2018 300ec starter issues

[Iakovos1]

Just wanted to do a follow on this thread and update what's happened on the TT thread:

I have now replaced gears, pinion, bearings, and bendix. The action is definitely much smoother now. However I was still having issues starting the bike with the arrowhead starter. So I decided I would learn how to solder and change the brushes on my OEM starter. I got that done, put it in the bike and it started right up. Very slight hesitation but it doesn't take more than 1 push of the button. I still have the 2019 OEM Skyrich 240CCA battery.

MotoCenter agreed to return the arrowhead and give me credit toward a new Rieju starter which they just got in. Kudos to them!

24V - 2 different guys on TT have done this setup and tested a bit (one guy ran it in a Enduro and said he had A LOT of starts). Both are VERY happy and have said they are going to continue to use the 24v set up because their bikes have never started better. Their setups are slightly different from each other so if you are interested in doing this I would suggest reading through that thread.

 

[eralha]

I got rid of the starter problems by selling the bike.

I got tired of chasing a problem that i could not solve and spent a considerable amount of money in, it is a shame that i could no use a feature that a paid for. I still loved everything else about the bike.

 

[farmerj]

Thanks for letting us know eralha, and thanks for your contributions to the forum. Have success with your next moto adventure!

Jeff

 

[Gez]

Jeff, I don't know whether you have tried it yet but have you put another starter in to try?
I just got an ebay 410w KTM starter and re-clocked the housing. It's never started cold before but now it does. Well worth a try IMO.

 

[farmerj]

Jeff, I don't know whether you have tried it yet but have you put another starter in to try?
I just got an ebay 410w KTM starter and re-clocked the housing. It's never started cold before but now it does. Well worth a try IMO.

Gez, thanks for asking - and the answer is Yes! I took it to my dealer 2 weeks ago fully expecting it to come back with a 24V system, but when they put a new Rieju starter in it started right up!

I had tried 2 aftermarket and one other GG starter (which had to be "re-clocked", so not the original OEM) and none of them worked. Whether other tweaks I made to the system helped I cannot say - but it was definitely the starter that made the final difference in my case. I am cautiously optimistic after two rides; I'm trying to take it easy until I get the new Rieju bendix cover with bearings. I think that will free things up some more.

Very glad that you got yours working as well!

 

[Gez]

That's great news! It's crazy that it's not just one thing causing the no start.

 

[Doc Brown]

Gez, thanks for asking - and the answer is Yes! I took it to my dealer 2 weeks ago fully expecting it to come back with a 24V system, but when they put a new Rieju starter in it started right up!

I had tried 2 aftermarket and one other GG starter (which had to be "re-clocked", so not the original OEM) and none of them worked. Whether other tweaks I made to the system helped I cannot say - but it was definitely the starter that made the final difference in my case. I am cautiously optimistic after two rides; I'm trying to take it easy until I get the new Rieju bendix cover with bearings. I think that will free things up some more.

Very glad that you got yours working as well!

Good to hear you got the problem solved. My mates system works now too. After almost two years of trouble.

Jeff, do you think you could provide the OEM Rieju part numbers for the starter and bendix cover with bearing. Maybe they'll appear on the invoice you get. That would be really great!

ta, Steve

 

[farmerj]

Good to hear you got the problem solved. My mates system works now too. After almost two years of trouble.

Jeff, do you think you could provide the OEM Rieju part numbers for the starter and bendix cover with bearing. Maybe they'll appear on the invoice you get. That would be really great!

ta, Steve

Yes, when the bendix cover comes in I'll get those part numbers. Dealer said he hopes it is here soon - and thinks it will be about $70US. If so, that's less expensive for me than going to a machine shop with the old one!

Jeff

 

[fred99999au]

I've heard elsewhere that the part numbers for the bendix cover are identical, bearing or no bearing. Hope you get a new bearing type one.

I have just gone through the machine shop exercise (best mate runs an engimineering workshop) and we have fitted a BK1210 closed cup needle roller into a spare bendix cover I bought ages ago.

As they say, a coat of paint hides a multitude of sins and only a purist would pick that it's been modified.

Fitted it and only marginally better. Turns further but not over.

