2011 six days fork fixed (kinda)
- Thread starter matt_tidball
- Start date
thumperrider1
New member
I would really have to leave that up to the tuner.
BrentMartell
New member
Someone mentioned that there are riders who will not post on this subject and that person is dead on correct. I suppose it depends on how you look at Forums and the value they provide. IMO a forum that is designed for KTM or for Gas Gas rarely brings in people who brand bash, period. I have seen a lot of this behavior on places like Thumpertalk where multiple brand loyalists are present at the same time. However, in a specific forum, such as this one, people tend to freely discuss issue's and make statements they believe are true with the general attitude they are helping or seeking help with a specific problem. Rarely will a person buy a GG, sign up, and then tear down the brand. For me, I would just get rid of the bike and move on.
Moving on. I personally value all of this information since I am not made of money and need to fix problems, if they exsist, on my own. Some of you state things like send it to a pro. IMO that is just not acceptable. Some people are very capable and willing to do their own work. They just need advise or help. I personally don't find it helpful to be told to send it to someone to have it fixed. I am the type of person who wants to understand the process and in turn understand the mechanics of what is going on. I really like being able to tune my own suspension during a race, a training session, or a trail ride and actually know what I am doing.
Thank you for those who built this forum and thank you for those willing to help all of us non-factory guys out since we don't have bottom-less bank accounts.
Moving on. I personally value all of this information since I am not made of money and need to fix problems, if they exsist, on my own. Some of you state things like send it to a pro. IMO that is just not acceptable. Some people are very capable and willing to do their own work. They just need advise or help. I personally don't find it helpful to be told to send it to someone to have it fixed. I am the type of person who wants to understand the process and in turn understand the mechanics of what is going on. I really like being able to tune my own suspension during a race, a training session, or a trail ride and actually know what I am doing.
Thank you for those who built this forum and thank you for those willing to help all of us non-factory guys out since we don't have bottom-less bank accounts.
twowheels
New member
Brent: There are benefits to working with professionals ... they/we get paid for our knowledge and experience and tools etc. You get a job done that you may not otherwise have been able to get done, either in terms of time or money.
On the other hand, I'm all for guys working on their own equipment - the knowledge base increases, you're a better rider for it, and you didn't drop a bunch of cash and wait two weeks while your suspension or engine bounced from one shipping dock to another.
I've sold suspension codes in the past and had the rider do the work himself, and all parties were fine with that, because he was competent, the forks didn't leave his garage, and no time or money was lost on shipping. He did not pass on that code however - that would be like stealing software
, and likely not directly applicable to another rider anywayFeel free to post your concerns with your suspension, and guys (myself and others) will point you in the direction you need to go (eg. increase your spring rate, reduce low speed compression) but you're likely in for a more iterative process than if you sent it out to me (or Les, or whomever).
Enjoy the ride !
thumperrider1
New member
Since you are a faster rider than most those 48mm CC forks coming on the race model would probably be great for you.
If I won the lottery I'd sponsor you and buy you a race model.
If I won the lottery I'd sponsor you and buy you a race model.
BrentMartell
New member
Two wheels: I don't disagree with you. However, when a guy pukes out $8k for a bike and is not happy some people feel pretty emotional that the poor guy wants to do his own work. I really hate that some people feel like the average joe is not capable of fixing his own bike. There is no patent for turning a wrench.
When I was at 6 days in Portugal I was struggling with the KTM settings. I asked my team mates for advice and we all compared notes. I got some good advice, dialed the bike in, and settled in. This was free advice that was shared amongst motobretheren.
Having said that I have spent some time helping a guy who bought a 2011 300 here in my area. He is a friend and we have been working on his bike to dial it for him. Interestingly, his bike and mine came set up much differently from the factory. I am tearing his forks apart this week to see why they felt, in stock form, so much differently than mine. It is strange how much different the two IDENTICAL bikes are from each other.
I love my GG though. This bike has been through a couple thousand miles of hell. I wish I could have shipped it to Finland to race the ISDE this year but I can not afford 2 bikes. Grrrrr Need to buy lotto tickets.
