'11 EC200 Jetting Help

[roverhybrids]

I'm running JD blue needle in mine with a #7 slide. Can't remember other details right now....
spooge is minimal.
I haven't had time to dial it in, but this is the best my 200 has been so far.
Problem for me is that it has a lean to rich hit right on the bottom, which makes for a spinning tire in the technical stuff.
I've got a box of needles and a few carbs I plan on trying at some point. 36mm ASII, 36-38 oval bore KTM ASII as well as the stock 38mm ASI.

 

[liv2day]

I'm running JD blue needle in mine with a #7 slide. Can't remember other details right now....
spooge is minimal.
I haven't had time to dial it in, but this is the best my 200 has been so far.
Problem for me is that it has a lean to rich hit right on the bottom, which makes for a spinning tire in the technical stuff.

What's your typical elevation and temp range rover? If it's close to what we have up here - anyone know what needle is akin to the JD blue...assuming you're running the stock 38mm AS1 carb in there?

If that's a good mix for 1/4 and above, maybe a richer pilot and a/s at 1 or so...or maybe just refine with the a/s?

Think I'll probably check into getting the head mod done...assuming I know how to actually get RB the head

 

[firffighter]

Brad,

Fortunately, getting the head off is fairly easy:

*Remove seat and gas tank.
*Drain out your coolant.
*Remove your spark plug.
*Remove the coolant line coming into the head.
*Remove the head mount that connects head to top tube on your frame
*Should just have the bolts connecting head to cylinder left.

That's it. I think.

Ron also does a carb mod, which I've done on former KDX's, and it is also a great mod. If you are close with your jetting though, I'd recommend just the head mod.

 

[liv2day]

Brad,

Fortunately, getting the head off is fairly easy:

Awesome, thanks Russ

A quick update on the spooge, I turned the a/s out to 2.25 and it was quite a bit better. I still had some drool down the bottom of the pipe, but not as much as my previous ride. I think going to the 40 pilot will be a step in the right direction, then maybe a leaner needle than what's in there now. It's in the 2nd position, so I also thought of moving it to #1, but won't do that until I get the 40 pilot in there and see how she goes.

If we get a stretch of crummy weather, I'll be pulling the head and getting it over to RB; sounds like the perfect thing to do

 

[roverhybrids]

What's your typical elevation and temp range rover? If it's close to what we have up here - anyone know what needle is akin to the JD blue...assuming you're running the stock 38mm AS1 carb in there?

If that's a good mix for 1/4 and above, maybe a richer pilot and a/s at 1 or so...or maybe just refine with the a/s?

Think I'll probably check into getting the head mod done...assuming I know how to actually get RB the head

my elevation is 1000-3000
temps are 30-75f

I haven't done the head mod, but my squish is 1.6mm. Port timing though my be off as the piston is above the exhaust port .
I got my bike used and didn't get much info from previous owner. My current 38mm AS1carb has a funky spacer inside it necking it down.

 

[liv2day]

Need some help with ordering needles...like what the heck to order and how to decipher what I need to order...lol.

I'm looking through the information on jetsrus.com and need help. Do I need to look at the PWK38 information to find the ride needle? Where do I find the CCL needles referred to earlier?

Sorry for what is probably a stupid question, but I have no idea how to connect the dots

 

[Jakobi]

http://www.jetsrus.com/a_jets_by_carburetor_type/needle_keihin_N427-48.html

These are for the Sudco needles (3 letter codes).

Any of the OEM Needles you want will need to be ordered through a dealer.
NEDx/NECx - Suzuki, I can supply part numbers, but if they look up say 2007 RM250 on their system they'll have them.
N3Ex/N3Cx - Yamaha/Ktm (YZ250 05+/300 EXC most years)
NOZx - Ktm

I'd suggest going for genuine Keihin jets as well. Much better toleranced than after market.

 

[liv2day]

http://www.jetsrus.com/a_jets_by_carburetor_type/needle_keihin_N427-48.html

These are for the Sudco needles (3 letter codes).

Any of the OEM Needles you want will need to be ordered through a dealer.
NEDx/NECx - Suzuki, I can supply part numbers, but if they look up say 2007 RM250 on their system they'll have them.
N3Ex/N3Cx - Yamaha/Ktm (YZ250 05+/300 EXC most years)
NOZx - Ktm

I'd suggest going for genuine Keihin jets as well. Much better toleranced than after market.

Thanks for that Jakobi...still need some help (and I feel like a dunce).

I'm looking at that chart and don't see a CCL needle anywhere - I see CCK, CCJ, and other needles?

Talk about feeling inadequate - seems like I'm reading a foreign language when looking at that chart.

So, I have a R1470 needle in the carb right now. I see that in the example for conversion of DGL (what is L1 anyway?) - but have no clue what that actually means

My basic thought is I want to go slightly leaner than the R1470 needle that's in there right now (though I don't think mine has a N at the end...like in the conversion chart).

