Jetting and spark plug experts please help

Sounds like your dealer is an asshat! Or maybe he just doesn't really care to support you given the current state of GG. But it's bad business on his part because I am pretty sure he just lost a customer no matter what brand of bike he sells in the future. Maybe some of the guys on here that are on the bottom side of the earth as well can help you contact the proper person for assistance.

We still don't have a very good idea of how your bike is running. Does it big like it's running out of gas? Does it have a hanging idle after a hard pull? How is the power? Is it running hot? Engine make any strange noises?
The air screw for the most part only affects idle and is just to fine tune once you get the jetting proper.

Going to 40:1 will actually cause the bike to be leaner than it is at 50:1. More oil less fuel.

It doesn't sound like the float level is to low. Actually is probably a bit too high.


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memphis2857 said:
We still don't have a very good idea of how your bike is running. Does it big like it's running out of gas? Does it have a hanging idle after a hard pull? How is the power? Is it running hot? Engine make any strange noises?
The air screw for the most part only affects idle and is just to fine tune once you get the jetting proper.

Going to 40:1 will actually cause the bike to be leaner than it is at 50:1. More oil less fuel.

It doesn't sound like the float level is to low. Actually is probably a bit too high.
Click to expand...

-No it doesn't seem bog like its running out of gas.
-And it doesn't have a hanging idle.
-The power is ok but I don't know what I'm comparing it too (its got nothing on my sx or a RM250 I rode in the weekend, its very tame - but that might
be just how enduro bikes are? (I've never ridden one before).
-Not sure how to tell if its running hot but I haven't lost any radiator fluid if that's any indication?
-No overly strange noises, just sounds a bit tinny WOT more like a 125 than a big bore 2 stroke. But again I'm not sure how its suppose to sound.

I guess if I hadn't of checked the plug I wouldn't have been concerned because it seemed to run fine, nice idle, no hesitations, no hanging, bogs or anything. There was that burning smell the first time I rode it hard though? but that may have been because its new?

Is it possible to have a white plug with it running right and all being ok?

Would you guys ride it like this?
 
Its hard to accurately read plugs with todays fuels and oils, and even more so on a new plug. Like I suggested earlier, either get a magnifying glass and look down into the the base of the plug or cut the threads off completely (google fuel ring), OR simply grab a used plug and go for a ride and see if it comes out white and ashy.

Given the way the bike is running it's not showing any really obvious signs of being lean (with exception of a white plug).

An EC300 isn't going to feel like a 250, and even less than a motorcross model. Huge amount of flywheel inertia to overcome due to the 2K3 lighting stator, as well as an engine (port map and CDI map) which is aimed more towards technical riding than peak power.
 
Jakobi said:
OR simply grab a used plug and go for a ride and see if it comes out white and ashy..
Click to expand...

Ok I will do this in the weekend. If it doesn't come out 'white and ashy' would the consensus be that its not lean and therefore safe to ride?

Should I still bother checking the float bowl given that it leaks when on a lean therefore probably too high anyway?

Also does it mater that the air screw is 3 turns out if its idling fine? Or should I try screw in and set it richer?
 
nestz said:
Ok I will do this in the weekend. If it doesn't come out 'white and ashy' would the consensus be that its not lean and therefore safe to ride?

Should I still bother checking the float bowl given that it leaks when on a lean therefore probably too high anyway?

Also does it mater that the air screw is 3 turns out if its idling fine? Or should I try screw in and set it richer?
Click to expand...

You should check the float height regardless of all other factors. If it is leaking fuel on the stand, then it is probably set too high. You will run into problems jetting the bike correctly if the height is not set to spec.
 
Nestz,where in NZ are you? Who is the dealer?(I know a couple of them).
As stated,set the float level as it is too high,turn the air screw out from fully in 1.5-2 turns.Won't change your plug colour but will run better.
How does it run with the choke on when warmed up?
The Dealer- If he sold it he is responsible (NZ consumers guarantee act).Don't want to get too down on the dealer as they are doing it hard at the moment & may just need a 'reminder' about customer service.With the issues you have had regarding the complete rubbish assembly of the stator cover & engine case bolt coming out,I am a very disappointed & surprised.There are certain fixtures that vibrate loose or need checking & all are well documented on this site,but these 2 problems shouldn't happen at all.
 
gg3 said:
Nestz,where in NZ are you? Who is the dealer?(I know a couple of them).
As stated,set the float level as it is too high,turn the air screw out from fully in 1.5-2 turns.Won't change your plug colour but will run better.
How does it run with the choke on when warmed up?
The Dealer- If he sold it he is responsible (NZ consumers guarantee act).Don't want to get too down on the dealer as they are doing it hard at the moment & may just need a 'reminder' about customer service.With the issues you have had regarding the complete rubbish assembly of the stator cover & engine case bolt coming out,I am a very disappointed & surprised.There are certain fixtures that vibrate loose or need checking & all are well documented on this site,but these 2 problems shouldn't happen at all.
Click to expand...

