GG vs KTM...current KTM rider

gmoss

New member
Not many GG around my parts. Rare birds they are. What can you guys say are the major differences in how each ride. Been on KTM for some time and seriously considering a change...for changes sake to a degree.

Wouldn't mind trying linkage again, which leads me to my first consideration, suspension. Can someone describe the difference I will see going to the GG?

Maintenance, how are the GG's to tear down for routine cleaning and maintenance?

Engine, how do they compare?

Overall, seems like I can get more for my dollar with them. They seem more boutique, kind of like KTM was several years ago, still offering Ohlins, etc.

Am I better off staying on KTM, just going newer, or is the GG worth a look?

Would be looking at a 2011 either way, possibly 12 if I could find a good used XC KTM with linkage...
 
What year KTM are you coming off?? You know the best person to answer this is Mr Clay as he's had ample experience with both bikes.

The major differences noted here are that Gas Gas has spent the last 14 years addressing issues and refining their product. There hasn't been any major changes over the years but all the minor changes improve on the last and make a great bike.

IMO the major difference you will notice between the KTM and the Gasser is how they ride. The way they feel is completely different. The Gassers (especially 2011 and older) feel very japanese in the Ergo department. You really sit on the bike and feel like you're sitting in it. For me the KTM always felt like I was just sitting on top of a rocket ship. The Gasser will bring back your confident in a bikes ability to handle. You won't add a steering damper because you have to, you might add one as a safety feature. You'll be blown away how balanced the chasis is and at the bikes ability to change direction. You'll find yourself dropping it up the inside line more than you ever have. They weigh a bit on scales (which everyone brings up), but when riding they are much narrower than the other bikes and feel really nimble. The weight is only noticed when lifting.

Maintenance. The older the bike the more qwerks you'll find, mostly regarding the fittings and fixtures. My 2010 goes together really well, as long as you have every imaginable size socket, allen key, torx bit, spanner. Haha! Its not really as bad as I make out, but its definitely not all 8,10,12mm like it should be. The 2012 is said to be much improved. Keep the bearings greased, fresh oil in the tranny and the air filter clean and you'll see one of the most resiliant engines out there. I pulled my first piston at 75hrs and still had 0.5mm ring gaps. GMP recently rode his 2012 with no coolant (thread of its own) and didn't result in any damage.

Engine wise. Its just a 2 stroke. Stock they come pretty average with some big tolerances to ensure the can run on fuels world wide. Take the time to check the preload on the power valve, and if you don't mind putting a few dollars in get the squish set. Best value mod you can do and will make the bike more resiliant to changes in temp and altitude. You'll pick up some grunt top to bottom and improved milage too. The PV is a very basic design that works. The engine responds very well to jetting and can be tuned to run like an MXer to silky smooth just by changing the needles around (basically same as any 2T). The engine doesn't feel all that powerful or explosive, but it is deceptively quick.

Suspension is a tricky topic as it involves the person and their riding area and style a lot. Some bikes came with 48mm CC Zokes, 48mm Sachs OC Forks, or 45mm OC Zokes. The CC are the pick if you can get a set. They are only on 2011 Race models and 2012 models. The OC forks can work well with a revalve but some people have struggled to get them to work well across a variety of conditions. A limitation of their design more than anything else. The shocks are either Sachs, Ohlins 888, or Ohlins TTX. All good and all great after a revalve. TTX inserts are also available for all forks if you feel you want to bling it! Out of the crate the 2011 Race or 2012 models come best to just ride without any work. They are the pick! Re spring for your weight and you're gold.

They are botique, but they are moving forward. The last few years I have seen more people buying and asking about them. At least here in Australia they are pretty popular. Parts availability is a non issue for consumables. Some rarer parts can take some time to come from the factory, but thats the same for other brands too.

I think you'd be mad not to consider the Gasser, but at the end of the day its only you that will know if you want one or not. Sit on one and see how it feels. If you get to take one for a ride you'll know why we all own them.

I have rode a 2011 TE 300 (blue ktm with CC forks) and it was nice. The owner of that commented that the Gasser (2010 EC250) felt a bit stiff, but turned well, went exactly where you pointed it, and wasn't short on power.
I honestly haven't ridden a 2012 Ktm so can't compare to that, but I can tell you I have never heard of anyone changing the triple clamp offset on a Gas Gas to try and make it steer/handle. Just sayin :D

The choice is all yours!

Cheers
Jake
 
What part of the world do you live in? Maybe someone here can let you have test ride?

Last week I had a 2st Berg rider chase me down to compliment my Gasser. I also liked his 2011 te250.
 
Sorry guys, just realized my location doesn't show. I live in the foothills of NC, riding technical ST, racing some enduros from time to time. I ride a KTM 2008 200, converted from a 144 SX, with milled head, and many other mods. Bike runs strong, but it seems every time I get on a linked bike, I can't help but feel that it is more planted and easier on my back. Everyone that rides my bike likes it, and I should probably keep it, but I have been on a 200 for 4+ years now...and getting older, 43. Wouldn't mind something that I can go fast on, easier. I can run a B pace, but my endurance is lacking due to not getting to ride as much.

