APT SmartCarb

We showed a 14% gain in HP and almost 9% (8.8%) gain in torque at the factory with a taper bore 40/38mm. The venturi can somewhat be described as a keyhole design, however there is much more at work than just a big hole and little hole, annular disposition, laminar flow, etc. The taper bore is simply a 40mm front body attached to a full 38mm rear body. This again amplifies the signal to the metering rod with a little trade off in mass flow. The 40/38 moved the torque over to the left of the best 36mm Keihin tests, built power sooner and carried it longer past peak than the best 38mm settings. A straight 40mm made more power yet on top, but with a fair trade off on the bottom.

Corey
 
We showed a 14% gain in HP and almost 9% (8.8%) gain in torque at the factory with a taper bore 40/38mm. The venturi can somewhat be described as a keyhole design, however there is much more at work than just a big hole and little hole, annular disposition, laminar flow, etc. The taper bore is simply a 40mm front body attached to a full 38mm rear body. This again amplifies the signal to the metering rod with a little trade off in mass flow. The 40/38 moved the torque over to the left of the best 36mm Keihin tests, built power sooner and carried it longer past peak than the best 38mm settings. A straight 40mm made more power yet on top, but with a fair trade off on the bottom.

Corey

Did I miss the dyno curves? Just asking, because some guys will say that without pictures it never happened :D
 
Did I miss the dyno curves? Just asking, because some guys will say that without pictures it never happened :D

I don't normally publish dyno information simply for the reason that some people don't know what they are looking at, what a dyno is intended for and it creates a lot of confusion. Anyway....:rolleyes:

Corey
 

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I have no intention of giving this away for the sake of selling carburetors. Trying to make people aware of what it is we are dealing with here and hopefully wake them up to the value. Thank you for your comments.

Corey
 
Do you have an estimated price in mind for the die cast carb?

Projected costs are in the $350-$400 range for the 36-40mm sizes. $425 to $450 for the side pull TPS 40-44mm sizes and $275-$325 for the 20-27mm sizes. Other sizes coming and yes taperbores (usually around $100 more than a standard bore because of additional machining). Word this week sounds like we may be in production sooner than we thought. Possibly early summer 2013 unless all of us can convince an OEM to sign some purchase orders:cool:.

Corey
 
I don't normally publish dyno information simply for the reason that some people don't know what they are looking at, what a dyno is intended for and it creates a lot of confusion. Anyway....:rolleyes:

Corey

A taper-bore it is then ... meaty torque on the bottom and into the mid, then healthy over-run up top.

Funny that the Euro dynos still record data in CVs ...

Looks like a super product - can't wait to bolt one on.
 
Projected costs are in the $350-$400 range for the 36-40mm sizes. $425 to $450 for the side pull TPS 40-44mm sizes and $275-$325 for the 20-27mm sizes. Other sizes coming and yes taperbores (usually around $100 more than a standard bore because of additional machining). Word this week sounds like we may be in production sooner than we thought. Possibly early summer 2013 unless all of us can convince an OEM to sign some purchase orders:cool:.

Corey
Thats a long wait , there are 2 of us here in the uk that are interested if thats any help:D , im sure once a few guys have them up and running and see how well they work they will sell like hot cakes :D
 
Thats a long wait , there are 2 of us here in the uk that are interested if thats any help:D , im sure once a few guys have them up and running and see how well they work they will sell like hot cakes :D

Agreed. The billet ones are available now....just think you could be one of the first one's to have it over there. :D

Corey
 
Ha ha dont temp me , im a spendaholic :D , we also get stung with the dreaded customs charge:rolleyes:

Ah, for sure. Well volume directs pricing, and with input from you we better understand our audience and what we hope to achieve in this market. Also nice to see a forum remain cognizant about facts and reality, pretty rare indeed.

Corey
 
Maybe we could pass one around here and test it on a variety of our bikes in different conditions. This was done to a limited extent with an RBD modded Keihin some years back.

Good luck with that. It was several months before I even rode with mine due to all the initial issues I had. Still had to pay full pop.:confused:
 
I'm a third that is intrested in the UK. Again the die cast production model as the cost including shipping and customs to the UK would add another 20% + on to the price.

