Factory Needle/Jet Setting EC250

[stainlesscycle]

Sometimes its hard to find a good place to grab my mouthpiece for a drink much less reach down for the petcock.

i switched to the geigerrig - big difference, only need to use it for a second to get enough water- and i grab my mouthpiece at checkpoints, i figure it's the only good time to reach for it.

doing more harescrambles as I seem to be doing very well in them.

hah, i started out strong and have been doing shitty lately. win the first couple then lately crash out early and end up fast trail riding to recover, and too far out of it..., or technical difficulties (rear shock issues..and i had some arm problems - but both issues seem to be fixed...still having rear shock issues in the rocks, but in the smooth it's great right now.)

 

[theexception_03]

In my 300 I personally found the same with the stock needles. Really rich off the bottom and would rip up top. Would load up and smoke like a chimney if I wasn't hard on the throttle all the time. Ie 2 minutes of ST and it was chuggin. I needed the idle screw right in to make it idle and even then it only just did at full temp.

I'd suggest grabbing a handful of jets and a couple needles and playing to see what works best. My suggestions for starting are a NEDW and a N3EW. 40-45 pilots. 172-180 mains. I've purchased through http://www.powersportsplus.com/ before and although it often takes a week or two for them to arrive and some needles are on back order, its just as quick as trying to get them locally and a fair bit cheaper.

Thanks for getting me onto powersportsplus I have ordered the needles you have recommended. Can't wait to get the EC running right.

Thanks again

 

[Jakobi]

No worries mate.

Yell out once your parts arrive and we'll get you a baseline to work with depending on the needles.

 

[theexception_03]

No worries mate.

Yell out once your parts arrive and we'll get you a baseline to work with depending on the needles.

My needle I ordered N1EC from the bike shop hasn't arrived yet (its coming up 5 weeks now since I placed the order with them) and hopefully I get the other needles I ordered from power sports next week....anyway...

I got my bike back and decided to try a few things with the N1EF. Couldn't get it to idle with this jetting;

clip #2
Main Jet 175
Pilot 45
I tried the A/S in all positions but no good

so I changed the clip to #1 with the same jets and it did idle
A/S 2.5
(I had to turn the idle screw nearly all the way in)
I have the DEP pipe on it and running 50:1

I will be in touch when the new needles arrive.

 

[Jakobi]

My needle I ordered N1EC from the bike shop hasn't arrived yet (its coming up 5 weeks now since I placed the order with them) and hopefully I get the other needles I ordered from power sports next week....anyway...

I got my bike back and decided to try a few things with the N1EF. Couldn't get it to idle with this jetting;

clip #2
Main Jet 175
Pilot 45
I tried the A/S in all positions but no good

so I changed the clip to #1 with the same jets and it did idle
A/S 2.5
(I had to turn the idle screw nearly all the way in)
I have the DEP pipe on it and running 50:1

I will be in touch when the new needles arrive.

The fact that the needle clip position is effecting idle tells me that you have the idle screw up too high and that you've bypassed the straight section of the needle and are fuelling off the first taper. This will work to a certain extent but the air screw won't have much affect and the bike will be very inconsistant in how well it idles.

Once you get a leaner diameter needle with a longer straight section in there you'll have a lot more success getting a consitant idle with an Air screw that works. Then you'll be free to shuffle clip positions to get the best response between 1/4 and 3/4 throttle. Hope your needles arrive soon!

 

[theexception_03]

The fact that the needle clip position is effecting idle tells me that you have the idle screw up too high and that you've bypassed the straight section of the needle and are fuelling off the first taper. This will work to a certain extent but the air screw won't have much affect and the bike will be very inconsistant in how well it idles.

Once you get a leaner diameter needle with a longer straight section in there you'll have a lot more success getting a consitant idle with an Air screw that works. Then you'll be free to shuffle clip positions to get the best response between 1/4 and 3/4 throttle. Hope your needles arrive soon!

Just to let you know what I will have in the way of needles and jets (once my needles arrive that is) if you can give me a good starting point to work with I can jump straight into it once the needles get here...

Needles NEDW, NECW, N3EW, N1EC
MJ 175, 180
PJ 38, 45

All my riding is done between 0 - 1000ft
Temp Range 10'C - 20'C
Humidity 35%-70% (I live in a dry climate)

Is it worth getting a couple more MJ's; 172 and 185?

Thanks
Tim

 

[Jakobi]

Just to let you know what I will have in the way of needles and jets (once my needles arrive that is) if you can give me a good starting point to work with I can jump straight into it once the needles get here...

Needles NEDW, NECW, N3EW, N1EC
MJ 175, 180
PJ 38, 45

All my riding is done between 0 - 1000ft
Temp Range 10'C - 20'C
Humidity 35%-70% (I live in a dry climate)

Is it worth getting a couple more MJ's; 172 and 185?

Thanks
Tim

I'd grab extra pilots. 40 & 42. Extra mains you can get later if you feel you need them.

Starting points
40 N3EW#3 180
40 NEDW#3 175

You could use the 45 pilot if you wanted but I'd suspect you'd have to come out on the AS a few too many which is why I suggested getting a 42 and 40 as well. NECW is just a half a clip leaner than NEDW so you can make half clip adjustments. Basically start in clip 3. Set the pilot and idle up with the slide almost closed. Then work the clip position for best response into the top end, then set the main up last.

 

[theexception_03]

I'd grab extra pilots. 40 & 42. Extra mains you can get later if you feel you need them.

Starting points
40 N3EW#3 180
40 NEDW#3 175

You could use the 45 pilot if you wanted but I'd suspect you'd have to come out on the AS a few too many which is why I suggested getting a 42 and 40 as well. NECW is just a half a clip leaner than NEDW so you can make half clip adjustments. Basically start in clip 3. Set the pilot and idle up with the slide almost closed. Then work the clip position for best response into the top end, then set the main up last.

