ec200 alternatives? KTM 200 xcw & Sherco 250i?

[RonC]

I'm a completely new rider, no experience on anything 2 wheeled with a motor. However, I took downhill mountain bike really seriously, including running 4i days a week and strength training to help my racing. I intend on transferring that dedication to the enduro bike because I've ALWAYS wanted a motor, but had never made the move until now. I have raced in the 2006 Baja 500 stateside races, but only on 4 wheels.

Jeff Tasky, of Tasky's Metric Cycles in Washington state has recommended an EC200 and I trust his opinion. At first, i thought I wanted a 4 stroke for its linear and predictable power curve, but I learned of GasGas's legendary smoothness. I'm VERY light at 130lbs and anything bigger than a 200 would probably just tire me out over the course of a race.

Here's the problem: I have been looking for quite a while and I cannot find an EC200 or XC200 used anywhere! Well, that's not true, because Tasky's has a '12. But, everybody seems to agree that the 2012's are bigger than the '11 and earlier. So here are the requirements:

1. Small size (I'm 5'4)
2. Beginner friendly throttle
3. Ability to allow me to compete in open engine classes(classified by age) in hare scarmbles.

During my search for a 2007-2011 GasGas 200cc 2t, I could not help but look at the alternatives. This is what I found:

1) 2009 Sherco 250i demo bike. 2 rides. $5500, no extra setup fees. The Sherco has such a LOW standover, like 35"!!! Won't the 4 stroke just make it easier for me to learn as a beginner? Predictable, consistent power up through the rpm's? Unlike other 4 strokes, this one is light at 225lbs. But will the 250f be all the motor I'll need?(just cuz the GasGas 200cc 2t is much more powerful).

2) KTM 200 XC-W '06-'07. Plenty of these around at $3200-$4000. A favorite woods bike of many with a low standover. Problems:
a) the model of '06-'07(as well as others) are known to hit pretty damn hard and throw you on your ass. However, I know the tricks of taming it via 12oz flywheel weight, adjusting the power valve, and if needed: FMF gnarly pipe and aftermarket throttle cam.
b) Notorious headshake thrives in these years! A damper will fix it.
c) Damn, that is a hell of a lot of stuff to buy just to make a used bike usable by me!! Not to mention the usual springrate/valving stuff.
d) After all these mods and money, will it be anywhere as user-friendly as a GasGas power curve???

I'm going to keep waiting for used 07-11 GasGas 200, but for how long? Okay, go ahead and do your best to convince me either way! Thank you very much from hopefully a future GasGas owner! -Ron



Oh yeah, is a EC/XC250 really going to tire me out that much more than a 200 during a long race? I asked, and the answer was to hold out for a 200 for my size. Just curious if anybody has differing opinions. I would wait/pay more for a proper 200.

 

[roverhybrids]

I've got 2011 ec200 six days I'll trade for a 2012 ec200 lol

 

[RonC]

If you wanted to "upgrade" to a 2012, I could work something out, heh heh. I'm THAT desperate for a GasGas 200cc EC or XC. Six Days version is even better. The bike is a 2012 EC200R with the marzocchi and Ohlins 888 combo and can be viewed in the classified's New section or Tasky Metric Cycle's website.

 

[roverhybrids]

Were you able to check out Tasky's 2011 gasgas 125?

 

[AZRickD]

You've done your research pretty well and I can agree with your general conclusions.

What you lack is what you need most -- time on the different bikes. We have't seen a 200 Gasser around here since 2007 and that was a 2000 model. I would like to know how a GG 200 compares to a KTM.

 

[john01]

Ron there is a brand new 2006 GG200 listed for sale on this site in the new bike section. It's not the 07-11 that you are looking for but I understand it's the same size and also an excellent bike.

 

[Jakobi]

Its your first bike man! Any bike is going to put a wickid grin from ear to ear. I agree what you need is seat time, so gather your coins and buy the bike that gives you the biggest stiffy!

Don't underestimate the fun of a 250F. At your weight they'll haul around. The sherco would be a great bike. I bet you could get a pretty decent, recent WR250F/YZF for a good price too. I still think I could ride my 250F harder, faster, longer, than I can any other engine, so you won't exactly out grow it. You'll just change later because you discover that you want a change just for fun, and a 2T is exactly where you'll find it!

Only negative to the 4T is the maintenance schedule, which isn't really much more than a 2T, but if its not followed it can cost big $$$ to fix. Shop wisely!

 

[GasGas]

At a buck thirty, I wouldn't rule out a 125/150 GasGas, Husky or Yamaha. Plus it would teach how to ride much more so than the 200. Not to mention much lighter to pick up when your tired.

 

[pscook]

There is a great looking Husky 125 on Cafe husky right now for cheap, I just sent the seller a note. Hope he wants to ship to Washington.