How did you get on with your bike pal , did you get it sorted ?
 
I don't think having a few of the more technically savy members here test and report on the carb is unreasonable. I'm not talking about bouncing this around the globe to everyone. A very good baseline of info could be generated as far as starting settings, installation issues (being its larger) etc. as well as the previously mentioned fuel overflow in various positions. Basically real world testing, not a dyno, and that has already been done. Many customers might expect near perfection for the price and it might pay to get any minor issues ironed out first. I would not even expect an OEM to sign onto this without having some of the factory riders wring it out. Perhaps they have we just don't know.

Ok guys. While your enthusiasm and zeal to be test pilots is most appreciable we certainly haven?t had any shortage of willing riders. Yes, the die cast carbs are where we all want to be.

I think what is not widely understood to those responding in this forum, and it's not my style to bring more to the conversation than what has been asked, however the development of any product requires necessary steps to insure validity, integrity and durability of the product. The release of the machined bodies is our way (or more accurately, my way of convincing partners and investors of the broad interest in the product) and equally important to gain actual user results/interest to move forward into the next manufacturing phase. Hard tooling for die casting costs hundreds of thousands of dollars just for one body size. You don?t even want to know what we have spent to develop this product to this point.

Anyway not your problem, however a first run of anything is not for everybody; consequently guys like Gerard who have an appreciation for new gadgets and like to be the first to toy with things are the ones who are best suited for this level of product. It is expensive but it?s worth it and Gerard has and will be rewarded for working through the small issues that he had. The only reason it took so long to get him up and running was because of us. We were at Pikes Peak setting records and winning classes.

And yes this is not our first trip around the block; we have GasGas factory professional riders putting the carbs through hellish tests, enduro, MX etc. Factory racers in the US, Scott Bright, Clay Stuckey, KTM racers, Mike Fortman, Kawasaki Tim Seebold, Honda, Matt Meinart etc. Marco Belli (Zaeta, TM) in Italy, Marco even had Valentino Rossi ride his SmartCarb equipped Zaeta. Wayne Wright (Wobbly Pipes) testing in New Zealand, and the list goes on.

Here?s a look into my world, this morning we brought in a Alex Malott?s Razors Edge factory 2011 Yamaha YZ 250 put it on the dyno, did back to back carb comparisons. I?ll post the chart of the SmartCarb?s immediate 8% gain over a two year old race tuneup, took three minutes to put the carb on. He?ll be racing it this weekend and the next in a national MX pro series in the US.

The fit, flooding, cable issues have all been addressed and the die cast versions will have all the improvements. Men we are ready to SELL carburetors.

Respectfully,

Corey
 

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Fourth in the UK interested in the die cast model.

Corey, do you have any test results for the smaller 2 strokes ? I have an EC 200, which is very sensitive to air temp changes. I'm sure the 125, 144 and 165 owners would also be very interested in increased fuel economy and less time adjusting carburation.

Yes, we do have some data on smaller bikes clear down to Cobra's 65 cc mini motocrosser. I can tell you we see the same results as the larger displacements and it certainly mellows out the peaky fussiness of the smaller engines.

Regards,

Corey
 
Only joking corey :D , seems you posted while i was writing my post lol

No I clearly get where you guys are coming from, just want to make sure you aware of where we are at.:)

Thanks again for your interest and we will get these carbs into your hands one day.

Corey
 
No I clearly get where you guys are coming from, just want to make sure you aware of where we are at.:)

Thanks again for your interest and we will get these carbs into your hands one day.

Corey

Thanks for keeping us informed corey, lets hope they come sooner rather than later :D
 
So if I buy a billet one they do not have those issues stated earlier addressed yet?

The remaining billets have all the corrections except the check valves in the vent lines. The check valves are for what is really a non issue, but we have decided to add a little extra area of correction to this because somebody somewhere somehow can make it a problem. The billets will also become an exclusivity because we probably won't be making them much longer. All we will need to know is if you have a stock cable or an aftermarket threaded end:D

Corey
 
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