Getting On The Gas

M

modifier

New member
I've been a KTM rider for many years but have been thinking of mixing it up and checking out a new GasGas. For 1 I like that they are a smaller company. I also like the idea that they are not afraid to spec what ever part seems to work best for the job. Like considering offering Smart Carbs stock or full Ohlins shocks and forks on their replica bikes.

My first questions were about the Marzocchi forks if I didn't end up with a replica bike. I've been into mountain biking for over 30 years so I know Marz from that. I have one of their shocks which works well but have never looked too hard at the forks because they were always heavier than my go to brand Fox. I also have Manitou, Rockshox, Pace and Maverick. So about everything but Marz. But after some post trading over at KTM talk people assured me that that was nothing to worry about and that they may actually be better than WP out of the box. I also had a long talk with the rep at Marzocchi USA but that is a whole other thread topic. Their new 48mm enduro fork looks good. Hope GG gets the red ones. That would look great.

The next thing I want to talk about is weight. I've heard they are smaller bikes than current KTMs and feel more like the pre 2007 KTMs but handle better. I am a steadfast 2T guy and feel the lighter the better. I just bought a 2013 250SX in a large part because it did not have electric start and weighs 215lbs. From what I can find a GG 250 is going to be about 20 lbs more than that. I guess the motors may not be as light and the frame looks more beefy, which may be partially accountable for their reputation for good tracking ability in turns. I've heard you don't feel it because of their handling traits but still weight is weight. I can really feel the difference between my 144 and 200 and the 250 that weighs about 15lbs more. Particularly when it's tight or I'm tired.

So maybe some of you could talk a bit about where the extra weight comes from.

Also I'm sure there are plenty of you here who are KTM guys too so maybe you could offer a few KTM vs GG thoughts.

At the moment this would be the bike I would be looking at the hardest. But I will likely be waiting for the 2014s to see what they have to offer. http://www.gasgasmotos.es/en/enduro/394-ec-300-guillaume-replica.html

Cheers
 
Thanks. I read the thread. It says a lot about how much some bikes weigh but nothing about why.

A recent test of KTMs at Dirtbike listed the actual weight of the KTM 250SX at 215lbs. My 144 probably weighs 200 and my 200 may be 205 to 210. From the weights people are quoting it seems like a slightly armored 300 electric start GG is going to weigh as much as my old 04 525 MXC, which is a pig I no longer what to ride, in my world. ;)

Lights are ok but why not just run a stator and no battery? All you lose is not running light. Also I'm sure an electric start is good in just the right situation but 2Ts start so easy and I also run Reklus in everything so basically unless I hit the kill button I don't ever have to restart my bikes.

I shipped off my 200 motor a couple of months ago and I think the weight with the box was like 26lbs. Don't quote me on that.

I'm not sure the 1 tire on a bathroom scale is accurate.

Just trying to get the facts ma'am.
 
The extra weight stock comes from a few things.

Heavy duty tubes
Sand cast engine
Bash plate
Pipe that isn't paper thin
Linkage
Renthal twinwall bars
FMF jumbo size Q-stealth
Solid Swingarm

Basically its just a lot of little things that all add up on the scales. In general the GG doesn't really end up weighing too much more than any other brand once they have been setup trail ready. IMO all the little things that add the weight are also what give these bikes superb reliability and durability. Its all a bit of a trade off.
 
Modifier, these bikes are stone cold reliable (even more so since 2009/10) with some known niggles which take minutes to fix. 100 to 150 hr piston changes, indefinite bottom ends, Japanese bearings (no more ktm wheel bearing failures), Japanese ignitions etc.

When reading this forum for a while, you will laugh as guys post problems with their bikes and its usually an 03 or a 99 etc and most other brands are long gone by then. I think the extra weight is in the reliability.

You don't notice it riding till you have to pull it out of a seat deep muddy rut.
 
Clay said:
Modifier,
Where are you from?
Clay
Click to expand...


Hi Clay. I'm in Kansas City. I've been meaning to call you. I spoke with Dale the other day. He told me that he only dealt with trials bikes and that I needed to get a hold of you. I may want to get a trials bike too at some point to gain some skills. Many of the guys wining the hard core enduros come from trials. As I'm sure you are aware.

