2018 300ec starter issues
- Thread starter Sky
- Start date
has anyone ever experienced a worn down bendix fitment on the stator side? (opposite of the bendix cover, that is)
I'm a bit worried about this, there is no bearing and I think I feel some lateral play in the bendix. If a bedinx cover solves the play on one side, you still have the play on the other...
Also, the former owner did not install the washer (no. 15 ME25616070 Gas gas cent. washer 08.1x17x0,2) and the gasket of the stator housing is not installed.
Will this affect the alignment of the (no. 4) starter sprocket not too much?
ths sprocket has quite some damage by the way so I'm replacing this, and installing the washer
I'm a bit worried about this, there is no bearing and I think I feel some lateral play in the bendix. If a bedinx cover solves the play on one side, you still have the play on the other...
Also, the former owner did not install the washer (no. 15 ME25616070 Gas gas cent. washer 08.1x17x0,2) and the gasket of the stator housing is not installed.
Will this affect the alignment of the (no. 4) starter sprocket not too much?
ths sprocket has quite some damage by the way so I'm replacing this, and installing the washer
farmerj
Platinum Level Site Supporter
Comments below...
has anyone ever experienced a worn down bendix fitment on the stator side? (opposite of the bendix cover, that is)
I'm a bit worried about this, there is no bearing and I think I feel some lateral play in the bendix. If a bedinx cover solves the play on one side, you still have the play on the other...
I have not heard of anyone finding the stator side bendix shaft housing to be worn. But I have had the same question as you! Play on the "other side" would be a problem, and not easy to fix. My take is this - if the bike starts fine, don't worry about it. If you have continuing problems, and it seems like the Bendix is binding and not engaging properly, take a closer look. If the housing is worn, the only good fix I can imagine is having a machine shop insert a sleeve in the housing.
Also, the former owner did not install the washer (no. 15 ME25616070 Gas gas cent. washer 08.1x17x0,2) and the gasket of the stator housing is not installed.
Will this affect the alignment of the (no. 4) starter sprocket not too much?
It appears to me that the purpose of the washer is to add a wear surface so that the bendix does not contact the stator side case. I would add one back in, as you are planning to do. You definitely want #28 stator gasket installed - it keeps water and fine grit from getting into your stator windings and starter/bendix gears.
Regarding alignment - because the Bendix "throws out" to a fixed point on the Stator side, I don't think a missing #28 Stator cover gasket (or washer, because it is so thin) will affect alignment much. But without the gasket, the Bendix shaft may be "squeezed" end-to-end, and not turn as freely. For instance - some people have added two gaskets to the Bendix cover in order to allow the shaft to spin more freely - so removing the Stator Cover gasket would affect things in the opposite (negative) way.
ths sprocket has quite some damage by the way so I'm replacing this, and installing the washer
Without a picture, it's hard to say - but these sprockets tend to get quite "beat up" from pictures I have seen, and still work OK - so some wear is not out of the ordinary. Here is a picture of mine. There is wear on the leading edge.
Have success!
has anyone ever experienced a worn down bendix fitment on the stator side? (opposite of the bendix cover, that is)
I'm a bit worried about this, there is no bearing and I think I feel some lateral play in the bendix. If a bedinx cover solves the play on one side, you still have the play on the other...
I have not heard of anyone finding the stator side bendix shaft housing to be worn. But I have had the same question as you! Play on the "other side" would be a problem, and not easy to fix. My take is this - if the bike starts fine, don't worry about it. If you have continuing problems, and it seems like the Bendix is binding and not engaging properly, take a closer look. If the housing is worn, the only good fix I can imagine is having a machine shop insert a sleeve in the housing.
Also, the former owner did not install the washer (no. 15 ME25616070 Gas gas cent. washer 08.1x17x0,2) and the gasket of the stator housing is not installed.
Will this affect the alignment of the (no. 4) starter sprocket not too much?
