Marzocchi 48mm Rider Reviews

[Jakobi]

Hey everyone, I've been spending a bit of time delving into suspension and the tuning side of things. Now suspension is a very subjective thing and what one rider likes may be different to another. What one feels another may not.

So regarding the stock valving, what did you think of the fork. What did it do that you liked, and what would you (or did you) address to improve the action.

I know quite a few have had a revalve (or two). It would be great if you could try and describe whats been improved.

 

[nato]

I found mine to be good but on heavy hits I'd blow through the stroke easy and on rocky fast sections it had a bit of a deflection problem. Explained this to shock treatment and away we went happy as larry. Just need a step up on the springs and it's done. I think wence used the same tuner (terry hay)

 

[Jakobi]

Yeah Mark sent his through Terry but ended up with gold valves I believe.

I'm just interesting in hearing opinions and feedback and comparing against mine own.

I found the stock forks quite good in the rocks with very little deflection, but the front felt a bit active or vague where it would kind of take its own line rather than feeling sharp and precise. On downhills it would ride down in the stroke and felt a bit mushy.

 

[n_green]

When I test rode the '13 I found the forks to be excellent. Apparently stock springs in it too, unsure of clickers and PFP etc.
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It seemed to sit up nice and high in the stroke, didn't dive under brakes, was sharp and precise at steering. It was a bit soft on big G outs and large drops but thats to be expected with stock springs.

The only area I found it lacking was in the initial compression stages on rocks and square edges at speed (3rd gear and above). It felt to me like the MV was too stiff and taking too long to open causing a harsh spike resulting in a small amount of deflection, nothing to extreme but annoying and I'd definitely try and tune it out if it was mine. The HS rebound from deep in the stroke was slightly quick too.

All my opinion based on a one hour 30k ride so take that for what its worth.

The '14 will never get ridden on the stock springs, will be using the .50's I stole from the Sachs forks off the '11 and putting them in, so no doubt that will throw the rebound damping to hell.

Quick question, based on the manual it looks like I undo the fork cap, then after draining the oil, undo the base valve and lift the cartridge out and the spring sits under the cart?
Will I have to re-bleed to cart to do a spring change? It's my first time inside a CC fork. Go easy

 

[Fred1956]

When I test rode the '13 I found the forks to be excellent. Apparently stock springs in it too, unsure of clickers and PFP etc.
.
It seemed to sit up nice and high in the stroke, didn't dive under brakes, was sharp and precise at steering. It was a bit soft on big G outs and large drops but thats to be expected with stock springs.

The only area I found it lacking was in the initial compression stages on rocks and square edges at speed (3rd gear and above). It felt to me like the MV was too stiff and taking too long to open causing a harsh spike resulting in a small amount of deflection, nothing to extreme but annoying and I'd definitely try and tune it out if it was mine. The HS rebound from deep in the stroke was slightly quick too.

All my opinion based on a one hour 30k ride so take that for what its worth.

The '14 will never get ridden on the stock springs, will be using the .50's I stole from the Sachs forks off the '11 and putting them in, so no doubt that will throw the rebound damping to hell.

Quick question, based on the manual it looks like I undo the fork cap, then after draining the oil, undo the base valve and lift the cartridge out and the spring sits under the cart?
Will I have to re-bleed to cart to do a spring change? It's my first time inside a CC fork. Go easy

Not for a simple spring change, The spring IN the cartridge is the PFP spring. Just unbolt the bottom 19mm nut and the top cap 50mm? maybe 49mm? and slide the cartridge out, check length for proper preload, 4 wire clip positions to choose from, add oil back and of to the woods.

 

[n_green]

Not for a simple spring change, The spring IN the cartridge is the PFP spring. Just unbolt the bottom 19mm nut and the top cap 50mm? maybe 49mm? and slide the cartridge out, check length for proper preload, 4 wire clip positions to choose from, add oil back and of to the woods.

Thanks for that. Re preload, same for OC forks, around 3mm is best?