Today I was in the shed and had an idea. I thought 'Clearance Clarence' and just for schitzengiggles backed off the bendix cover screws. Cover didnt look like it moved, but more movement in the starter. It turned over.

I made a new gasket from .75mm paper and fitted it and first punch to warm the battery, second punch, it spins like a top.

And seems repeatable from cold. Last attempt I forgot I still had the plug in the pipe but it still wound over.

Based on previous exuberance, YMMV.

 

[Gez]

Ebay KTM starter update:
Rode at the local motocross track on Saturday. Bike started cold and everytime I needed it too. Although not in gear and clutch had to be released for it to light off. This could be jetting as I'm still running the 42 pj which is better suited to winter. May switch down to a 40 before my next ride.

 

[Doc Brown]

I've heard elsewhere that the part numbers for the bendix cover are identical, bearing or no bearing. Hope you get a new bearing type one.

I have just gone through the machine shop exercise (best mate runs an engimineering workshop) and we have fitted a BK1210 closed cup needle roller into a spare bendix cover I bought ages ago.

As they say, a coat of paint hides a multitude of sins and only a purist would pick that it's been modified.

Fitted it and only marginally better. Turns further but not over.

Today I was in the shed and had an idea. I thought 'Clearance Clarence' and just for schitzengiggles backed off the bendix cover screws. Cover didnt look like it moved, but more movement in the starter. It turned over.

I made a new gasket from .75mm paper and fitted it and first punch to warm the battery, second punch, it spins like a top.

And seems repeatable from cold. Last attempt I forgot I still had the plug in the pipe but it still wound over.

Based on previous exuberance, YMMV.

Change the OEM screws of the Bendix cover with allen head screws. On two bikes that had the same problem we solved them by checking how easy the upper gear can be turned while tightening the cover. On both bikes the cover or its screws were the problem.

 

[SpirosZ1000]

First I want to say that I kept my 2015 ec300 with no problems at all with the starter for 3 years and I found my self to present with a newer (EC 250 GP) bike which I bought used by a business partner which happens to be the local importer.
All was good in the beginning but when the problem started it started affecting my nerves (as I mentioned I had no issues at all with previous bike)
1) I tried wet mod. (Less noise no cure)
2) I installed earth cable to the starter as it was on my 2015. (no cure)
3) Bigger battery from the stock skyrich to a 270 cc again skyrich (little better)
4) I welded the bendix and the pinion gear to the shaft.( just for certainty)
5) In the summer I stripped the bike for a total refurbish and to go from 250 to 300 with head mods and everything. ( also I have moved my smartcarb from my old bike to this one). And since I don't charge my self for labor I decided to buy the bevel gears and the shaft new....... AND MY ODYSSEY begins.
When I installed them to the cover I immediately found out that there was something wrong as they wound bind badly and weren't moving at all. I took them out and when I watched them carefully I found that the bevel gear which the starter couples on was different. ( I have photos but they are to big. I will post them on facebook in Gas Gas and Rieju enduro group and share a link.)
I change this gear with the old one and it worked ( not good but worked and yes I know that those two gears are sold as one piece (pair))
Then I saw that the bendix cover small hole is worn off center. I had seen the photo about the new cover with the bearing and the sleeve but when I told it to the importer he told me that the part number was the same so he didn't think they would have changed anything.
I bought an AS3 bendix cover and before I even fit it I get a call from my friend saying that he received an order of parts and the new covers where with bearing and sleeve.( Yes I bought one and went on to fit it)
Noooooooo. When I fitted the new cover the new shaft would bind with the bendix resulting in 4 burnt brushes in my starter after some attempts each. ( I have a partner which can fit me new ones).
I take spare hit and re welded stator cover and fit all the old parts that were on the bike with a new stronger starter that I ordered from enduropuro and the bike fired with 50% success for two rides when suddenly I heard a clack and from then my starter spinned freely.
Meanwhile I had ordered all the new cables, new stator cover with new bendix, new bevel gears (second time) and new shaft plus the new bendix cover I already had to eliminate the possibility of things of the past (GG) not matching Rieju stuff.
They came last weak and a few days ago I bought new bearings and start mounting parts.... NAAAAWWWWWWWWW.
Again when I put new bearings, heat up and install them, upon installing gear that the starter sits on and install the circlip they bind as hell. Even if try to install an bearing puller and force it come all the way back to the circlip they work a little better but I CANNOT accept it.
We are taking measurements and photos to compile a new mail to Rieju which is all ready notified about this.

