Clay
Banned
I definitely plan to be there.
GG vs KTM...current KTM rider
- Thread starter gmoss
- Start date
I definitely plan to be there.
I am replying to an older thread, but I have some imput. I have fairly recently owned an 04 KTM EXC 2t, and an 02 KTM 520. I guess the 520 comparo is useless because they are so different, but the 2ts are fairly close to compare. My GG is an 01 XC. I have also recently owned an 03 Yamaha 250 2 stroke, a DRZ 400, and Honda CRF 250X.
Power delivery on the GG 250 is far better to me than the KTM. The bike almost never stalls, and is much more manageable. I got my KTM to have good smooth but manageable power by adding the SX head, piston, and CDI box. Those mods made it snappier off bottom with no "hit", just linear power that I could control by shifting up or slipping the clutch. The GG has some hit, but is smooth and manageable. All I have done is add a 12 oz. flywheel wt, but it was not necessary, just a mod to help me not get tired as quickly. I almost never stall the GG, but did stall the KTM. The GG is a bit slower to come on the pipe, but then pulls about the same as the KTM, maybe just a bit slower to rev. I can climb technical rocky hills on the GG without too much effort. On the KTM I had to be more careful with all rider inputs. It feels like both bikes would be about equal in a good traction drag race, but the KTM may win. Poor traction, and the GG would probably win a drag race. Overall, the GG puts power down better. Again, very close but slight edge to the GG. In deep sand/loam, I think the KTM would be better. Lighter and a bit more powerful, but again for a variety of terrain the GG has better power delivery and tires me out way less.
The suspension on the GG is much better. Both bikes have the same WP forks, but the GG is a bit more plush while still not bottoming hard. Different valving? The turning of the GG is a bit slower but still crisp, which I like. The front tire on the GG sticks better on all type of turns than the KTM, and it is a bit more stable everywhere. I had to add a steering damper to the KTM. It would benefit the GG, but not necessary. The GG is at least 15 lbs heavier, but not noticeable at speed, except in a good way. The extra weight keeps the bike from dancing around on roots and rocks while the KTM was a bit more unstable and sort of got unpredictable in loose rocks. I can slam bumps, rocks, roots, ledges etc. on the GG where I had to use more finesse on the KTM to keep it tracking straight. I have more options of how to attack varied terrain on the GG. I can steer around, or slam it. On the KTM if I slammed obstacles I'd end up on my head occasionally. I think the slightly slower steering and linkage suspension both aid me in overall handling on the GG. I think linkage suspension really helps on acceleration over rough terrain. Older KX 2 strokes work great under acceleration and the GG is just as good.
Brakes are grabbier but more powerful on the KTM. Good traction, KTM wins, average to poor traction, GG wins. I can brake slide the GG while I usually had to front steer through turns on the KTM. Again, close but the GG is a little easier and allows me to choose whether to brake slide or front steer through turns. The KTM wanted to stand up while brake sliding, and was harder to trail brake due to the grabby brakes. I can simply modulate stopping chores on the GG, but still lock either end if neccesary.
The riding position is far better on the KTM for my 6'2" long leg frame. The GG feels too tight ergonomically. I am using a homeade tall seat and tall bend bars. KTM wins ergos hands down for me when stock, and allows more adjustability, but getting the GG comfortable for me was not hard, I just had to do a bit more work. One thing I also noticed is the shifter and brake levers are longer, farther away from the pegs. This is good for me with size 14 boots.
Overall, for me the GG works better in almost all areas. Some aspects are very close, but other than ergos the GG wins in all categories.
My skill level is Vet B, and I am a 90% sit down rider. Stand up riders may prefer the KTM especially due to ergonomics.
Finally, comparing ability to work on the bike, the GG is much easier. I can remove the carb, change a plug, adjust the throttle cable, etc. more easily on the GG.
Jeff.
Power delivery on the GG 250 is far better to me than the KTM. The bike almost never stalls, and is much more manageable. I got my KTM to have good smooth but manageable power by adding the SX head, piston, and CDI box. Those mods made it snappier off bottom with no "hit", just linear power that I could control by shifting up or slipping the clutch. The GG has some hit, but is smooth and manageable. All I have done is add a 12 oz. flywheel wt, but it was not necessary, just a mod to help me not get tired as quickly. I almost never stall the GG, but did stall the KTM. The GG is a bit slower to come on the pipe, but then pulls about the same as the KTM, maybe just a bit slower to rev. I can climb technical rocky hills on the GG without too much effort. On the KTM I had to be more careful with all rider inputs. It feels like both bikes would be about equal in a good traction drag race, but the KTM may win. Poor traction, and the GG would probably win a drag race. Overall, the GG puts power down better. Again, very close but slight edge to the GG. In deep sand/loam, I think the KTM would be better. Lighter and a bit more powerful, but again for a variety of terrain the GG has better power delivery and tires me out way less.