 

[Jakobi]

Its a twin chamber fork Nath. Base valve at the top inside the cart. No requirement to open the inner carts for a spring change. Open the outers with normal KYB tool, drain oil and clamp the foot in the vise. Use a 19mm socket to undo the lock nut (50Nm). The whole cart will lift out of the outer including spring.

To adjust the spring perch you need to move it down the cart and adjust the position of the circlip.

Appreciate your thoughts Nath and makes sense. These forks have bleed shims on every circuit which I think gave the vague feeling, coupled with some fast rebound. The stock MV also has bleed, 0.65mm float and then hits a wall of shims. 20x.15 (2), around equivalent of 20x.10 (7), clamped on 11x.2 (2) and then float set with a reverse stack.

In my fork I've kept the bleed, dropped the .15's, and built a nice single stage tapered stack consisting of 7 .10 shims, then tightened up the float to 0.4mm

 

[n_green]

Twin chamber. Got it, cause the cartridge is only semi sealed right? Meh I need to get in there and have a look for it to make sense to me, reading pictures and words in books doesn't click with my mind.

Thanks for the info.

 

[Jakobi]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31CJcXjFvTE

This clearer?

The inner chamber is sealed as in it won't leak when you remove it. You should be able to hold it like a shock without a spring and cycle it and have it return, adjust the clickers and see/feel the differences they make.

They aren't fully sealed though as they will self purge excess oil via the top of the cartridge, and the oil from the outer chamber does get mixed, generally when bottoming and forcing oil in past the seal.

Changing the springs won't take much more than a couple minutes.

 

[hamilton]

My thought on the stock settings were the first thrid of travel was too firm and rebound too slow. won't settle into turns and harsh on braking bumps,roots and trail trash. mid travel had a harsh spike would deflect off everything. Then it would blow through final thrid of travel too easy and rebound to quick. Fork seals had alot of stiction. After a revalve from Evan at Solid Performance these forks work awesome. For two hundred bucks you get a complete sevice, revalve for your conditions and if your not happy he will change valving until you are. You can't beat that, if your in this part of the world.

 

[Jakobi]

More great feedback

I've only heard good things about Solid Performance. I've shot a few emails back and forwards with Evan in the past but generally he's a pretty busy bloke!

I personally think a lot of the blowing through the stroke is due to the oil volume and spring rate. I'll be going up a rate on mine I think.

Hamilton, its interesting that you found both the initial movement of the fork too slow/firm in both directions. The stock stacks run a load of bleed on both sides of the midvalve as well as the base valve. Do you think that perhaps the mid stroke harshness and initial firmness may have been caused by the bleed allowing the fork to move too quickly initially and then meeting a steep damping curve? The stacks are very strange in that all of them basically have a load of free bleed and then hit rather firm shims.

 

[hamilton]

More great feedback

I've only heard good things about Solid Performance. I've shot a few emails back and forwards with Evan in the past but generally he's a pretty busy bloke!

I personally think a lot of the blowing through the stroke is due to the oil volume and spring rate. I'll be going up a rate on mine I think.

Hamilton, its interesting that you found both the initial movement of the fork too slow/firm in both directions. The stock stacks run a load of bleed on both sides of the midvalve as well as the base valve. Do you think that perhaps the mid stroke harshness and initial firmness may have been caused by the bleed allowing the fork to move too quickly initially and then meeting a steep damping curve? The stacks are very strange in that all of them basically have a load of free bleed and then hit rather firm shims.

I managed to get a full day of testing/tunning on my 250 with stock suspension. It is nowhere near as harsh initial and mid stroke as the 200 was. Blows through the travel about the same, and it has a nice (clunk) at full extension. Seems the factory settings on the 12 vary alot. I don't know if this will help you any but it's working for me. stock spring rates are perfect for me at 160 lbs without gear. 100 mm rear sag. fork spring preload shimmed for 0mm 5wt oil 320cc oil level, SKF fork seals, mid valve spring replaced with WP spring, shim stacks can't say. We talked about testing different pfp spring rates but I like the stock one at 1 turn in - slow speed rocky, 1.75 in - sand. clickers same for both c-15 r-14
Good luck, Jakobi