 

[Jakobi]

http://www.jetsrus.com/individual_parts/017_464_su.html

CCL was right below CCK in the pick list.

As for decoding yours, the L1 is the length. It basically determines the range at which the clip positions become active so if you were on the top clip of a certain needle you could keep the same diameter and angle of the taper, and just shift the length so that it would be in the middle clip.

For example decoding the DGL to a CCL, it has slightly less taper so will provide a little more fuel on the needle, however the G vs C L1 length means that the later will be around 3 to 4 clip positions leaner. Quite a significant change.

 

[liv2day]

For example decoding the DGL to a CCL, it has slightly less taper so will provide a little more fuel on the needle, however the G vs C L1 length means that the later will be around 3 to 4 clip positions leaner. Quite a significant change.

This finally clicked (sort of) when a buddy sent me an old chart he has:

In checking the differences, your point is completely clear - going from my current needle (DGL) to the CCL needle would be a drastic change...right?

So, if I wanted to go to a slightly leaner needle for testing purposes, would I look at the DGM? That appears to be one step to the right - which is leaner when looking at the top of the chart...if I'm reading it correctly?

 

[Jakobi]

The M will be leaner only on the diameter of the needle which will work in conjunction with the pilot and only effect the running below 1/4 throttle.

 

[liv2day]

The M will be leaner only on the diameter of the needle which will work in conjunction with the pilot and only effect the running below 1/4 throttle.

So, if I read that chart correctly and what you have above, would trying one of the CGL needles be better?

I think my main target is to lean things out to the 1/2 throttle point. How does the lean to rich 1/4 to 3/4 throttle scale work as it relates to the needles? Do you move up and to the right to get leaner in that section of the throttle response?

 

[Jakobi]

The lean -> rich 1/4 to 3/4 relates to both the taper and the length, as they both have an effect in this area. The length is just a clip positon change, so if using a CGL you would run it in the same clip, and it should run similar, however the taper is leaner, meaning as you open the throttle more, it will begin to lean off more aggressively from the diameter.

My suggestion would be that if you want to go that path, purchase a few different ones and spend the time testing.

Speaking of testing, what (if anything) have you tried with your current setup? Have you tried lifting the clip one pos?

 

[liv2day]

Speaking of testing, what (if anything) have you tried with your current setup? Have you tried lifting the clip one pos?

Thanks Jakobi...it's slowly starting to sink in..lol.

I replaced the 42 pilot with a 40 this weekend, though I haven't had a chance to ride the bike yet (dealing with a fuel tank issue ). My plan of action is to test the 40 pilot and see how she does.

If I'm still getting a fair amount of drool from the pipe, I'm going to switch the needle from #2 to #1 and see how that goes. Given that's the leanest setting on the needle, my next step would be to look at a slightly leaner needle to try...hence all the questions

 

[Danj56]

I'm running the same bike here in New England and I am running a 40 pilot but am also using a JD kit. I don't think anything I've done has help the drool coming out of the pipe

 

[liv2day]

I'm running the same bike here in New England and I am running a 40 pilot but am also using a JD kit. I don't think anything I've done has help the drool coming out of the pipe

As soon as I have a chance to test the bike, I'll report back and let you know what I find.

Out of curiosity, which JD needle are you running and where? And more importantly, what's your typical elevation and temp range?

Given your location, the temps right now probably aren't conducive to riding though...lol.

 

[hannesd]

Thanks Jakobi...it's slowly starting to sink in..lol.

I replaced the 42 pilot with a 40 this weekend, though I haven't had a chance to ride the bike yet (dealing with a fuel tank issue ). My plan of action is to test the 40 pilot and see how she does.

If I'm still getting a fair amount of drool from the pipe, I'm going to switch the needle from #2 to #1 and see how that goes. Given that's the leanest setting on the needle, my next step would be to look at a slightly leaner needle to try...hence all the questions

try one thing at a time, or you won't be able to tell what made it better or worse... that PJ might make a difference allready! more snap!

 

[Danj56]

Given your location, the temps right now probably aren't conducive to riding though...lol.

What are you talking about we have an enduro next week.
I'm running the red needle in the second from top position and most of the riding is right around sea level to slightly higher when we ride in the hills.

 

[liv2day]

What are you talking about we have an enduro next week.
I'm running the red needle in the second from top position and most of the riding is right around sea level to slightly higher when we ride in the hills.

LOL - what part of New England? I figured the crazy freezing temps heading east right now would make it too cold to ride. My buddy in WI send me a pic yesterday - -6 degrees on his drive to work Polar vortex won't do our 2Ts any good.

At least the cold air is nice and dense - she'll make good power

Need to get out and test the leaner pilot and then it'd be a clip leaner on the needle. We'll see....

 

[Danj56]

60th year of the Netra Snow Run in CT. Feb. 9th. Only time it gets postponed is when it's too warm. I've been stupid enough to take my bike out in -9?F one year. I was much younger and dumber then.