Thanks for this, I really appreciate the info and the time you have taken to respond to my constant questioning! I can't wait to get this GG running right..its such great riding weather at the moment.

 

[GMP]

Jake,

One thing to note is this is an '05 250 with the older carb, and tends to like richer jetting. I'm thinking that the "W" straight section might be too lean. A JD Red with the same dia is way too lean to run in my bike. I'd work with specs that have a good history on pre ASII carb 250s like mine.

theException_03,

Your conditions are exactly like mine but a little drier. If you can get hold of a JD Blue needle, try it, you should be very happy. A common DDK should get you in the ballpark as well.

I'd start(assuming you have a #7 slide):

JD Blue or DDK #3
45 pilot
180 main
air screw 1.5 out

 

[Jakobi]

The Exception, I'd also take note of what Glenn has said above. He has much more knowledge and experience than I do, and particularly as you start to venture into the older models.

I had considered that the older models do prefer a bit richer jetting, but had also read your original post a few times and was more so addressing the comments you had made about the bike feeling rich with the stock needle and clip position. I think the needles you have ordered will give you a good starting point, however if it does come up too lean on the diameter, you'll have no issues selling them to someone else. I would even send you an N3EG if you needed. Its far too rich for me.

The other thing I have noticed over the years and regardless of brand, is that jetting specs for Australia and America are very rarely the same. Possibly fuel related.

 

[GMP]

True on the fuel difference. Just be careful, and start/err on the rich side.

 

[theexception_03]

Thanks, Is the JD Blue out of a suzuki? How do I get hold of one? I went onto Power Sports Plus but I can't find it.

Do i need to contact a suzuki deaker? I know they will ask me what bike its for.

I got my needles today and so i tried this set up;

NEDW #3
MJ 175
PJ 45
A/S varied from 1.5 thru to 2.5

I would have run a 40 pilot but I don't have one yet. Anyway it idled ok until I turned the handle bars, hard lock to the left the revs go up! So I adjusted the throttle cable off a bit, D'oh, it won't idle now! I know the setup might not be spot on and I will have to try other things but the throttle cable shouldn't effect the idle. Sorry guys just another issue.

FYI, I am running 100% octane fuel

 

[Jakobi]

JD needles are JD needles. Google JD jetting kits and you'll find them. They cost $$$.

The revs changing with the bars means somethings not right with the cable. Its either routed icorrebclty or binding on something.

The idle screw sets the slide height and then the cable clips into the slide and lifts the slide when you turn the throttle. If its binding or too short, then turning the bars will still pull the cable, raise the slide and make the engine race. It sounds like you've worked out the free slack so now you need to use the idle screw to lift the slide to get an idle.

 

[firffighter]

'03 EC250

CCK #2
175
35
1 1/2 turns out
#8 slide

NIRVANA

Runs crisp off bottom (35 pilot is key) and smooth transition to mid-top (CCK is key). Getting over 70 miles on the 2.9 tank!

Plug is perfect tan

500-4000 ft. elevation.

 

[theexception_03]

'03 EC250

CCK #2
175
35
1 1/2 turns out
#8 slide

NIRVANA

Runs crisp off bottom (35 pilot is key) and smooth transition to mid-top (CCK is key). Getting over 70 miles on the 2.9 tank!

Plug is perfect tan

500-4000 ft. elevation.

I have a #7 slide, is it worth trying this set up with my #7

 

[Jakobi]

IMO the 250 will work well with the #7 slide.

Seeing as you already have a few needles I'd start with the baselines you have. Set the idle up as described, move on to clip position, and then main jet.

The straight taper needles are easy to tune with as they have less variables, but imo they are fuel hungry and come at the cost of economy. Better results elsewhere.

 

[theexception_03]

IMO the 250 will work well with the #7 slide.

Seeing as you already have a few needles I'd start with the baselines you have. Set the idle up as described, move on to clip position, and then main jet.

The straight taper needles are easy to tune with as they have less variables, but imo they are fuel hungry and come at the cost of economy. Better results elsewhere.

Thanks, I am glad you think the #7 works best, I don't won't to buy any more carb parts. I am trying to get hold of a JD blue needle, no luck yet. I looked at the JD website but it seems I have to buy a full kit not just one needle. I have just been reading a thread about how the CDI on my bike could be the issue. How much do they cost? And where would I get one from?

 

[Elvis74]

is there somewhere an overview what which needles and which slides does or is there a genaral rule?

 

[lonetree]

Hi tim,
i would be a little careful about following what others are using in different countrys too, lots of different fuels, this will change jetting alot.
you have plenty of needles to play with to get your bike going well, follow the process as described by jakobi, (thanks for that by the way, cleared a few questions in my head.) and you will work out what is best for your bike...
and if you want, for comparison, as im just over in central victoria, riding similar altitudes, temps and weather, and fuel...
09 250r (with the older scew top carb)
40pj although im going to try a 42 yet.
NEDW 2nd clip
178 main
7 slide.
air screw is at the moment on about 1 turn but i keep playing with it and hence my wish to try a 42pj..
i cant say its perfect, but its bloody close...

dont worry about your cdi or anything yet, try your jetting first...
good luck.

 

[firffighter]

theexception,

Yes, it will work just as well with the #7 slide. My brother owns the same bike and has the same jetting except with the #7 slide and his runs just as well.

It really is perfectly jetted and you can simply run a gear high all of the time with no problem. It runs very similar to my 300 that way, but if you want a quicker response, just shift down a gear. Awesome!