 

[Jakobi]

Thanks Hamilton. Not after any perfect settings. Just stimulating thought and conversation on. One big variable I have seen is the length of the PFP spring. When bringing the floating piston up to contact the spring there seems to be varing amounts of distance between the stop on the shaft to the base of the piston. Some have said they have none with the PFP at 0. Some have a few mms, and mine had somewhere around 6-7mm. What this does is really skews the ability to compare PFP position, and we all know how much difference can be felt in half a turn. At a full 7mm difference, mine at full firm would be comparable to someone elses who's runs 0mm play at full soft.

The clunk on rebound indicates a poor bleed and lack of rebound damping.

 

[Simmo737]

Good front end grip, mv spike as pace increases, if you close your eyes and wind it on more it gets better but still harsh but I can't ride like that for long, ls rebound needs to be almost closed up but is nice and progressive, hsr is lacking but I have .48 springs, it has quite a lot of variation with the clickers and pfp.

I was riding in the roughest place I've been for these thoughts.

 

[Simmo737]

Ps the bike was compared to a 2013 Ktm 500exc, it had the forks pushed through the clamps to the second last ring, the gasser was on the top ring, the kato ( agreed by the owner) was frighteningly lacking grip in the rough loose conditions. I had a trashed 6de soft front, he had a 80 percent s12 I had a quick ride on a new bone stock rmx450z and it had very good ( equal or better) front end grip than the gasser ( with a fresh tyre).

 

[Jakobi]

So what does everyone feel is causing the mid spike? Too much mid compression? Thats what I would think if pushing harder makes it handle better but still beats you up. They already run 0.65mm float on the mid, as well as a 12x.1 bleed shim before the stack.

 

[n_green]

My thoughts based on faster open terrain (majority fire/twin trail) very sandy:

I've gone down to .48's on the front. Much betterer. The bike turns on a dime now and has great front end grip.

In sandy conditions these forks are amazing. The whole ride was essentially above half throttle in 3/4/5 gears, most of it sandy twin trail with lots of natural 1m high whoops and erosion drainage jumps. The compression is perfect for this type of terrain, it stayed up in the stroke and allowed the front to float along the sand but was soft enough to allow the front to bite during cornering. The loose rebound actually seemed to be of benefit in these conditions, although the rebound kick from the front and rear on takeoff from the erosion mounds was a bit hair raising at times.
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As Simmo has said the quicker you go the better they get, to a point. Square edges/tree roots at fast 3/4 gear pace will cause significant compression related deflection and will cause you to have a 'moment'

Going downhill on sandy/loose rocky terrain is not fun, the uncontrolled rebound causes the front wheel to simply lock and push, you cant get it to squat down and weight the front wheel with the brakes.

Rebound both LS and HS are a must do on this fork especially with the .48's (and they were way worse with .50's).

Compression needs addressing but I am still unsure where. I need to ride my usual terrain to get a grasp of how they go there.

Also I dont know if its the stiff bars, the stiff (yet plush) compression, or constantly fighting the rebound, but I am getting bad armpump after each ride.

 

[wence]

Probably the stiffness before it breaks friction from the top of the stroke.Tight seal to tube tolerances make the initial movement a bit sticky which can not help with deflection.
Mine have had another complete overhaul and I am yet to test them but significant changes were made.
I'll keep you posted after I ride but just on the stand still test they feel a lot better.
I have one step heavier fork springs in mine which from memory are .44?
Cheers Mark

 

[n_green]

I reckon the PFP is partially responsible too.

I tested it at 2 turns and then 0 turns. The difference was akin to softening the mid valve and it feels as though it could be softer still.

 

[AZRickD]

I had mine re-valved by one of the Beta Enduro Cross mechanics. Less compression and more rebound for this slow guy. He attempted to emulate a KYB stack for his first dig into my boingers.

Even with the PFP fully out (minus 1 turn), I still sensed some mid spike and could see the whole thing getting revalved softer. A few more rides, first.