Bottom line is that I am frustrated with this thing not to mention the butter like kick starter which is already giving up on me. It ruins an otherwise perfect relation that I have with this bike. I would expect that for a 2018 model I would have other things to worry about and spent my money on and not to things like that.
I work everyday with BMW's motocycles which is 90% of my customers and I haven't got that feeling that this bike is giving me yet.

p.s. If I have any news and a breakthrough I will share it immediately as I will test it to mine and a friends 2018 300 GP that has 450 hrs on it with only the fist 100 with e start.

 

[farmerj]

Bottom line is that I am frustrated with this thing...It ruins an otherwise perfect relation that I have with this bike

Sorry to hear, I can understand your feeling! It's such a great bike, and then when you have to mess with trying to fix this component it can dampen your enthusiasm. It feels like it would have been better to have had "kick start only" vs. something that doesn't work - because the rest of the bike works so well!

I hope you're able to keep at it. Have success and do let us know what you find out!

Jeff

 

[SpirosZ1000]

And YES IT WORKS.........!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Finally the starter works as it should be from cold. I did a 90 kms ride today and and had zero issues.
Tomorrow I will update with everything I did to the bike to get it to work.

 

[okay_GG]

is it tomorrow already?

very curious to learn what you did

 

[Demi]

Couple of guys over at TT have done a 24v conversion, AS3 cover and it works great. My plan is to do the same once the parts come in. Some have had great luck with a more powerful battery and left the system aline otherwise.

 

[okay_GG]

I did the AS3 conversion,
but saw the old bendix cover was off centered, so I want to replace the bearings of the starter shaft as well.

 

[farmerj]

Jeff, do you think you could provide the OEM Rieju part numbers for the starter and bendix cover with bearing. Maybe they'll appear on the invoice you get. That would be really great!

Got the new Bendix cover, the Part Number is EE80130GG-CBR-2. My dealer installed the starter, so I don't have that number - but they are the standard numbers from Rieju.

I would highly recommend the new Rieju cover. It has a needle bearing for the Bendix shaft and a wear sleeve for the Pinion shaft. And $44.99 US is not a bad price IMO!

Jeff

PS - For those with issues, you might try changing the cover (with allen head screws per Doc's recommendation below) before moving forward with the 24V system (though I am a fan if the other things don't work). For some people, the new cover does the job (assuming other upgrades are in place, like heavier cables/240cca battery/weld pinion shaft bearing/etc.). And I do like the wet mod, which keeps everything lubed!

Change the OEM screws of the Bendix cover with allen head screws. On two bikes that had the same problem we solved them by checking how easy the upper gear can be turned while tightening the cover. On both bikes the cover or its screws were the problem.

 

[Demi]

Got the new Bendix cover, the Part Number is EE80130GG-CBR-2. My dealer installed the starter, so I don't have that number - but they are the standard numbers from Rieju.

I would highly recommend the new Rieju cover. It has a needle bearing for the Bendix shaft and a wear sleeve for the Pinion shaft. And $44.99 US is not a bad price IMO!

Jeff

PS - For those with issues, you might try changing the cover (with allen head screws per Doc's recommendation below) before moving forward with the 24V system (though I am a fan if the other things don't work). For some people, the new cover does the job (assuming other upgrades are in place, like heavier cables/240cca battery/weld pinion shaft bearing/etc.). And I do like the wet mod, which keeps everything lubed!

Change the OEM screws of the Bendix cover with allen head screws. On two bikes that had the same problem we solved them by checking how easy the upper gear can be turned while tightening the cover. On both bikes the cover or its screws were the problem.


View attachment 8997

Allen's with washers or just plain bolts? Thought I heard about this prior... the Rieju cover is a great value, if it was in stock where I bought my stuff, I would have went that route instead of the AS3.

 

[farmerj]

Plain bolts, no washers Demi. The issue with the original bolts are the flanges that stick out beyond the bolt head (not the type of fastener, just to be clear). They can contact raised edges on the cover and keep the cover from centering properly (even though the cover has two location pins).

Jeff