I have read that the GG 200 uses the same frame as the 250 and 300, so if the size is a concern then you might want to look at a 125 sized frame like the KTM 200 has (as I understand it). If I had cash to burn I would be up at Tasky's, but right now that would be a very, very bad decision for me to go up there.

 

[AZRickD]

Huskies are very tall. Folks around here are having major problems with carburation to the point of swapping out carbs.

The post-2007 KTMs (IIRC) no longer sport the smallish frame. The older KTM 200s have peaky motors and don't turn well.

 

[desertgasser300]

Maybe this one is still available?

http://www.gasgasrider.org/forum/showthread.php?t=14285

 

[firffighter]

You are going to get a lot of advice here, but pay attention to those who live in your neck of the woods as terrain plays a huge part of the decision. If you are in Western WA, then I would imagine that places like Walker Valley and maybe Belfair would be your riding areas.

That being said, I honestly would consider a KDX200 or KDX220 as your first bike. If you are dead set on a Gasser, then the EC200 would be a good choice.

I have owned 3 KDX's, 3 KTM200's including one currently and I also have a EC200 in the garage right now. Having owned a ton of bikes including Gasgas 250/300's and KTM250/300's, I believe the 200 platform is perfectly suited to our NW woods riding.

Here is my evaluation, considering I am 43, mid-pack B rider, Western OR,WA terrain, many years of riding experience.

KDX200/220: The epitome of a Northwest woods bike. PERFECT woods motor that puts power to the ground. Durable, reliable, easy to work on, comfortable and with a few mods can be raced by a C or B rider. They are also much easier for shorter riders with a low seat height and suspension set up for 150 lb. rider. Many will poopoo the bike as outdated and not worthy, but I have passed and been passed by many a KDX in local enduros.

KTM200: Most fun bike I have ever owned. Has tons of low end power or can scream. You can ride it a gear high all day and lug up, around or over anything. Or, you can twist the throttle and hold on! With a JD jet kit an powervalv adjustment (easy and free), you can tune them to be very tame. Don't listen to anyone who says they are slow turning. My '98 will dance around my Gasgas all day long. It is like a mt. bike with a motor.

Gasgas EC200: The best description I can give is a KDX that is updated. Nice smooth motor when jetted right and will lug well but still have zip. Not as powerful as a KTM200, but on par with a modded KDX. Great suspension and good handling. Not as nimble as a KTM200 because it is using a 250 frame, whereas the KTM is using a 125 frame. Reliable and fun bike that is at home in the woods.

Here in the Northwest, a EC200 is nearly impossible to find unless you buy new. There frequently will be KTM200's and KDX's are plentiful. You can find KDX's with tons of wonderful modifications for cheap.

Hope this helps.

 

[siaknijustin]

+1 on the KDX. I've owned a lot of different bikes and the only one I've ever had seller's remorse over was my '00 KDX 220. It has become the standard by which all of my present and future bikes are measured. Much of the reason I went with a GasGas is because its low speed handling is similar to that of the KDX. They both carve like a knife!

 

[hamilton]

+ 2 on everything in firfighter post, except my 12 200gg is as powerful as the ktm but smoother.

 

[RonC]

Hey everybody , thank you very much for your advice.

roverhybrids - As far as the 125, I think it is still available. By the way, what frame does the GasGas 125 use? A 200/250/300 size frame? I never heard of a GasGas 125 frame. Australian GG site says 2010 125 and 200 share the same frame and 250/300 get their own variation. However, I've only heard of a single frame for 200-300. Here's the article: http://www.gasgas.com.au/21.htm

john01 - As far as the new 2006, do you mean the one in Alabama? I figured that was sold from the last post date. I'll check that out.

desertgasser300 - That was one of the first 200s I tracked down and I did not get any replies, so I assume it has been sold.

firffighter - Thank you for taking the time to elaborate on your experiences. The KDX does, indeed, seem like a very good bike for our region and has a very strong following. I have been keeping tabs on this bike in my searches.



Remaining questions:

1) From what I have read, the steering geometry change happened in '05 GasGas bikes. I have heard both directions. Can anybody confirm if they got steeper or slacker(slower turning)?

2) I recently found out that 200s can be available, but I have to act REALLY FAST. I found a '04-'05 ec200 near my hometown in CA with the shiver/ohlins combo for $1500. Unfortunately, it was sold 24 hrs after calling the owner. In the worst case scenario, I have to replace bearings, rebuild the topend at least. What else am I missing in cost when it comes to "the worst case scenario"? Where do you guys draw the line at how old of a bike you'd buy in this situation?