The suspension on the GG is much better. Both bikes have the same WP forks, but the GG is a bit more plush while still not bottoming hard. Different valving? The turning of the GG is a bit slower but still crisp, which I like. The front tire on the GG sticks better on all type of turns than the KTM, and it is a bit more stable everywhere. I had to add a steering damper to the KTM. It would benefit the GG, but not necessary. The GG is at least 15 lbs heavier, but not noticeable at speed, except in a good way. The extra weight keeps the bike from dancing around on roots and rocks while the KTM was a bit more unstable and sort of got unpredictable in loose rocks. I can slam bumps, rocks, roots, ledges etc. on the GG where I had to use more finesse on the KTM to keep it tracking straight. I have more options of how to attack varied terrain on the GG. I can steer around, or slam it. On the KTM if I slammed obstacles I'd end up on my head occasionally. I think the slightly slower steering and linkage suspension both aid me in overall handling on the GG. I think linkage suspension really helps on acceleration over rough terrain. Older KX 2 strokes work great under acceleration and the GG is just as good.
Brakes are grabbier but more powerful on the KTM. Good traction, KTM wins, average to poor traction, GG wins. I can brake slide the GG while I usually had to front steer through turns on the KTM. Again, close but the GG is a little easier and allows me to choose whether to brake slide or front steer through turns. The KTM wanted to stand up while brake sliding, and was harder to trail brake due to the grabby brakes. I can simply modulate stopping chores on the GG, but still lock either end if neccesary.
The riding position is far better on the KTM for my 6'2" long leg frame. The GG feels too tight ergonomically. I am using a homeade tall seat and tall bend bars. KTM wins ergos hands down for me when stock, and allows more adjustability, but getting the GG comfortable for me was not hard, I just had to do a bit more work. One thing I also noticed is the shifter and brake levers are longer, farther away from the pegs. This is good for me with size 14 boots.
Overall, for me the GG works better in almost all areas. Some aspects are very close, but other than ergos the GG wins in all categories.
My skill level is Vet B, and I am a 90% sit down rider. Stand up riders may prefer the KTM especially due to ergonomics.
Finally, comparing ability to work on the bike, the GG is much easier. I can remove the carb, change a plug, adjust the throttle cable, etc. more easily on the GG.
Jeff.
jdtriplett
New member
What city do you live in ? I have family in N Wilkesboro and was planning trip to Brushy Mountain Motor Sports Park which in our back yard .. I have 11 EC 200 I would be willing fro you to test out for a day ..
I have been asking the same questions in other threads about the older 200s vs 250s vs 300 GGs.
I have gotten so many responses and PMs here I think I've got enough info. I'm either going to rebuild my XC with a stock motor and do some ignition and PV mods, or maybe do a 265 motor with the same mods. I don't want to make it much harder to kickstart, but a 265 shouldn't be noticeably harder and may give me just enough extra overall power so I can set it up for low end torque and still have enough mid-top pull.
That is I'll rebuild my 01 motor unless I can find an older EC with a good motor and cheap! I think I'd like the EC ignition better, and maybe even the EC fork?
I have gotten so many responses and PMs here I think I've got enough info. I'm either going to rebuild my XC with a stock motor and do some ignition and PV mods, or maybe do a 265 motor with the same mods. I don't want to make it much harder to kickstart, but a 265 shouldn't be noticeably harder and may give me just enough extra overall power so I can set it up for low end torque and still have enough mid-top pull.
That is I'll rebuild my 01 motor unless I can find an older EC with a good motor and cheap! I think I'd like the EC ignition better, and maybe even the EC fork?
Last edited:
GMP
Active member
Don't screw around with a 265 big bore, not worth the trouble. If you want more than a 250 start with a 300 and soften it up. Much easier, and your using stock parts. Even your 250 power valve parts drop in without change, and you can go back to a 250 easily.
