'11 EC200 Jetting Help

[liv2day]

Gents -

Finally got around to checking the jetting and here's what it is:

42 pilot
R1470 Needle @#2 (looks like Ktm 125 needle?)
172 main
A/S 1.75 turns out
#7 slide
AS1 carb(screw top type...right?)

Most riding is between 40-50 degrees this time of year
1000-4000 ft elevation

Riding is tight and technical with lots of lugging, some winding it out when climbing hills.

Would like to try and reduce spooge, throttle response is good. Maybe a leaner pilot (40?) or moving a/s out to 2.5?

Looked through all the posts in the jetting thread and didn't see another '11 200...lol.

Thanks!

 

[Jakobi]

I'll do some research on the needle sizes when I get a chance (diameter, taper profiles, etc). That should help make some recommendations.

What you need to do is determine where you think the bike could be improved. Does it start and idle well? How is response off idle? Does it hesitate at all like its gasping, or burble a bit and then hit hard, or is it instant? Testing should be done under some load, 3rd gear. 1/4 throttle response, half throttle, and WOT. Same deal.

Easiest way is to take some tape and mark the throttle and housing. Mark a line across both with the throttle shut. Then again wide open (mark on throttle against housing). Fill in the gaps to index the points (1/4, 1/2, 3/4).

 

[liv2day]

What you need to do is determine where you think the bike could be improved.

Thanks for the help Jakobi - appreciate any input you have.

Throttle response on the bike is very good, no lean bogs and no burbles at any point in the range.

The biggest thing I want to do is try to reduce the drool coming from the pipe - which is why I also started the 50:1 to 60:1 thread. Given the responses in that thread, I'm going to stick with 50:1 and focus on jetting changes.

I don't know anything about that needle, but being at the #2 clip is on the lean side. I don't have much experience on the jetting stuff, but did play with it when I had my KTM 300. I also had the Q on that bike and dealt with spooge early on, but it cleared up when I found a good combination of pilot jet and needle (don't spend a ton of time on the main).

My gut tells me to try going to a leaner pilot - like a 40 - and possibly switching the needle to #3. I'd probably try the 40 pilot first and see how that responded, then switch the needle clip to #3 if it felt too lean.

One thing I'm going to try this weekend is turning the a/s out to 2.5 turns and see what effect that has.

I'm good with being a little on the rich side, but want to get ride of that drool.

 

[hannesd]

are the pr?- '11 200 that different for jetting?
there's not that many different carbs used in these bikes during the years,right?
you can allways try going 1 step leaner then what you have, and just see,feel and listen what it does...
but i do think that a needle is allso a good thing to change, it changes the whole way the bike rides.
it's allso rather a personal choice, thee are different kinds of needles that work for your bike, but maybe not for YOU
the needle more or less descides the caracter of the bike.

put some work into research,look for other riders with the same bike, see what they did...

good luck and enjoy your "new" bike soon

Hannes.

btw i allso have drool, just not at all when i ride more on the pipe... oil with a lower flash point would do beter they say here
just hard to know what brand suites your riding style

 

[firffighter]

Hey Brad,

That is a Honda code needle I believe. I have that same needle for my KTM200. They work really well on the KTM 200's and are popular with that crowd.

I would agree on trying a 40 pilot. I have played with jetting for years and one thing I notice is that our bikes run better here in the NW with a pretty lean pilot.

As far as spooge, I have been down the same road and have come to the conclusion that if the bike is running well, then I can live with the spooge. So many factors go into a bike producing spooge: How clean is the PV? How are the piston and ring wear? Has the silencer received fresh packing? Is jetting spot on? Is there a lot of carbon built up in the pipe itself (resonator)? Are you running a quality oil?

Sounds like you're one the right track and amsoil is the best I've run in terms of spooge.

BTW, we still need to hook up for a ride!

 

[Jakobi]

One change at a time and evaluate. If the needle is good where it is, I'd focus on the pilot, or possibly the same needle taper with a leaner diameter.

 

[john r b]

Have you measured your squish??This is what I'm running w/ great results.
6.5 slide=sudco
45 pilot
172main
Nozh needle 2nd clip from top (stock needle)
2012 xc 200 w/ cannon r/c silencer.

 

[liv2day]

I would agree on trying a 40 pilot. I have played with jetting for years and one thing I notice is that our bikes run better here in the NW with a pretty lean pilot.
BTW, we still need to hook up for a ride!

Hey Russ - thanks for the input, it's good to know that you've had positive experience with a leaner pilot I'll hit the local shop and get one if they have it in stock.

And we definitely need to hit the trails together soon!

 

[hamilton]

Have you measured your squish??This is what I'm running w/ great results.
6.5 slide=sudco
45 pilot
172main
Nozh needle 2nd clip from top (stock needle)
2012 xc 200 w/ cannon r/c silencer.

John and I are both running the same jetting in our 12 200's. The bike just runs awesome with this set up. I don't know if it will work on the 11. Air box is different, maybe the pipe also. Mine works good from sea level to 2500 ft. Good luck jetting takes alot of test and tune time.

 

[liv2day]

Have you measured your squish??