It appears to me that the purpose of the washer is to add a wear surface so that the bendix does not contact the stator side case. I would add one back in, as you are planning to do. You definitely want #28 stator gasket installed - it keeps water and fine grit from getting into your stator windings and starter/bendix gears.
Regarding alignment - because the Bendix "throws out" to a fixed point on the Stator side, I don't think a missing #28 Stator cover gasket (or washer, because it is so thin) will affect alignment much. But without the gasket, the Bendix shaft may be "squeezed" end-to-end, and not turn as freely. For instance - some people have added two gaskets to the Bendix cover in order to allow the shaft to spin more freely - so removing the Stator Cover gasket would affect things in the opposite (negative) way.
ths sprocket has quite some damage by the way so I'm replacing this, and installing the washer
Without a picture, it's hard to say - but these sprockets tend to get quite "beat up" from pictures I have seen, and still work OK - so some wear is not out of the ordinary. Here is a picture of mine. There is wear on the leading edge.
Have success!
really geeting fed up with this issue.
still does not want to turn over. It seems some binding somewhere, so I disassemebled the complete stator cover, leaving just the starter gears in (the one where the startermotor lgoes into and the one with the pinion for driving the bendix.
that moves freely (but not everywhere as smooth, yet smooth enough as I just installed new bearings in both).
So I installed just the startermotor and let it spin. This is ok at first, but the revs go down pretty fast.
to exclude the starter gears being an issue,
I then only spun the startermotor seperately. This shows the same symptoms. Almost like a bad DC connection. As I already upgraded all wires last week to 10mm2, the only thing(s) that can cause this are
- the solenoid (starter-relay) or
- the startermotor itself. the latter, I replaced last week as well. off course this is a non OEM one that I had to turn around to CW rotation.
measured the voltage of the battery (also a brand new one, but only 150 CCA) and this shows dropping voltage to 8V in 10 sec??
Any Einstein here to help me?
still does not want to turn over. It seems some binding somewhere, so I disassemebled the complete stator cover, leaving just the starter gears in (the one where the startermotor lgoes into and the one with the pinion for driving the bendix.
that moves freely (but not everywhere as smooth, yet smooth enough as I just installed new bearings in both).
So I installed just the startermotor and let it spin. This is ok at first, but the revs go down pretty fast.
to exclude the starter gears being an issue,
I then only spun the startermotor seperately. This shows the same symptoms. Almost like a bad DC connection. As I already upgraded all wires last week to 10mm2, the only thing(s) that can cause this are
- the solenoid (starter-relay) or
- the startermotor itself. the latter, I replaced last week as well. off course this is a non OEM one that I had to turn around to CW rotation.
measured the voltage of the battery (also a brand new one, but only 150 CCA) and this shows dropping voltage to 8V in 10 sec??
Any Einstein here to help me?
farmerj
Platinum Level Site Supporter
Sorry, not an Einstein! But here are a couple of thoughts.
Sounds like the problem is that your starter spins, but "the revs go down pretty fast" - even when the starter is removed from the stator cover. At least that should be an easily fixable problem!
but maybe expensive 
(1) It could be that your starter is failing. Maybe you got a bad one from the batch? Can you return/exchange it?
(2) Same for the battery, though it seems unlikely. But the drop in voltage seems excessive to me (although it sounds like you may have let it crank for a long time).
I would find another battery, and re-test. If the problem still exists, try another starter.
While cranking the starter for 10 sec. in a "free spin" mode may not be a problem, doing that very many times while installed in the bike can burn them up pretty quickly, as the windings get too hot. I'd suggest letting it crank 2-3 seconds and then allow the system to cool down a bit before trying again.
Other thoughts:
(3) It sounds like you did the wire upgrade. Ultimately, the 2018 bikes also need a 240cca battery per the GG tech bulletin. The 150cca batteries just don't pack enough punch. But I don't think that answers your current issue - when out of the bike, the starter should spin fine with that battery, I believe.