When I was at 6 days in Portugal I was struggling with the KTM settings. I asked my team mates for advice and we all compared notes. I got some good advice, dialed the bike in, and settled in. This was free advice that was shared amongst motobretheren.
Having said that I have spent some time helping a guy who bought a 2011 300 here in my area. He is a friend and we have been working on his bike to dial it for him. Interestingly, his bike and mine came set up much differently from the factory. I am tearing his forks apart this week to see why they felt, in stock form, so much differently than mine. It is strange how much different the two IDENTICAL bikes are from each other.
I love my GG though. This bike has been through a couple thousand miles of hell. I wish I could have shipped it to Finland to race the ISDE this year but I can not afford 2 bikes. Grrrrr Need to buy lotto tickets.
matt_tidball
New member
Interesting hearing about others having shim stacks fall apart on dissasembly. The first time we took mine apart the first stack fell apart and the other was loose. Does anyone from GG factory read these posts? If they do, do they have any feedback or solutions. It seems that the factory could get us a baseline that is closer to rideable. I realize that everyone has different preferances, but nobody can ride my bike the way the forks came. I had a 145 lb pro try it, and a 170 lb slow guy ride it. Both said in stock form it was unrideable. I did ride a regular 2011 300 and the suspension was way too soft compared to the mx rock I got. Are all the forks the same on the same model (six day to six says) or do they throw on what ever is laying around at the time? Again, i'm not bashing. I am just curiously frustrated with the whole Process.
motogroove
New member
Did you ever do something dumb and then have your girlfriend ask you why you did it?
And you sort of sit there, trying to think of a good answer?
And there just isn't one?
I hate when that happens.
-dean
Nothing takes the past away like the future -K&D
coopernicus
Platinum Level Site Supporter
Nice! I've done this to my wife, my mom and dad, my brother, my coworkers, my boss...Need I go on?
On a serious note, I'm sure I will be beat up for this posting but this is a business and I'm sure what GG does is what everyone else does: They spec their parts, source it, random sample it, and ship (along with the rest of the assembled parts) to the customer. Where they likely differ is the random sampling is likely less than the larger companies as their pockets are not as deep. GG needs to make money or break even in the long run so, for better or worse, money IS a consideration. Take a look at the Japanese companies: The largest and most funded of the companies have the "highest" level of quality (be it real or perceived) and their reputation goes down in order of size (H-Y-K-S). Japan has a culture of honor and quality that extends into their business but their Quality Assurance testing of suppliers is still needed to catch "statistical anomalies". Suzuki likely having the least amount of spare cash has the lowest perceived "quality" dating back to the seventies (being a vintage dirt bike guy all of the old Suzukis I've had needed the most amount of attention even for relatively unused bikes...Point being is that I do have a sample size so I'm not "making things up"). KTM is made by a culture that puts an emphasis on engineering and performance (their kind of performance, not necessarily yours). They also own many of their major suppliers which cuts down on the amount of supplier Q.A. testing folks they need. WP Suspension, if I recall correctly, is a KTM company now and how many years did it take for them to get suspension that was acceptable to the masses? KTM is a fine company and they make a great product but they occasionally have problems like they statistically should.
What's the point of all of this rambling? GG like other small companies in other businesses from a statistical standpoint will suffer from occasional supplier problems. In the expedited time to fill GG US's "surprise" large order for 2010 and 2011 models, GG and their suppliers likely rushed through their processes of QA and assembly and we are seeing the results with what folks are seeing in their forks, power valves, and carb variances. Excuses? No. Reality? Yes. Unfortunately, since I've been buying "off brands" since 1979 that is what occasionally happens. My first bike was a 1979 Can Am Qualifier and it had Marzocchi forks. They were not that good and "Terry Fork Kit Company" sold entirely new damper rods for the forks and for other brands to fix it. Marzocchi for years has suffered from occasional quality control problems but if you get a good set, they work very well (sort of like a Ferrari).