I've read about measuring squish when doing a top end, but haven't done anything like this - ever (lol). Is it the thickness of the gasket...and is it something that's relatively easily checked?

My hope is I'll be able to address the spooge issue with minor jetting changes. Since the bike runs well right now, I don't want to mess anything up by "going drastic"

Do you know if the stock needle on the EC200 was also the NOZH? I'm the 2nd owner on this bike - only had what came in the carb when I picked it up. I have no idea what the base jetting was - it's not listed in the manual.

 

[firffighter]

Another quick note. Having a head mod done to clean up the squish works wonders on smaller cc bikes. I did it on 2 KDX's and on my current KTM 200. It cleans things up to run super crisp and clean. Ron Black (RB Designs) is local for us and does awesome work! Just something to consider. Pretty cheap too.

 

[Jakobi]

Another quick note. Having a head mod done to clean up the squish works wonders on smaller cc bikes. I did it on 2 KDX's and on my current KTM 200. It cleans things up to run super crisp and clean. Ron Black (RB Designs) is local for us and does awesome work! Just something to consider. Pretty cheap too.

Amen!

I have 4 hours (one ride) on my 2013 250R. Heads due back from TSP any day now. By far the best bang for buck mod on ANY 2T. Easier to jet, less variation in jetting/more stable, improved power, and improved economy. If it makes the bike too angy just gear her up to tame her down.

 

[liv2day]

Guys...some follow-up questions on the needles.

Which needles should I look into purchasing for my 200?

Is the NOZH a good needle to test with?

I see some people talking about the CCL (or maybe it was CCR - not the band ) - one of these?

Any other "good" needles to get that work well with a #7 slide?

Russ (or Jakobi) - about the head mod...what exactly is done with that modification? And more importantly, what's the typical cost? Any longevity issues when doing something like that?

 

[Jakobi]

Russ (or Jakobi) - about the head mod...what exactly is done with that modification? And more importantly, what's the typical cost? Any longevity issues when doing something like that?

Price will vary depending where you go and what they do. Cycle playground, or RB get good reviews in the states and are likely way cheaper than here in Aus. All comes down to wages and time.

A decent engine builder will reduce the squish clearance (piston to head clearance), match the angle of the squish band to the dome, and then correct the volume to set the compression ratio to suit your fuels (or engine characteristics). Its basically just a blue print which will improve efficiency. No negative effects on engine life.

 

[hannesd]

i'm at this setting :
MJ 180 (may try 178 for more rev)
PJ 40
needle CCL 3rd notch from top

no head mods done, idles more or less ok.
i did notice i have slide no 6 !?
but this setting's real good to me.

oh, and mine's a 2001 ec 200 (AS1?)

ciao, Hannes.

 

[firffighter]

Hey Brad. Gave you the link to Ron Black. The haed mod cleans up the squish and like Jacobi said it is the best bang for your buck when it comes to 2-strokes, especially smaller cc bikes that can be more sensitive to jetting.

Jacobi's description is spot on. I would use these 2 words: linear and crisp. It makes the power delivery linear and makes things nice and crisps throughout. I just had mine done on my KTM 200 and it is so worth it! You'll never have to play with your jetting again.

Ron does awesome work, is local and has very quick turnaround.


http://www.rb-designs.com/gasgas-head-mod.htm

 

[paulos]

Price will vary depending where you go and what they do. Cycle playground, or RB get good reviews in the states and are likely way cheaper than here in Aus. All comes down to wages and time.

A decent engine builder will reduce the squish clearance (piston to head clearance), match the angle of the squish band to the dome, and then correct the volume to set the compression ratio to suit your fuels (or engine characteristics). Its basically just a blue print which will improve efficiency. No negative effects on engine life.

Hey mate, did you send yours O/S or is there someone in Australia you could recommend? Cheers

 

[Jakobi]

Hey mate, did you send yours O/S or is there someone in Australia you could recommend? Cheers

http://www.twostrokeperformance.com.au/

Its not cheap, especially when comparing to what you can get them done for in the states. He does a thorough job though and takes the time to work out what you're trying to achieve before he gets stuck into the job. In my case with my last head I just asked him to set it to certain tolerances and compression ratios and he made it happen.

 

[liv2day]

Ron does awesome work, is local and has very quick turnaround.
http://www.rb-designs.com/gasgas-head-mod.htm

Thanks Russ - that's definitely in the "budgetable" range

So, stupid question - what do I have to take apart to give to him? Sorry for the ignorance, but this is beyond anything I've messed with previously. I see that he's just over the hill from me in Sherwood, that's frickin' awesome.

Back on the needle note, can someone recommend a leaner needle than what I'm currently running? Is the CCL needle hannesd mentioned leaner? How about that NOZH needle - is that leaner?

I'm thinking that trying a leaner pilot and slightly leaner needle will help clear the spooge and get my plug in the right ballpark.

Of course, all that might be moot with the head mod?

 

[hannesd]

Back on the needle note, can someone recommend a leaner needle than what I'm currently running? Is the CCL needle hannesd mentioned leaner? How about that NOZH needle - is that leaner?

i've looked things up, before the CCL ,i came from NOZG
just to give you the info i had.
that was def richer then the CCL

good luck and have fun riding soon again

Hannes.