(4) If your battery went down to 8v, if it's a Lithium you may have a hard time charging it again. Some LI chargers won't "pick up" a battery when it gets below 9v, and if it does the cells can be out of balance and damage the battery. If you don't have an Optimate balancing Charger (or similar) I would take it to your dealer and ask them to charge it.
(5) If your battery is good, you might want to just go to a 24V system. Your current aftermarket starter might work fine with this (although if it has been compromised, it might not last long). This way, you spend $100 for a second (small case) Antigravity battery and that's it. Some good info. here.
This thread is long, but a good read on all things starter-related:
It's too bad that some of the early bikes had these problems. Rieju has upgraded a number of parts in the starter system, and I suspect that starting problems are a thing of the past with the new bikes.
Let us know how it goes!
Jeff
Sounds like the problem is that your starter spins, but "the revs go down pretty fast" - even when the starter is removed from the stator cover. At least that should be an easily fixable problem!
but maybe expensive (1) It could be that your starter is failing. Maybe you got a bad one from the batch? Can you return/exchange it?
(2) Same for the battery, though it seems unlikely. But the drop in voltage seems excessive to me (although it sounds like you may have let it crank for a long time).
I would find another battery, and re-test. If the problem still exists, try another starter.
While cranking the starter for 10 sec. in a "free spin" mode may not be a problem, doing that very many times while installed in the bike can burn them up pretty quickly, as the windings get too hot. I'd suggest letting it crank 2-3 seconds and then allow the system to cool down a bit before trying again.
Other thoughts:
(3) It sounds like you did the wire upgrade. Ultimately, the 2018 bikes also need a 240cca battery per the GG tech bulletin. The 150cca batteries just don't pack enough punch. But I don't think that answers your current issue - when out of the bike, the starter should spin fine with that battery, I believe.
(4) If your battery went down to 8v, if it's a Lithium you may have a hard time charging it again. Some LI chargers won't "pick up" a battery when it gets below 9v, and if it does the cells can be out of balance and damage the battery. If you don't have an Optimate balancing Charger (or similar) I would take it to your dealer and ask them to charge it.
(5) If your battery is good, you might want to just go to a 24V system. Your current aftermarket starter might work fine with this (although if it has been compromised, it might not last long). This way, you spend $100 for a second (small case) Antigravity battery and that's it. Some good info. here.
HTML:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1WluQKOZNY&feature=youtu.beThis thread is long, but a good read on all things starter-related:
HTML:
https://thumpertalk.com/forums/topic/1350119-2019-ec-300-starter-issues/page/14/It's too bad that some of the early bikes had these problems. Rieju has upgraded a number of parts in the starter system, and I suspect that starting problems are a thing of the past with the new bikes.
Let us know how it goes!
Jeff
Gasser Nate
New member
8 volts is pretty low during a load test. Do not rule out a faulty battery. I just received a faulty lithium from a reputable manufacturer. It would open circuit intermittently. New one has well over the rated 240cca. For what it is worth I ran the stock 150cca for two years before it got too weak to start cold. Try not to mask faulty components with a big ass (or two) batteries.
Does no one have a decent mechanic to diagnose these faults or are they stuck with blindly replacing parts in the hope it fixes the problem?
Does no one have a decent mechanic to diagnose these faults or are they stuck with blindly replacing parts in the hope it fixes the problem?
Gasser Nate
New member
No good mechanics do that. Generally only the ones at stealerships.
But yes is is strange, My 2018 has all original starter components save for me upgrading leads (before the factory thought it was a good idea) and the replacement battery.
Starts every time cold or hot.
Thing that shits me is it is a hour max to figure out what is wrong when it is in front of a decent mechanic.
But yes is is strange, My 2018 has all original starter components save for me upgrading leads (before the factory thought it was a good idea) and the replacement battery.
Starts every time cold or hot.
Thing that shits me is it is a hour max to figure out what is wrong when it is in front of a decent mechanic.