Jakobi, thanks for the detailed writeup. ;)
 
I've owned 3 KTM 250 exc/xcw, one older 200, a 450exc, 350 sx, and a 250f for a very brief period. My latest 250 was a 2009 250xcw with $1,200 worth of suspension work. Suspension is very important to me because of 20 years of chronic lower back issues. After becoming disabled I had an extensive back surgery that took well over a year to recover from, but I'm much better now.

I haven't spent a dime on the GG suspension! I raced a 70 mile enduro a couple of weeks ago, and my back held up just fine (3rd one this year plus a couple of HS's). To me that says just about everything about the suspension.

Motor wise it is very comparable to the KTM once the jetting is dialed in. It is really hard to say that one has an advantage over the other in that department because they are both very tunable. One advantage that the KTM does have is the ease of adjustability of the PV.

I owned a 2011 350sx for a few months, but I preferred my 2009 250xcw so I sold the 350. That is the newest KTM that've rode.

Surprisingly, I felt at home on the GG immediately. There was very little if any adjustment period because it handled so well right off the bat. I remember riding them back to back, and the GG just seemed to handle better, and my KTM was no slouch. The GG definitely inspired confidence from the very beginning. I also remember being surpised at how peppy the engine was the first time I rode it.

Disclaimer my 2011 is the Race version with the 48mm forks. They had to break in a bit before they really soaked up the small stuff well, but no complaints now. Without a doubt the best out of the box suspension that I've rode.

If I had to complain about something regarding the GG in comparison to the KTM it is the availability of slightly used parts. You can find about anything on KTMTALK, but it takes more patience when searching for used GG parts. I haven't had any issues getting what I need new though.
 
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Gmoss.
I am near Nashville so we aren't too far away. Can you come over here to demo a bike? I could go to all of the effort that Jakobi did but you would expect me to say those things OR I could just let you ride the bike. My email is clay@ggor.us and my phone number is 615 347 6519. Let me know if you can come over this way.
Clay
 
Gmoss.
I am near Nashville so we aren't too far away. Can you come over here to demo a bike? I could go to all of the effort that Jakobi did but you would expect me to say those things OR I could just let you ride the bike. My email is clay@ggor.us and my phone number is 615 347 6519. Let me know if you can come over this way.
Clay

Thats an offer I wouldn't refuse! When can I come Clay? :p

No worries for the ramble Gmoss. Just clackin away over the morning coffee.
 
I'm living in Florida now but I'm from North East Tennesse about 58 miles from Boone NC. I grew up riding in tight mountain single track. You will love a GG b/c they turn better than any bike out there. The motors are reliable, smooth and fast. Try one you will like it.:)
 
gmoss - Interestingly enough I am 43 came off a KTM 200 two months ago and am now on a 2011 250 six days with 45mm Zokes/Ohlins 888. I don't have a ton of riding on it yet (12 hrs?) but these are some things I can tell you.

Jakobi pretty much nailed it with the fasteners, but just for some background here's my experience. My KTM was a 2008 200XC and was revalved and resprung from the previous owner, I don't know the speed or size of the previous owner but I was able to dial the suspension in to where it felt really good, much better than the 2000 KTM 200 I had years earlier.

After an initial few rides on the GG the front end felt really scary to me, deflected off everything and not supple anywhere. After doing lotsa research on this site I decided to send the suspension to Dave at STM Suspension. Bottom line is I couldn't be happier with the results. Works well on a really broad range of terrain. Less headshake than my 200 had and still carves like crazy. I'm still over steering in smooth switchbacks because I'm not used to the steering. Not bad mind you, the bike just turns.

Another mod I did (from reading this forum again) was send the head and carb off to Ron at RB-Designs. Once again, well worth the money, bike runs very clean with little more than a clip position change and a tweak of the airscrew and that's in 100 degree weather at 500 ft altitude. Also the bike sips fuel now instead of gulping it.

Between the two bikes, obviously the 250 severely outmotors the 200 but the handling is what really surprised me. The GG feels much narrower and just as light if not lighter. From a standing position the bike is incredibly flickable with the knees. The bike also makes me want to ride in more of an aggressive attack position. I can't explain why but it just does. The other thing I noticed that when I occasionally get a little over my head :eek: and launch off the trail I can reel it back in and get back on the trail where when I would get in that position on my 200 I couldn't save it and would sample some tree bark. :(

I took an 8 year break from riding at all and just started racing again in Feb after picking up the 200 in Jan. I race B class harescrambles and will be moving to the A class for next year. I am 5'11" 168 lbs and I love how the GG handles. It feels heavier to lift on the stand but that's where the heavy feeling ends.

If you can find a dealer anywhere near I wouldn't hesitate to ask them to try one. I doubt you'll regret it.

