200 jetting with NOZI?

[liv2day]

Trying to get the new 200 dialed in, ironically it came with a different slide than my 200?

Anyway, the bike came from CO and was lean, so I made these initial changes:

175 main
42 pilot
NOZI #2
A/S 1.5 turns
ASII 38mm carb (I think...has the screw top...how do you tell anyway?)

Bike starts easily, a little sluggish off idle and burbles through 3/4 throttle. It also came with a CHN needle - haven't looked into the specs on that yet.

Not being familiar with the NOZI, any input on swapping to something else? I was going to go with the same as mine, but don't know because of the slide difference. I'll probably throw a 40 pilot in at some point, unless I can just change the needle.

Any input greatly appreciated.

 

[Jakobi]

CHN is for emissions control on a well restricted engine. Won't work, and not even worth trying. Its stupid lean.

What jetting are you running in your bike?

 

[liv2day]

What jetting are you running in your bike?

I have the following:

172 main
40 pilot
A/S 1.5
R1470 #2
7 slide

Bike runs perfectly, still have drool, but plug is the perfect color.

 

[Jakobi]

Try your jetting (inc your slide) and see how it runs. Nice quick test.

What is your slide and what is his?

The NOZx is the half clip variance to the N1Ex that comes stock with everything else. The I is the same diameter as a W.

 

[liv2day]

Try your jetting (inc your slide) and see how it runs. Nice quick test.

What is your slide and what is his?

The NOZx is the half clip variance to the N1Ex that comes stock with everything else. The I is the same diameter as a W.

I can swap the slides around, but was hoping to order a needle or two today to play with this coming weekend.

My 200 has a #7 slide, this 200 has a #6 slide. The original owner might have swapped it out; surprised at the difference as they're both '11 EC200 Six Days.

Anyway, I'm hoping to avoid spending the chunk of change on the slide. Any suggestions on needles given the #6 slide?

 

[Jakobi]

No hands on experience with the 200's so bit hard to recommend a starting point. Richer slide will likely just req a bit leaner diameter/pilot.

 

[liv2day]

No hands on experience with the 200's so bit hard to recommend a starting point. Richer slide will likely just req a bit leaner diameter/pilot.

I just read through 10 pages of posts on the KTM forum for someone jetting a '13 200 XCW; amazing how much knowledge that guy Jerseydevil has (not taking anything away from you or the other guys on this forum that have contributed to my knowledge ).

I'm going to order the NECH and NEDH needles and start with those. I have a feeling I'll end up dropping the pilot down to 40 like my 200, need to order one of those as well.

If the #6 slide is slightly richer than the #7 slide, then I'd guess that a leaner pilot combined with maybe a clip leaner on the needle would be in order. Sound logic there?

 

[Jakobi]

The slide covers the lower throttle openings so probably not so much a clip position adjustment. Might be the difference between a NEDH and a NEDW, etc but you have the right idea and should get quite close or at least really narrow things down with the approach you're taking.

Jerseydevil indeed knows a thing or two about jetting. My inbox over on that forum is full of correspondance from him, mostly in regards to another carb.

 

[liv2day]

Had a chance to do a couple of quick tests with the NECH and NEDH needles in my wife's 200 last night. I did mess around with the a/s and moved it to 2.25 turns out prior to switching needles - still need to get that fine tuned given the #6 slide and 42PJ.

From what I gleaned on KTMTalk, the NECH needle is .5 clip leaner than the NEDH, so I started with this (NECH) in #3 position. Rode the bike up and down our gravel road and throttle response was much improved. It still had a decent hit at the 1/4 throttle, so I came back and decided to try the NEDH needle and go "drastic" (just to see the difference) by starting off at #4.

It was a great test for me personally because that needle & clip combo was way too rich - completely bogged the bike when getting close to 1/4 throttle.

Back into the garage and switched it to the #2 position - with the theory that this should be 1.5 richer than the NECH in #3. My hope is it'll smooth that hit at 1/4 throttle by being a bit richer comparatively - does that sound right?

I didn't get a chance to test it as it was time for the boys' to go to bed...and ringing a 2-stroke would get me in the dog house...LOL.

More testing to come either tonight or tomorrow

 

[Jakobi]

NEDH#2 would be half a clip leaner than NECH#3. I'll list them in order, leanest to richest. Clip 1 behing the highest (needle orientated how it sits in the carb)

NECH#1
NEDH#1
NECH#2
NEDH#2
NECH#3
NEDH#3
NECH#4
NEDH#4
etc

I'm glad you took the time to play a little as this is where you'll learn the most. Its one thing to hear someone try and describe what a rich bike feels like, and another to experience it.