I'm in Auckland. The Dealer is NTB Racing. Its a long story but although I bought the bike brand new, I did not buy it directly from them. I bought it privately brand new a day or 2 after he bought it from NTB (like I say its a long story - but everything was 100% legit and all above board)

So unfortunately I'm not covered by 'NZ consumers guarantee act' because technically I bought it privately.

However this doesn't change GG guaranty that states: "Should the purchaser resell the product within the Warranty Period, the duration and conditions of the present Warranty will remain"

Also what difference does it make - because the original owner would have had all the problems I've got with it.

NTB never made the issue about me not being the original owner, their refusal to help was based on it being sold at a discounted 2014 run-out price with no PDI done. I will also add that the guy I spoke with (Mark) was a good guy and did spend time on the phone with me trying to help, so I was grateful for that.

However I feel GG should stand by their product because when I asked NTB what their PDI would have included, nothing he mentioned would have made any difference to the issues I have.

I've added another photo of the regulator brace snapped (just another thing to add to the list of failures on a 3hr old bike)

I haven't tried the choke on when warm yet - hoping to take it for a short run this weekend to test all these recommendation.

Also can you point me to where I should look on this site for the things to check that vibrate loose and anything else I should check before it falls off or breaks.

Cheers!
 

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The 15 300 that arrived at my local dealers had a case bolt which was loose when it came out of the crate. I noted it as I was looking over the bike. It was down near the counter shaft from memory.

Heres a thread on my 13R, and what I addressed prior to riding it. This bike had a fresh piston at 65hrs and is now up around 115hrs moving towards its next one. http://www.gasgasrider.org/forum/showthread.php?t=16254
 
What is it that makes a 2 stroke spark plug have a tan/brown colour? I notice that 4 stroke plugs appear a lot lighter.

Is the tan/brown appearance on 2 stroke plugs caused from the burning the pre-mix oil?

If that is the reason could my white plug be explained by the fact that my bike is new (running 50:1 in the sand) and hasn't had a chance to build up much oil in the crank? Therefore there hasn't been much oil to burn and affect the colour of the plug.

I'm probably way off but just wondering if that could be a plausible theory?

If it is would it help to increase the pre-mix ratio to 40:1 and go richer on the jets to compensate for the leaner fuel/air?
 
bolts to watch-
kickstart bolt-loctite
sidestand bolt-loctite
alum brace top of airbox under seat bolts-check tight
rear seat bolt-will come loose unless you tighten it 'more than you would expect'
Check all other bolts just in case(applies to any bike)2 strokes vibrate more than 4strokes
Ive run 40:1 with identical jetting on belray h1r,mobil racing2t,and castrol.plug has diff appearance on all 3.for eg.mobil gives a grey plug with residue buildup,h1r a darker clean plug(more spooge though).
the colour varies due to the different flash points and additives of different oils(and possibly different fuels)
I find a plug with some hrs on it is easier to read than a brand new one
(others will disagree)
If you google 'reading a 2 stroke plug' you will find that its not just about the colour
you should be able to tell if your ignition timing close,correct heat range of plug,mixture at idle,mixture wot.
what plug are you running?if the centre electrode has a very fine white ring your ign is close,the hooked electrode should have a heat line part way along it(darker on one side,lighter on other)if its correct temp plug.the base ring which jakobi referred too is a good general to wot mixture indicator,unfortunately its a bitch to read without hacking plugs.the thread end face will tell you idle mix,if its wet sooty its rich,should be almost dry but dark.
However all the above will vary some depending on how you ride right before pulling plug so try and be consistent when you make changes.
If its running nice,id start by trying a diff oil and see how your plug looks,also check it has the right heat range plug.You could also pull the front pipe off and inspect piston crown through exh port for signs of detonation(lean,hot,pre ignition).post a pic if you do this.
 
+1 what Barossi said.

Leaded fuels and castor oils used to colour plugs up more consistently.
Now we have a multitude of fuels and a wide variety of oils.