Here's a perfect example: How do you guys rate this bike? A little older, but roughly the same price as the bike that just got sold:

http://www.gasgasrider.org/forum/showthread.php?t=14571

3) As far as clean KDX options, this guy seems to have gone all-out! Any reason not to jump on this deal?
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/mcy/3704607356.html

 

[Dave]

In '05 the steering was made sharper than the '03-'04s.

With a Gas Gas, since the 200 shares the 250/300 frame, I wouldn't get too hung up on displacement. The way I see it, you get the weight and size of a "big" bike and downsized power. Since there are way more 250s available you're likely to get a better deal on one of those. I wouldn't rule out a 300 if the price is right as you could easily trade the 300 cylinder for a 250.

Suspension bearings and top ends are the tip of the iceberg when it comes to used machines. If air filter maintenance was lacking figure a crank. You can't see the clutch... With 'Zoke forks over tightening the bottom triple clamp (easy to do) will trash the insides. I'm not saying 'no' to used hardware, but you better know, first hand, what you're looking at.

 

[Hawkeye]

I was disappointed in the 2002 200XC's motor that I sold last spring. I bought it from a friend and it was lacking in midrange, and the low end wasn't really much to write home about either. Fun to trailride, but when I tried to race it, I had to rev it hard to make trail speed. Tiring.

I'd rather have raced a modded KDX that day just for the the better torque and midrange power. I'm sure Gas Gas has made progress since that 10 year old model, but I would urge you to look at a 250 as well. Just a lot more out there.
With a 250, you could probably find one locally that you could take a spin on. Do the same with a KDX and you'll know a lot more about what works for you.

 

[roverhybrids]

RonC
My point on the 2011 GG 125 was if you were able to sit on it and see how it feels?
Same with the 2012.
Before my 2011 gasgas 200 and 300 I had a 2004 KTM 300 and a 2007 KTM 200xcw. I had the KTM 200 dialed in. I had an auto clutch in the 300 and whenever I loaned out one of the bikes the 300 was the easier bike to ride because of the auto clutch and I'd tell them to ride it a gear high
I sold the KTMs to get the GGs because I liked the smaller size of the GG(I'm 5' 10")
I'm real happy with the ergos and the handling, but haven't had the time to get either bike dialed in as well as I'd like engine wise(300 is real close) or suspension wise( again 300 real close, 200 is set up for someone your size....)

I don't think you could go wrong with a 125-200cc GG. That said if the 125 was lacking in low end or wasn't linear enough a 150cc kit(or whatever cc size they have for the GG 125s). I also think making mods is fun so I wouldn't consider wanting a larger cylinder on a 125 a wrong decision if I liked other aspects of the bike

 

[RonC]

I was disappointed in the 2002 200XC's motor that I sold last spring. I bought it from a friend and it was lacking in midrange, and the low end wasn't really much to write home about either. Fun to trailride, but when I tried to race it, I had to rev it hard to make trail speed. Tiring.

I'd rather have raced a modded KDX that day just for the the better torque and midrange power. I'm sure Gas Gas has made progress since that 10 year old model, but I would urge you to look at a 250 as well. Just a lot more out there.
With a 250, you could probably find one locally that you could take a spin on. Do the same with a KDX and you'll know a lot more about what works for you.

Thanks for your input. I'm just curious how much you weigh. Thanks! -Ron

 

[RonC]

RonC
My point on the 2011 GG 125 was if you were able to sit on it and see how it feels?
Same with the 2012.
Before my 2011 gasgas 200 and 300 I had a 2004 KTM 300 and a 2007 KTM 200xcw. I had the KTM 200 dialed in. I had an auto clutch in the 300 and whenever I loaned out one of the bikes the 300 was the easier bike to ride because of the auto clutch and I'd tell them to ride it a gear high
I sold the KTMs to get the GGs because I liked the smaller size of the GG(I'm 5' 10")
I'm real happy with the ergos and the handling, but haven't had the time to get either bike dialed in as well as I'd like engine wise(300 is real close) or suspension wise( again 300 real close, 200 is set up for someone your size....)

Thanks again, for your input. Yes, I actually hope to get to Tasky's today to sit on both the 2011 and 2012(and Sherco). That is a great idea and I should have done this a while ago. They were gone since the 21st till sunday for a race, but now I should get my butt down there on and on those bikes. By the way, what frame does GasGas use for the 125? It sounds like a modified version of the 200-300 frame, but not necessarily a smaller frame like KTM.

The 07 KTM 200xcw is exactly the model and year that I was interested if heading in the KTM direction! So far I have heard that people say that the KTM 200 of 07 and earlier is smaller than the GasGas pre 2012. Are you saying that you felt that your 2011 GasGas was smaller than the 07 KTM 200 xcw? In terms of standover or "reach" while riding? Thanks, again.