Differences between DE and EC models

[ScottyR]

Can someone please explain all the differences between the DE and the Euro EC models? We have always had Euro spec ECs in Canada but it looks as though we may have no choice but to take DEs to get around the whole non-conforming VIN issue, which is starting to become a hassle in some provinces.

What are the differences between the 2 models and why is it that guys from the US want DEs so bad over the Euro models? What type of odo/speedo does the DE come with? Are the lights easy to hook up?

I am in the minority in Canada when I stated that I would prefer a DE over the EC on a dirt bike forum. I have no use for the switchgear and the mess of wires that comes with the extra lights, horn etc...

Hopefully, the US and CDN importers can cut a deal with GG to bring down the price of the bikes a bit by ordering DEs together.

Thanks
Scott

 

[GMP]

Scott,

The DE has the lighter flywheel 35W 2K-2 ignition. All the Euro spec street hardware and associated wiring is removed and a simple kill switch takes its place. The lights are activated by a toggle switch in the headlight shell (if supplied). The DE is the bike to get, although a lot of guys may want a flywheel weight for the snot, and the 14oz is plenty. A lot of people here think the EC flywheel is too heavy, thats the main reason for the DE. I thought it was good in the rocks but too heavy in the sand, so I went with the 2K-2 and a weight, which is great. I spent hours stripping junk and wire off my EC just to fit what I did need, and agree it has no place on a race bike. If someone wants more flywheel weight/stator output than the 14 oz, you can always get them a 2K-3 EC ignition, as the motor accepts both and it drops right in, using the same CDI.

 

[MattR]

EDIT: Looks like a couple of us answered at the same time. Sorry if my post sounds a bit redundant.


I thought this was discussed in the 2T forum, but I didn't see anything in my searches. So I will give my quick summary to get the ball rolling. Others can chime in too if I forget something.

EC Model:
Larger ignition (more flywheel effect)
Higher power output/wattage for lights, blinkers, etc.
Multi-function handlebar switch
Full wiring loom
Headlight with high and low beams
Horn
Blinkers
Turn signals
Tail light
Brake light
Messico exhaust pipe and silencer

DE Model (previously known as XC model):
Smaller ignition (less flywheel effect)
Lower power output/wattage for lights (ok for moderate use).
No handlebar switch... single-throw toggle switch for light
Abbreviated wiring loom (no turn signals, horn, or high beam).
Headlight with low beam only (for high beam swap the terminal)
Tail light
Brake light
FMF exhaust pipe with Turbine Core 2 silencer/spark arrestor

 

[skid jackson]

06 300 De

near as I can tell .... The DE has less flywheel weight so it revs more freely. I guess the stateside guys like revvy motors. Still tractors pretty good to me. EC's must pull stumps!! My bike had no switch gear or blinkers. However the wiring harness is the same so if you wanted them you could just plug them in. I believe the generator power output on the EC is much more than on the DE. When i hit the brakes on my de the headlight dims!! The odometer is a standard trail tech not the fancy factory one you see in the owners manual. Anyone can feel free to fill in where i missed.

 

[killergasser]

MattR,

Are you talking '06 only, because my '04 EC300 came with the FMF set-up on it not a Messico. Just curious.

 

[MattR]

MattR,

Are you talking '06 only, because my '04 EC300 came with the FMF set-up on it not a Messico. Just curious.

My 2001 came this way and I heard other folks with more current models mentioning the FMF pipe. I assumed it was for most DE model years in the States. I thought the stock GG pipe was made by Messico and was standard equipment on EC's. Perhaps your dealer swapped it out.

 

[barkeater]

From my experience, in 2002 through 2006, the bikes came with whatever pipe the factory put on them. There really was no "system" to it as far as I could tell, just whatever was on the shelf in Spain that week. Some came with GG pipes, some came with FMF pipes. (The MC's came consistantly with the Messico however.)