Chris
 
Chris
The Marzocchi forks are awesome.
I have a 2012 XC300
My Zokes have been completely rebuilt by Pro-Action Suspension. They installed there own valving system and now my "Zoke's" are basically KYB's with Marzocchi name on the outside!! Trust me they are awesome! You will never turn back.
 
I posted over on KTM talk and gave you some feedback. Since there is snow on the ground I have too much time on my hands so I just went to the shop and looked at my 250 Sx an 300 GasGas and did some weight measurments.


Rear sprocket Steath VS Aluminum 1 lb
Skid Plate 3
Headlight Vs Number late 1.5
Tailight 2
Brake Rotors are thicker .5
Flywheel .75
Pipe 1
Silencer (Q Vs Stock VS FMF) .5-1.7
Radiator Guards 2
Kickstand .5
Brake Calipers .5
Gas Tank (Stock GasGas VS Sx) .5
Extra frame Protection under engine .75
Thermostat .25

So 13-15 lbs and alot of it can be removed. I did not include linkaage because it is known all linkage bikes are a little heavier. Most of the weights are measured. some are estimates.

A few comments. I had a KTM pipe because it was flatten by rocks coming off the front wheel. My GasGas pipe is still looking great after a year. I really don't know why the Gas gas needs a skid plate with the extra frame protection it has. I have an 05 with out a skid plate. Overall I was surpised myself on how the bolt on stuff added weight.


Forgot - Need to add the weight of the 6 speed Vs the SX 5 Speed
 
Thanks for those numbers. Something to do in the cold hey ;)

You are the second person to mention linkage. My 250 has linkage. I really don't want to go back to a bike without it.

Also even though the SX has a 5 speed the gears are twice as wide as the gears in a 6 speed. Much stronger (not that the 6 speed gears fail) and probably just has heavy if not more than 6 skinny gears. There is a conversion thread somewhere with a picture of both right next to each other.

I guess they don't offer MX bikes any more? Someone must have stripped one down at some point to see how light they could get it.

Beyond the sand cast engine case someone mentioned at least parts of he KTM engine are magnesium. That will save some weight.

"Solid swing arm"? Seriously? What's it made of?

Not applicable to this conversation but in 450SX 4 stroke bikes Honda is the champ of light right now at 9 lbs less than the KTM, which is the second lightest. But basically all the other normal suspects are about the same as the KTM by a couple of pounds. Not talking about small production euro bikes here. Still waiting on Ossa.
 
My buddies 2012 EC feels just as heavy as my older '03 EC, when pushing them up the ramp into the truck. That's where it ends. Fire them up, and let out the clutch, and the weight seems to fall off the '12.
 
modifier said:
Thanks for those numbers. Something to do in the cold hey ;)

You are the second person to mention linkage. My 250 has linkage. I really don't want to go back to a bike without it.

Also even though the SX has a 5 speed the gears are twice as wide as the gears in a 6 speed. Much stronger (not that the 6 speed gears fail) and probably just has heavy if not more than 6 skinny gears. There is a conversion thread somewhere with a picture of both right next to each other.

I guess they don't offer MX bikes any more? Someone must have stripped one down at some point to see how light they could get it.

Beyond the sand cast engine case someone mentioned at least parts of he KTM engine are magnesium. That will save some weight.

"Solid swing arm"? Seriously? What's it made of?

Not applicable to this conversation but in 450SX 4 stroke bikes Honda is the champ of light right now at 9 lbs less than the KTM, which is the second lightest. But basically all the other normal suspects are about the same as the KTM by a couple of pounds. Not talking about small production euro bikes here. Still waiting on Ossa.
Click to expand...