That is the problem, good mechanics are a rare breed these days. Guess there is a difference between tech and mechanic?! Anyway, good thing these bikes are relatively simple, but can be frustrating for many. You're right though, just tossing parts blindly isn't the best solution. Annoying when the consumer has to figure out r&d or finish what isn't.
mitinsky
New member
I doubt global changes ... The run is 20 hours and there have already been cases when the starter was idling on a hot motorcycle. It also did not start at +2 Celsius, but then I think the problem is in the battery.
Here's a new one for electrically minded Gasser riders out there.
So I have upgraded my starter system by doing the wet mod & installing larger cables including a dedicated earth cable however I am still having intermittent start issues where the starter works & then goes totally lifeless.
I have installed new starter button & soldered its wires directly to the wires at the connector behind the headlight & have also replaced the starter solenoid.
When this was first installed it started great however during a ride it goes dead again.
I can get the starter working again by simply disconnecting the low amp cable connector from the bottom of starter solenoid & then reconnecting it.
I've cleaned the connectors before & used dielectric grease on it but doesn't seem to help.
Its sort of like resetting a computer by turning it off & doing a restart.
Any ideas?
So I have upgraded my starter system by doing the wet mod & installing larger cables including a dedicated earth cable however I am still having intermittent start issues where the starter works & then goes totally lifeless.
I have installed new starter button & soldered its wires directly to the wires at the connector behind the headlight & have also replaced the starter solenoid.
When this was first installed it started great however during a ride it goes dead again.
I can get the starter working again by simply disconnecting the low amp cable connector from the bottom of starter solenoid & then reconnecting it.
I've cleaned the connectors before & used dielectric grease on it but doesn't seem to help.
Its sort of like resetting a computer by turning it off & doing a restart.
Any ideas?
gg3
Silver Level Site Supporter
UPDATE- Bushes didn't work. Considered selling it as immensely pissed off, but still love riding it. Did the conversion to 24v & it starts supper fast cold or in gear. Will report back after a couple of rides. Hopefully it will not destroy the starter motor or wreck the pinion/bendix gears.
fred99999au
Member
Ive been having issues with mine since new. Fitted a bearing to a new bendix cover and it made no difference. I fiddled around with it and made a thicker bendix cover gasket and added it to the original and it seems to work ok in the shed.
Havent had the time or inclination to go out and test it in the real world as yet.
Havent had the time or inclination to go out and test it in the real world as yet.
Gasser Nate
New member
Beta doesn?t run a vent at all, they only have about 25ml though. I run one cause it is easy enough to do. I have about 100ml in mine.
Good info (F5), thanks. I fitted the AS3 cover yesterday, nice piece. I will probably do the wet mod if/when that Russian made kit ever gets sent/received.
I may have missed some of the photos in the various threads, but are there any good close up photos of the ground wires near the starter and otherwise? Going to add the extra wires in the 8awg format, maybe include fuses as well. Once the Russian kit comes in, will more than likely do a 24v conversion too.
Probably making alot of busy work though, when I got the bike from the seller, it started just fine in 40?F temps.
Edit- I see that my CDI is one that was supposed to be sent for a re-flash, what is this and how much of a change does this make? What's the indicator if it has been done? The original owner got it winter of 19.
Edit #2- would a CDI from say a 2012/13/etc fit and work for the 18+? I was on the fence about maybe an HPI or Ignitech down the line..
I may have missed some of the photos in the various threads, but are there any good close up photos of the ground wires near the starter and otherwise? Going to add the extra wires in the 8awg format, maybe include fuses as well. Once the Russian kit comes in, will more than likely do a 24v conversion too.
Probably making alot of busy work though, when I got the bike from the seller, it started just fine in 40?F temps.
Edit- I see that my CDI is one that was supposed to be sent for a re-flash, what is this and how much of a change does this make? What's the indicator if it has been done? The original owner got it winter of 19.
Edit #2- would a CDI from say a 2012/13/etc fit and work for the 18+? I was on the fence about maybe an HPI or Ignitech down the line..
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