The bikes seemed to be a little bit different with each production run.

Matts got it about right in his breakdown of the EC and DE. I think there is a misconception out there that these are completely different bikes... they're exactly the same frame, motor and suspension. The only difference between the EC and the DE is that the DE lacks the 5 miles of wiring harnesses that are on the EC model and it has the low watt MC stator.

Which brings up the MC... it has a 19" rear, stiffer suspension, a higher compression head and sharper ignition curve, with the same wattage output as the DE. (At one point the MC had a different 4 speed transmission, but for 2005-06 came with the same 6 speed in the EC/DE.)

IMHO, If you ride open and fast, the thing to do is get an MC and customize it up. If you ride tight and mucky, get an EC and strip off the wiring you don't want. That simple.

The DE just seems to be a redundancy to me.

 

[Eric K]

EDIT: Looks like a couple of us answered at the same time. Sorry if my post sounds a bit redundant.


I thought this was discussed in the 2T forum, but I didn't see anything in my searches. So I will give my quick summary to get the ball rolling. Others can chime in too if I forget something.

EC Model:
Larger ignition (more flywheel effect)
Higher power output/wattage for lights, blinkers, etc.
Multi-function handlebar switch
Full wiring loom
Headlight with high and low beams
Horn
Blinkers
Turn signals
Tail light
Brake light
Messico exhaust pipe and silencer

DE Model (previously known as XC model):
Smaller ignition (less flywheel effect)
Lower power output/wattage for lights (ok for moderate use).
No handlebar switch... single-throw toggle switch for light
Abbreviated wiring loom (no turn signals, horn, or high beam).
Headlight with low beam only (for high beam swap the terminal)
Tail light
Brake light
FMF exhaust pipe with Turbine Core 2 silencer/spark arrestor

Good list. A few differences based on what I have seen...

EC model ('06)
Halogen headlight w/ Hi/Lo beam
Multifunction display - speedo, odo, trip, tach, hourmeter
GG pipe and silencer w/o Spark arrestor
Mirrors
Euro homologation emissions parts


DE Model
There is variation, even within a given year.
Some do not have a headlight.
Brake light - front brake actuated only.

 

[GMP]

The QC on what the bike left the factory with has been spotty in the past. Some have had different rate shock springs. I suspect this is now tightened up.

The DE is patterened after the GGNA era XC. The XC however, did have a higher compression head AND a more aggressive CDI. It was also valved a bit stiffer. I had a '00 XC and now run the CDI from it in my '03 EC (converted to DE trim). Alphabet soup huh? Not as bad as talking about new KTMs though.

The DE makes perfect sense, why supply(and charge) us for stuff we don't want/need? First, the emmisions stuff is the first to go, total waste of money. Don't supply any lights and get rid of the front brake light switch. Make an affordable Hebo kit available with the current excellent light shell, and a small Acerbis style LED tailight/lic plate holder. Basically like a new KTM XC or XCW. Keep the spark arrestor silencer, CDI map switch, and EC suspension setup. The hare scrambles guys will be happy, and the enduro guys set with a $100 kit. Add up all this component cost and additional assembly labor savings, and pass it on to us. Do a special run for USA/Canada and maybe we can get these things for a reasonable price.

They could make the full harness, 2K-3, and DOT compliant lighting available in a hard parts catalog if desired, but for a 2-stroke it would probably be a waste of time considering how things are going.

Building up an MC for off road is not really the same as say building a YZ because the MC starts out at a much higher price. If the DE is not hot enough for you, you can remove the primary weight and get the head and CDI from the MC.

Considering the current trends and the competition's offerings, I find it strange that this wasn't discussed and addressed a long time ago.

 

[jeffd]

The XC/DEs tire selection is typically the non-dot approved s-12 michelin. Typically a size too small - a 120 width michelin is actually a 100 width tire - sized for a 125cc bike.