AzRick asked a valid question but I doubt there will be an answer as that would be an admittance of some sort of liability (remember, this is a business) for a shortcoming. These situations should be where a good dealer steps in and becomes the forefront of the phrase "the buck stop here" and they work the problem. Furthermore, according to the GG manual I just looked at under the US importer's website, there looks to be a warranty and a process to address defective items for a period likely to be six months after the purchase. A defective damper assembly would likely be a candidate for warranty work according to my reasoning. Yes, I'm aware of all the postings and arguments about "time, money, convenience, should be, shouldn't be", etc and I'm not trying to dismiss your points. I'm just saying that things "are what they are" with smaller companies and there is likely a process to address the majority of shortcomings found on a sampling of the GGs. That's the price we sometimes pay for not following the crowd like those riding those popular red bikes. Oh, by the way, a riding partner "wanted to ride" one of those big red 450x's and got one only to have the automatic decompression mechanism fail causing a loss of power and eventual near stranding while riding deep in the mountains. It turns out there was a service bulletin/recall on the part. So with all of their resources, culture, and reputation they have the same type of problem. I never saw one word about it on the websites or in the magazines. That riding partner is now riding a new GG 300 and loving it except for getting the jetting dialed to perfection! Sorry for standing so long on the "soap box'!
Eric
GMP
Active member
Thats a very realistic assesment, and those of us who work or have worked in a mfg business from R&D through production certainly understand. I've worked in the medical device industry and my wife still does. Highest level of QC/QA, and small things still happen. Its all statistics.
I think the inside of the Zoke forks never see the light of the GG factory. I'd bet they are speced, sourced, delivered, and bolted up. Husky had the exact same issues with stacks comming loose a couple years back, Les found a bunch of them.
I think the inside of the Zoke forks never see the light of the GG factory. I'd bet they are speced, sourced, delivered, and bolted up. Husky had the exact same issues with stacks comming loose a couple years back, Les found a bunch of them.
When i pulled the base valve from the bottom of the fork legs on my new 2011 six days the shims where laying there loose. I was able fish them out with no problems. I have to wonder if it is the air impact that causes the nut to come off. I would think that if it had come off while riding the shims would have been mangled and loose nut could have caused damaged. I could not find any signs of damage.
Dave
Dave
noobi
New member
There have been a few reported cases of the air impact wrench spinning the nut off the stack and having the shims come loose.
I prefer to compress the fork some, and use a normal socket and bar to loosen the base valve a little, then release the compression off the fork and undo the base valve the rest of the way, but I only really do this because I dont have an impact wrench.
I prefer to compress the fork some, and use a normal socket and bar to loosen the base valve a little, then release the compression off the fork and undo the base valve the rest of the way, but I only really do this because I dont have an impact wrench.
That's my bike they are discussing on there. I wouldn't go so far as to say "it's fixed". Definently better, but still not right.
The fork soaks up small bumps and trail trash really well, but on large hits/square edges etc.. it'll break your wrists. Way, way too harsh.
I'm gimpy right now, so it's not high on my list to work on, but something will have to be done before the SETRA season gets in full swing.
The fork soaks up small bumps and trail trash really well, but on large hits/square edges etc.. it'll break your wrists. Way, way too harsh.
I'm gimpy right now, so it's not high on my list to work on, but something will have to be done before the SETRA season gets in full swing.
GMP
Active member
I want to see a pic of the cartridge/spring seat of that fork. Like I said something is not right, and its not the fault of the spacer, unless the spacer is a lot larger which it does not appear to be. I've had several sets of these apart many times, from '02 Husky to '07 GG, and they all have the same spring seat and spacers(length varies a little only). What he did helped some but the stock spacer without notches is not the cause. I could guess and say they changed the spring seat to something easier/cheaper to mfg that has fewer holes or holes/slots that happen to be blocked by the edge of the spacer, but I'll wait until I see a photo.
Is it really "hydrolocking", or could you be experiencing coil bind in conjunction with the normal function of the hydro stop (bottoming cone)?
Is it really "hydrolocking", or could you be experiencing coil bind in conjunction with the normal function of the hydro stop (bottoming cone)?
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