little lacking
-2k-2 ignition on mine (someone trade me a 2k-3 )

...And there's my opinion FWIW.

 

[GMP]

I had this 4stroke fever 11 years ago, and being a tech guy, fell victim to an '02 Cannondale 440. I spent many hours re-engineering that thing to be a reliable woods bike, and I did get there, but thats as far as it went. No amount of EFI mapping tricks could take that big 4stroke feel in the woods away, and I sold it some months later and went back to a GG EC250. I like to ride 250Fs on occasion, but do not want to commit to one as my only bike.

 

[Bandit9]

The bad thing about the new thumpers is that if the engine "grenades' on you then you have a 2k repair bill or you part out your bike. The new thumpers are actually "disposable" machines. Besides, look at Cody Webb, he just ditched his thumper, went to the new Beta two stroke and beat Graham Jarvis(also on a two stroke Berg). You are going backward if you get a thumper, the two strokes are the future.IMHO.

So the fact of Webb choosing a 2 stroke caused Jarvis's Bib Mousse to come apart while he was leading????

Webb got lucky, but luck is part of racing.

2 strokes have always ruled the woods and extreme enduro.

4 strokes rule MX, and that isn't changing. It is just physics.

 

[DWreck]

My last two bikes have been 300's (04 DE300 and 08 300XC-W) and I truly love the motors on both of them. I have gotten to spend a fair amount of time on a buddies 12 350 XC-W and love the motor on it. It is easy to ride, takes me less energy to go fast on it but.....and this is why I have not bought one is it stalls way easier and takes longer to get lit once it does stall and it doesn't have that grunt that gets the front wheel up in an emergency when you come up on an unexpected obstacle.

Add in the fact that I have never worked on one (and would have to learn) and would be absolutely terrified to keep one for more than two years and would never buy one used.

 

[Caravan Monster]

Stay_Upright, what sort of riding are you doing ? Context may be relevant here. Especially if riding club enduros in the midlands, where I know I found the EC300 just too powerful [for my limited abilities ] on the wet clay that is common here. I'm enjoying the EC 200 much more. I'd be looking at 250 four strokes if I wanted to go down that path in this part of the world.

 

[swazi_matt]

I too have considered a change to 4t, but only since the Beta 350,s arrived.

I have ridden wr450 and crx250 and thought the 450 was too much and the 250 too little, i recently rode a ktm 350 and liked the power delivery and also the fact that the engine braking did not send me over the bars, but it is still orange!

But for now i am going to carry on on the GG, it is paid for and is running fine

 

[Jakobi]

I've been riding my 250F around the yard a bit lately. I do like the bottom end punch and the super linear power delivery. I don't like the engine braking or the lack of total power. I'd say if riding below 4th gear it would be perfect but it really lacks oomph up in the higher gears. I might get around to showing it a trail again one of these days. I have no doubt I'd be riding the tits off it everywhere.

 

[Simmo737]

My brother laws rmx450z with tricked out Showa rg3 suspension and Aussie factory mapping is the best bike I've ever ridden, until you get into a rock garden, ledges, bar to bar trees, rutted downhills, technical creek beds or tight single track, then you have the gas cap of and are looking for a match, apart from that it is great.

 

[GMP]

All the 450s are like that. My brother had a TE450 that was a good bike in the open rough trails but turned into a school bus in the trees. That bike had a well jetted carb and it was still a handfull to ride smooth. Between that, the stalling, and overheating, you want to sell it to the first guy that comes by on the trail. A Rekluse helps a lot, but its still too much of a bike for tech woods.