I'm starting to wonder if the newer bikes in general are tuned a little softer down low and stronger up top. The older 300s I rode were a bit more gnarly off the bottom, as well as my 250s. Maybe this is why all you new 300 guys say its no big deal in the tight woods.
I'm starting to wonder if the newer bikes in general are tuned a little softer down low and stronger up top. The older 300s I rode were a bit more gnarly off the bottom, as well as my 250s. Maybe this is why all you new 300 guys say its no big deal in the tight woods.
GMP
Active member
Mine came with a 2K-2 lightweight ignition and a JD CDI from Italy, not by design but by lack of spec parts. I like the light ignitions on 250s, but swapped the Kokusan CDI in from the '07 bike, no real difference. My bike responded VERY well to the head mod, stock squish was a sloppy 3mm at the edge of the dome. Its quite fast and very fuel efficient. After the race at Sahara Sands last Sunday, which was really wide open quite a bit, I had about a gallon left. Fuel is a non-issue, no pit stop needed.
What do you mean by different ignition, flywheel/stator or CDI?
Jake,
The 300s have a compression bleed hole over the exhaust port to ease kicking, 250s do not.
What do you mean by different ignition, flywheel/stator or CDI?
Jake,
The 300s have a compression bleed hole over the exhaust port to ease kicking, 250s do not.
I am starting to realize that GGs have had many diiffrences in setup from the factory or from the US importer, varying by year and model. Even varying from initial buyer if the buyer ordered something unique, or had a dealer do a unique setup. That attention to detail and exclusivity is something I love. I can't afford a custom ordered Lamborghini, but owning a used GG is kinda like that to some extent. This variation in product is not something I'm experienced with on setup of a used bike, however.
From what I can gather, my 01 GG 250 XC may have a number of differences from any other GG of the same year, model, or initial buyer.
If I read between the lines accurately, my bike has a small/light flywheel-lighting coil, pretty high compression, and is generally tuned for a faster and more aggressive rider. All this makes sense because I used to be one of those dudes, and I really liked agressive power, handling, and overall setup. I borrowed this bike to do a 9 hr race and fell in love with it. There were a few things I didn't like but a lot of things I really liked, so I bought it.
All previous said, I love the handling, ergos, (after some work), brakes, and build quality. I'm hooked. Now I have to de-tune/re-tune the bike for me. But I have a very solid starting point.
I like sleepy but strong power. If that makes sense. If not, hit me in the nose and wake me up. My brain is strong but a bit sleepy. Drain brammage and oldtimers disease. I like plush cushy suspension, but sharp and versatile turning, which often doesn't go together. My GG makes it happen.
I recently owned a well tuned 01 GG 300 EC. It was a bit hard to kick, and had a bit too agressive power for me. 10 yrs ago I would have loved it. Now I'm in survival mode I guess. I want plush suspension and predictable power. I enjoyed the 300 power more, but am faster/smoother on the 250, although I want a little more power at times.
Did I mention that my kickstart foot/leg is severely damaged and partially non-functional? I could kick start my 300 but it really hurt and was tough to do on sidehills or off camber situations where I couldn't get my body centered and use my weight and leverage. Also the 300 power was fun but not the best way for me to go fast for a long time. I was fast in a sprint on the 300 but slow in a marathon.
It's hard for even me to understand or explain but there is a cutoff point where I have problems starting a bike with a kicker due to my bum leg. I can easily start my 250 but a 300 is not 50cc harder but more like 200cc harder. If that makes sense. At least my 300 was like that, although I don't really know if it was stock or not.
When I was young and tough I was really fast on a KX 500. Now I would still be fast on it if I could start it. Fast for 30 minutes, and if someone else started it on the line for me. If I killed the motor I'd either cry when I restarted it or I'd just have to sit there until a sweep guy came along to start it for me.
Someone needs to make a retro-fit e start system for older big bore 2 strokes.
And all previous said, I am very anal about little things on bikes. Maybe thats why I love my old GG, it really covers alot of little-thing bases for me. Now I'm trying to fine tune it to cover ALL the little bases. I often ride with younger riders who are faster than me if I don't really pay attention to detail and get a bike setup near perfect for me with my old body and injuries. I hate to whine about my problems, but even worse I hate to slow down the group on a fast trail ride, so I am trying to perfect a scoot for myself. Hence all the detailed questions and such.
I had given up on being fast on a 2 stroke until I rode my current GG. I won't go into why, but 4ts help me overcome personal issues. Anyway, I am confident that with a little more work I can be reasonably fast on my 250, and for sure I'm gonna try to make it work. I really don't have that far to go to do so.