Here is my plug from last time I pulled it out. Wasn't a chop at a particular throttle position/load but just how it was after many rides.

P1020199_zpsxd8pzqfk.jpg


It demonstrates a few of the things mentioned above in terms of build up on various components of the plug.
 
I just cut the spark plug open that was in my original post - see attached.

This plug was ridden for an hour in the sand dunes mainly WOT, with original jetting.

How does it look? Safe to ride you think?
 

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barossi73 said:
bolts to watch-
kickstart bolt-loctite
sidestand bolt-loctite
alum brace top of airbox under seat bolts-check tight
rear seat bolt-will come loose unless you tighten it 'more than you would expect'
Check all other bolts just in case(applies to any bike)2 strokes vibrate more than 4strokes
Ive run 40:1 with identical jetting on belray h1r,mobil racing2t,and castrol.plug has diff appearance on all 3.for eg.mobil gives a grey plug with residue buildup,h1r a darker clean plug(more spooge though).
the colour varies due to the different flash points and additives of different oils(and possibly different fuels)
I find a plug with some hrs on it is easier to read than a brand new one
(others will disagree)
If you google 'reading a 2 stroke plug' you will find that its not just about the colour
you should be able to tell if your ignition timing close,correct heat range of plug,mixture at idle,mixture wot.
what plug are you running?if the centre electrode has a very fine white ring your ign is close,the hooked electrode should have a heat line part way along it(darker on one side,lighter on other)if its correct temp plug.the base ring which jakobi referred too is a good general to wot mixture indicator,unfortunately its a bitch to read without hacking plugs.the thread end face will tell you idle mix,if its wet sooty its rich,should be almost dry but dark.
However all the above will vary some depending on how you ride right before pulling plug so try and be consistent when you make changes.
If its running nice,id start by trying a diff oil and see how your plug looks,also check it has the right heat range plug.You could also pull the front pipe off and inspect piston crown through exh port for signs of detonation(lean,hot,pre ignition).post a pic if you do this.
Click to expand...

Thanks mate - all very helpful info.
I've attached 2 photos of the second plug that I ran on the new jetting. Is that where you mean to read the timing, idle and heat range? (see my last post for my main jet pic)

How do they look? It was hard to get a good pic of heat range.

Plugs are BR8ES
 

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http://www.crankshaftcoalition.com/wiki/Reading_spark_plugs

Read away.

Looking at your picture you can see quite a noticable difference between the clean ceramic and the coloured up section. Sure yours isn't a tan colour, but you only have limited time on the plug too.

As barossi and I have both suggested, a used plug will give you an immediate indication if the bike is running super hot (lean), otherwise study up on the tell tale signs and symptoms of how an engine behaves when lean and stay aware.
 
Personally I think if your bike was poor as apparently a spark plug shows (fully agree with Jacoki, you MUST use a spark plug used for testing as it will go round and round and come to no conclusion) you would have a huge hole in the piston accelerating an hour at WOT!

Place a spark plug used and repeat the test.
 
Heat range looks ok,ignition ok,deep ring ok(to me!).More time on your next plug will tell you more.If youre worried and wot in sand a lot(heavy load,bike runs hotter) bump your main jet up 1 size as suggested above for piece of mind.main jet will only affect 3/4 to full and theyre cheap
A used plug will reflect the ride-puttering around will usually give a sootier,wetter look
Caning the tits off it will usually give a lighter,drier,hotter look
A new plug hasnt accumulated enough evidence to be conclusive but is a good start point.
If youre mechanically sympathetic avoid extended periods of max rpm,by that i dont mean not to rev it out to its max,just not to let it hammer away indefinitely at max.If youre not so inclined,try to be while your plug is colouring up!
 
Thanks Jakobi, barossi and selvagem. I was planning on trying the used spark plug this weekend but unfortunately came down with the flu.

Hopefully will try next weekend and report back.

I noticed that once I changed to the 180 main on my last ride it had a few flat bog spots when trying to rev it right out. This didn't happen with the 175 main so I'm wondering if its to rich on the main now? (I'm disregarding the colour of my spark plug with that assessment)

Instead of going back to the 175 main, I was thinking of keeping the 180 main and making the air/fuel mix leaner by increasing my pre mix to 40:1 (since I mainly ride sand I'm thinking more lubrication could be safer) also thinking of dropping to the #4 clip to help with the increased oil.

Good idea? Or just keep to 50:1 and go back to the 175 main?
 
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