Good Luck!
 
singletracker, I have owned a variety of KTM's myself, 04 300, 05 250 E, 05 200 E, 06 300W, 07 250SX, 07 250SXF. Your description is what I keep reading. If I could buy a bike and it work like that with little expense, then that would make up for the loss in resale everyone keeps talking about.

Clay, I would like very much to ride one, but it's a 6 hr drive, almost 400 miles one way. IDK if I would have the time any time soon. I would want to have mine sold and some money saved before making that trip. I need to check our local HS series board to see if anyone has one I can throw a leg over.
 
The previous platform GGs (pre '12) were more stable and turned better than a KTM not to mention suspension. The '12 chassis takes it to another level. I rode over 30 miles of rocky PA mountain single track yesterday with Cruiser in the pouring rain, and the bike was totally connected like nothing I've ridden before.
 
One thing that nobody has mentioned is that possibly due to the smaller population of GG bikes out there is that although there is less choice regarding aftermarket parts and protection bits the bits that are available work well (the cr@ppy parts just don't last in this small market I suppose)

Also unlike the orange brands you do not find "experts" at every turn. The guys advertising that they work on GG know what they are doing. Since I have been on this forum I do not think I have seen any rants about poor service or poor workmanship - you don't rip off your family!

PS at Erzberg you will see lots of ktms then the next most popular is GG (although with them constantly changing the colour scheme it is not as obvious as the shades of orange), then there is a fairly equal mix of huskys, betas, they are not as "exotic" as in the rest of the world. Incidentally erzberg has only ever been won by ktm and GG
 
singletracker, I have owned a variety of KTM's myself, 04 300, 05 250 E, 05 200 E, 06 300W, 07 250SX, 07 250SXF. Your description is what I keep reading. If I could buy a bike and it work like that with little expense, then that would make up for the loss in resale everyone keeps talking about.

Clay, I would like very much to ride one, but it's a 6 hr drive, almost 400 miles one way. IDK if I would have the time any time soon. I would want to have mine sold and some money saved before making that trip. I need to check our local HS series board to see if anyone has one I can throw a leg over.

Let's stay in touch. I am going to Atlanta next week to pick up a 200 so I will have it if we can hook up sometime. Let me know.

Jakobi....that offer is open to any time you want! ;)
 
Let's stay in touch. I am going to Atlanta next week to pick up a 200 so I will have it if we can hook up sometime. Let me know.

Jakobi....that offer is open to any time you want! ;)

Sweet. Just pop by with a 2013 200 any time. I'll make sure I'm here! Might even have a few beers and some money for you too! :D
 
The previous platform GGs (pre '12) were more stable and turned better than a KTM not to mention suspension. The '12 chassis takes it to another level. I rode over 30 miles of rocky PA mountain single track yesterday with Cruiser in the pouring rain, and the bike was totally connected like nothing I've ridden before.

Couldn't agree more. It seems that the more snotty and junky the trail gets, the better these bikes like it.
I have a 2009 Husky TXC310 which is very well set up and has been a very good bike for me. However, since I got my '12 250ES, the poor Husky is just collecting dust.
Some of my riding buddies are usually just a bit quicker than me(on KTM's), but when it get wet and nasty, I leave them sitting, cause this bike rides so well.
Now, here's the problem. One of them is seriously looking at a 2013 GG. I know he'll love the bike, but he'll instantly be faster than me again (in the crap)if he gets one. It's a real dilemma for my pride:D darn........LOL
 
Let's stay in touch. I am going to Atlanta next week to pick up a 200 so I will have it if we can hook up sometime. Let me know.

Jakobi....that offer is open to any time you want! ;)

Thanks. Anytime you can get closer, that is a possibility. I ride often enough, just have a hard time getting away for very long with family stuff going on.

It would be great to have a ride on one before selling mine, motivation I guess.

Speaking of nasty offroad. I used to like to ride gnarly trails, and the worse it was, the better the bike worked, my 05 200. Seems the newer 08 is more moto, fast trails designed, from the ergos to the susp. I know it was an SX before I got it, but I have pretty much transformed it into an XC and valved it for offroad. However, it still doesn't really like the slow and technical stuff as well.
 
singletracker, I have owned a variety of KTM's myself, 04 300, 05 250 E, 05 200 E, 06 300W, 07 250SX, 07 250SXF. Your description is what I keep reading. If I could buy a bike and it work like that with little expense, then that would make up for the loss in resale everyone keeps talking about.

Clay, I would like very much to ride one, but it's a 6 hr drive, almost 400 miles one way. IDK if I would have the time any time soon. I would want to have mine sold and some money saved before making that trip. I need to check our local HS series board to see if anyone has one I can throw a leg over.

I'm not sure if you ride any national enduro's but I'm 99% sure that Clay will be at the Gobbler Getter in Alabama the first weekend of November. That would be an easy way to get to ride a new GG and be able to race the best enduro in the southeast...
 
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