 

[liv2day]

NEDH#2 would be half a clip leaner than NECH#3.

Gah..so much for my math skills.

So, if my understand is correct, the NECH needle is .5 clip leaner than the the NEDH needle - yes?

So, if I have the NEDH needle at #3, this will be .5 clip richer than the same setting on the NECH - yes?

If that's the case, then I should probably switch the NEDH need to #3 to get her a little bit richer. And if that doesn't quite do it, put the NECH needle back in and go to #4 which would then be another .5 step richer than the NEDH and might be exactly where I want to be.

I already know that NEDH needle at #4 is too rich...will a half step make that big of a difference?

Thanks for all the guidance Jake...appreciated more than I can say!

 

[Jakobi]

Correct! The C is a half a clip leaner than the D/The D half a clip richer than the C.

If you want to try the setting between the who you have tried (NECH#3 and NEDH#4 - this is 1.5 clips richer) you can either try NEDH#3 (half a clip richer than NECH#3) or NECH#4 (a full clip richer than NECH#3).

After that, don't rule out giving NEDH#2 a go too. If its too lean it'll be pretty noticable. Feel really nice and crisp around the yard but will feel less ballsy or a bit flat under load. You might notice it surge forward as you roll off the throttle, or you might pull the clutch/stop and notice the revs don't settle straight back down (hangs for a bit). Take heed of the lean warning signs. Ignoring them leads to bad outcomes.

Thats where personal preference starts to come in. A richer bike will blubber a bit more but will feel like its got more grunt a gear high than one thats jetted crisp and likes to have the gears shuffled some more.

 

[liv2day]

After that, don't rule out giving NEDH#2 a go too. If its too lean it'll be pretty noticable. Feel really nice and crisp around the yard but will feel less ballsy or a bit flat under load. You might notice it surge forward as you roll off the throttle, or you might pull the clutch/stop and notice the revs don't settle straight back down (hangs for a bit). Take heed of the lean warning signs. Ignoring them leads to bad outcomes.

Sweet...it's sinking in a bit

Hopefully, I'll be able to test tonight. I'll start with NEDH #3 and see how that goes, then probably change to #2 and give that a test too. I haven't noticed any lean surges or the revs staying up after pulling the clutch; though I haven't tested leaner settings on the needle yet either.

Thanks again Jake

 

[liv2day]

Success!

I tried the NEDH at #3 and it was good, but still felt a bit rich when puttering around and then rolling on. I came back in and switched to #2 and that's the ticket

I also messed with the idle screw and a/s - what a big difference that makes to off idle performance! I pulled the idle screw way out and then adjusted the a/s to compensate. She idles nice and low now and I have the a/s at 1.25 turns out. It's silky smooth going from idle through 3/4. I haven't tested WO yet as that really irritates my neighbors - going to hit that when we're out riding next weekend.

Thanks again for all your help Jake, it's been huge. Now, I have to tackle my brother-in-law's 250

 

[Jakobi]

Cheers! Braap!

 

[paulos]

Apologies for tagging on to your post. My 05 200 has a #5 slide and I'm running a jd red needle at the leanest clip. I wouldn't mind doing a bit more fine tuning to the off-idle performance, would a NECH needle be a reasonable starting point given the richer slide I'm running? Cheers

 

[Jakobi]

Yeah H diameter should cross over pretty well with the JD red.

 

[MJC]

Apologies for tagging on to your post. My 05 200 has a #5 slide and I'm running a jd red needle at the leanest clip. I wouldn't mind doing a bit more fine tuning to the off-idle performance, would a NECH needle be a reasonable starting point given the richer slide I'm running? Cheers

That H diameter Suzuki needle should be fine, but with that #5 slide in there you will have a really hard time getting the bike to run cleanly on the bottom end. It's to rich, and there is to much crossover between the slide the pilot and needle for a smaller pilot or leaner clip position, or both to make up for it being so rich. Ideally you would need a 6.5 or #7 slide.

 

[paulos]

That H diameter Suzuki needle should be fine, but with that #5 slide in there you will have a really hard time getting the bike to run cleanly on the bottom end. It's to rich, and there is to much crossover between the slide the pilot and needle for a smaller pilot or leaner clip position, or both to make up for it being so rich. Ideally you would need a 6.5 or #7 slide.

I have wondered about that. I haven't seen anyone else with a #5 slide in a 200. Might see if a mate has any different slides I could borrow.

 

[paulos]

If I can't find one without having to spend $100's, is it feasible to file some material off the bottom of the #5 slide I have?