The EC comes with a DOT approved Michelin Enduro comp III tires - a 140 width tire that is relatively heavy (relative to a s-12 dirt oriented tire.).

Note that for a california based magazine test - the dot tires (or the too narrow dirt oriented tires) or the heavy EC ignition would not show the bikes best traits in open california terrain.

FYI - for the fmf pipes - I believe the bikes were shipped into the u.s. without pipe and the fmf pipe and silencer were installed in the u.s. And for what it's worth - I would prefer to have the gasgas design pipe with a turbine spark arrestor incorporated into the gasgas silencer.

jeff

 

[GMP]

No matter how the bikes are set up, you can't please everybody. So, if your a small company importing one configuration, you target the main market and make it flexible. I think the DE does that well. Once you own these bikes and tinker with them for awhile, you find that they are among the most flexible platforms out there.

Jeff,

Jim told me the pipe thing started as some kind of deal GGNA had with FMF. When GGNA was the importer you could not buy a replacement pipe directly from FMF.

Your right, both tire choices are poor. The DOT tires for the US fall into the same catagory as the emmisions equipment and the lights, why?

 

[widebear]

I'm pretty sure my 03 U.S. spec mc -250 Is a compromise bike. Frame and wheels are mc, engine is mc, tranny is ec, black box is same part # and colour code as my ec-250,( swapped them back and forth, no noticable differance) pipe and silencer is FMF, Ohlins forks came with really wimpy springs, shock spring rate was correct.Speaking of the de-ec comparason I prefer the ec ,don't care for the fmf pipe, sold my wiring harness and lights to a dual sport guy and with the extra money I bought a de ignition and it's easy to swap the two ignitions back and forth, Makes me happy

 

[jeffd]

One of the previous importers ordered the bikes stripped down and with a few items to boost performance. The original question is 'what is the difference' - but my question to those who are knowledgable here - how would you configure the DE? Let's think up a better name too - how about "enduro racer" - ER 300. (Or does that sound too much like it needs medical help!). Maybe ES - "Enduro Special".

jeff

 

[MattR]

Let's think up a better name too - how about "enduro racer" - ER 300. (Or does that sound too much like it needs medical help!). Maybe ES - "Enduro Special".

Why not go back to using XC for the name? Since GNCC, hare scrambles, closed-course enduros, etc. are gaining popularity then an "XC" version of EC bike fits the US market. Not to look like we're trying to copy what KTM is doing but it would make our bikes go head-to-head with the pumpkins.

At least we won't need to have XC, XC-W, XC-F, XC-F-W, EXC, SX, SX-F, or any other combination of letters.

 

[jeffd]

I had heard that XC couldn't be used because it was "owned" by the previous importer, GGNA. Not sure if it still holds though...

My thoughts is that you want something that differentiates you from the competitor. ya know - yamaha's are yz, suzukis are RMs, etc...

How about "RE" - Racing Enduro - better than "ER" which indicates need of medical attention.

jeff

 

[MattR]

Or you could go with "EX" - Enduro Cross or Enduro Xtreme (for the FMX fans).

 

[barkeater]

How about if we bring back the SE for special edition. Take an MC with the hi-comp head, put on an 18" rear and a larger stator and softer suspension settings.

Then we could add on a few off-road specific upgrades like handguards and a skidplate and add an X to the name.

We would then have the Gas Gas SE and the SE-X

A dealer should be able to sell SE-X.

 

[jeffd]

I think Don Knight claimed ownership of the trademarks "XC" and "SE" when related to the gasgas. But maybe the passing of time makes it a non-issue.

I like Matt's idea of "EX" - Enduro Xtreme
And I think RE works too - Racer's Edition.

jeff

 

[skid jackson]

EX is the designation that kawi used for years on it's entry level sportbike the EX 500.

How did husky get to use the CR designation that honda used???

 

[ScottyR]

I think it is the other way around. Husky has been selling CRs longer than Honda has been.