I was comparing to my 2009 SX that does not have linkage. I think that bike was 208 lbs. That is why I said the linkage is similar on all bikes. I actally have a 2011 GASGAS and that linkage does have more parts that the new GasGas and other bikes. That is why it has been mentioned before. I think the 6 speed GasGas is heavier than the 5 speed KTM. I agree that KTM fit the 6 speed in the same size as the 5 speed. I also did not mention the 19 inch wheel with stock eveything on the KTM was 24.8 lbs and I had an 18 inch trials tire with a super heady duty tube about 31 lbs. KTM puts both light tires and tubes in their stock bikes - smart marketing for those that buy off spec sheets alone. I can tell you that I personally can really feel the weight of super heavy duty tubes in the wheels. I have settled on bridgestone heavy duty which are flat resistent for me and relatively light. I have used tublis but have decided they are not worth the extra work for me but they are a great path to a light rear wheel.
 
bowhunter007 said:
My buddies 2012 EC feels just as heavy as my older '03 EC, when pushing them up the ramp into the truck. That's where it ends. Fire them up, and let out the clutch, and the weight seems to fall off the '12.
Click to expand...

I represent that remark sometimes, but not very often - the new-gen bikes are super confidence inspiring, even if somewhat portly, and I don't fall off as much as I should for what I ask the bike to do.

If you didn't own scales or have to put the thing on the stand you'd guess it several pounds lighter than it is.
 
twowheels said:
I represent that remark sometimes, but not very often - the new-gen bikes are super confidence inspiring, even if somewhat portly, and I don't fall off as much as I should for what I ask the bike to do.

If you didn't own scales or have to put the thing on the stand you'd guess it several pounds lighter than it is.
Click to expand...
I was pleasantly surprised at how light and nimble the '12 bikes feel, after getting off an older version.

Old vs. new: 2012 vs 2001

http://
 
Not solid as in solid steel. Just as in robust. The whole bike is built tough.

I've put 7000kms on my 2010 model. I've done pistons just shy of 100hrs and they have come out well within spec including ring gaps. Pipe is still in good condition but has been coupled with a P3 pipe guard. I really can't find anything to complain about without being fussy. Would I buy another one. Ahuh! The only thing stopping me is that I don't really feel the need. I'm that chuffed with the one I have.
 
modifier said:
Hi Clay. I'm in Kansas City. I've been meaning to call you. I spoke with Dale the other day. He told me that he only dealt with trials bikes and that I needed to get a hold of you. I may want to get a trials bike too at some point to gain some skills. Many of the guys wining the hard core enduros come from trials. As I'm sure you are aware.

Chris
Click to expand...

I was hoping you were closer so I could offer you a demo ride so you could decide for yourself. If you can get to the Nashville area I will be happy to take you riding.
 
I find this thread interesting and never thought to weigh my Honda XR650R...I'm like now wondering what you guys are complaining about I came to 341 lbs with maybe 3 gallons of fuel in the bike (it can hold 6.5 gallons, I also have HDB hand guards, GPS, other protection stuff).

So if on the new Gas Gas I'm at 260'ish pounds...that be 81 pounds lighter...LOL

I guess if I am able to single track that beast, it's going to be light years lighter on the crazy trails. :D Maybe i should of got a lighter bike a few years back...LOL

One way I got the Gas Gas, I told the wife it's impressive that I can ride that XRR through some crazy terrain but I'm also beating myself up doing it, and at the age of 37 now...I know I'm only getting older.
 
Clay said:
I was hoping you were closer so I could offer you a demo ride so you could decide for yourself. If you can get to the Nashville area I will be happy to take you riding.
Click to expand...

I'm thinking of hauling the new Gas Gas to TN, Frankewing just off of I65. My parents have 138 acres plus my mother knows people. This probably be around the end of August this year (2013) as I have a wedding in MI to go to.

Any good areas to ride that I should look into besides just playing on my parents property...which is a hoot to do on an ATV, never rode a dirt bike there before.

I know of one place due to the sister being friends with my mother. The family owns like 30,000 acres south of Winchester on 16. The brother does ATV riding and hunting on his 15,000 acre's for a small fee.

I'll probably hit you up Clay on jetting for the TN area closer to the time.
 
There is a place near Winchester called Cumberland Mountain Riding Association (CMRA) that has two 20+ mile loops and one 30+ mile loop. Then the NATRA property is near Lawrenceburg, TN. Let me know when you are in the area and we can go to one or both of them.
 
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