Thanks so much for all the help! I have gotten more help and advice on this site than I could have imagined.
From what I can gather, my 01 GG 250 XC may have a number of differences from any other GG of the same year, model, or initial buyer.
If I read between the lines accurately, my bike has a small/light flywheel-lighting coil, pretty high compression, and is generally tuned for a faster and more aggressive rider. All this makes sense because I used to be one of those dudes, and I really liked agressive power, handling, and overall setup. I borrowed this bike to do a 9 hr race and fell in love with it. There were a few things I didn't like but a lot of things I really liked, so I bought it.
All previous said, I love the handling, ergos, (after some work), brakes, and build quality. I'm hooked. Now I have to de-tune/re-tune the bike for me. But I have a very solid starting point.
I like sleepy but strong power. If that makes sense. If not, hit me in the nose and wake me up. My brain is strong but a bit sleepy. Drain brammage and oldtimers disease. I like plush cushy suspension, but sharp and versatile turning, which often doesn't go together. My GG makes it happen.
I recently owned a well tuned 01 GG 300 EC. It was a bit hard to kick, and had a bit too agressive power for me. 10 yrs ago I would have loved it. Now I'm in survival mode I guess. I want plush suspension and predictable power. I enjoyed the 300 power more, but am faster/smoother on the 250, although I want a little more power at times.
Did I mention that my kickstart foot/leg is severely damaged and partially non-functional? I could kick start my 300 but it really hurt and was tough to do on sidehills or off camber situations where I couldn't get my body centered and use my weight and leverage. Also the 300 power was fun but not the best way for me to go fast for a long time. I was fast in a sprint on the 300 but slow in a marathon.
It's hard for even me to understand or explain but there is a cutoff point where I have problems starting a bike with a kicker due to my bum leg. I can easily start my 250 but a 300 is not 50cc harder but more like 200cc harder. If that makes sense. At least my 300 was like that, although I don't really know if it was stock or not.
When I was young and tough I was really fast on a KX 500. Now I would still be fast on it if I could start it. Fast for 30 minutes, and if someone else started it on the line for me. If I killed the motor I'd either cry when I restarted it or I'd just have to sit there until a sweep guy came along to start it for me.
Someone needs to make a retro-fit e start system for older big bore 2 strokes.
And all previous said, I am very anal about little things on bikes. Maybe thats why I love my old GG, it really covers alot of little-thing bases for me. Now I'm trying to fine tune it to cover ALL the little bases. I often ride with younger riders who are faster than me if I don't really pay attention to detail and get a bike setup near perfect for me with my old body and injuries. I hate to whine about my problems, but even worse I hate to slow down the group on a fast trail ride, so I am trying to perfect a scoot for myself. Hence all the detailed questions and such.
I had given up on being fast on a 2 stroke until I rode my current GG. I won't go into why, but 4ts help me overcome personal issues. Anyway, I am confident that with a little more work I can be reasonably fast on my 250, and for sure I'm gonna try to make it work. I really don't have that far to go to do so.
Thanks so much for all the help! I have gotten more help and advice on this site than I could have imagined.
wheelie
New member
Agree
With my broke femur on my kickin leg I think I'll be going to e-start sooner than later
Thanks for the offer, and the replies.
Never have cared for the look of the older GG's, but that is irrelevant really. The deciding factors for me really make owning a GG an impossibility for me. No dealers around, no used bikes, no familiarity, all my mods will be lost with the sale of my bike. I ended up buying a 12 150SX, picking up tomorrow, and swapping the bling that will, and stuffing my 200 motor into it, so I will end up with a modern 200 XC with linkage. I am parting out the parts I don't need. This way, I keep all my BPD guards, new wheels, tires, stabilizer mount, etc. I am sure the new GG's are nice, but they are certainly rare as hen's teeth.
Never have cared for the look of the older GG's, but that is irrelevant really. The deciding factors for me really make owning a GG an impossibility for me. No dealers around, no used bikes, no familiarity, all my mods will be lost with the sale of my bike. I ended up buying a 12 150SX, picking up tomorrow, and swapping the bling that will, and stuffing my 200 motor into it, so I will end up with a modern 200 XC with linkage. I am parting out the parts I don't need. This way, I keep all my BPD guards, new wheels, tires, stabilizer mount, etc. I am sure the new GG's are nice, but they are certainly rare as hen's teeth.
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