NEW! GasGas EC250 4-stroke w/Yamaha Engine!

[REVERUP]

I think more exposure for Gas Gas is a good thing and this would only bring more.
The Yamaha motor is a great one and I cant think of a another 250F engine I would rather have in a Gas Gas chassis until the Gas Gas version hits production lines in the near future. As noted this would not be the first time a company has used some other company's power plant in their brands chassis.

I have to disagree with any notion these Yamaha's don't work good in the tight woods, we have one in our garage, well it is a 08 WR, not a YZ. But I feel in some cases I may be faster on it than my Gas Gas 300.
Yamaha's are very good bikes and with a Gas Gas around that motor it would probably be pretty hard to pick another brands 250F that works better in the woods once set up.

I say go for it!
Roscoe

 

[Radbuster]

I'd say no to the WR250F engine.

Why? Because it wouldn't open up the 250F market in the meantime untill they finish an in-house engine. Why? Because then people would buy the Yami because of dealer network, resale value, aftermarket stuff, etc. They should hold on tightly to their cash and not waste their time on this one. Why? Because it distracts them from the real goal: to provide a 4-t version of their present successful offering. The 2-strokes are moving and bringing in the money.

Who are GG's paying, customers and what do they (we) want?
-A bike that excels in the tight, nasty stuff and every component on the bike is carefully chosen and tuned perfectly for exactly this use. Forget the rest. This also plays on the trials bike company line.
-A reliable bike. The company image does not have the goodwill of Honda who could put out 100's of thousands of CRFs that were expensive wrecks in short order. Only their brainwashed followers blinded by love can forgive them. Soichiro Honda would turn in his grave if he found out.

Market strategy: niches left by larger competitors.

Alternative bikes to beat or at least be #2:
Husaberg FE450, next-generation BMW 450X with a frame that works, Husky TE310, Husky WR300 2-t, KTM 400, KTM 250F (can't bother with all the letters).

Fact: for tight woods work a 250F is ok but just barely. A 450F is a burden. Hmmm.. What could there be in the middle? A purpose-built size for this use?

So what is a 4-t version of their present successful offering? A suggestion:
-Present chasis.
-An engine that can also be used in the trials lineup.
-350cc with state of tune for 100 hour top-end service intervals.
-EFI.
-Innovative engine with reduced and centralized rotating mass (yes, the side valve if it can be made to work and that they have put so much work into.
-Rugged, salty, ISDE, ride every day, put-it-away-wet reliability.
-e-start (but plugable as was stated).
-lightweight battery not high-up in the chassis.
-Auto-clutch option from the factory.
-94db exhaust that works well. Let Leo Vince or Akrapovic develop it.
-PRE-PRODUCTION TESTING. Set it up from the start to it's best potential. I'm sick of developing setup for the manufacturers. Someone already got well paid for this job. If they can't do it, find someone who will. And get the message to the suppliers exactly how the parts are to be configured.
-$500 under a WR250F but already set up for racing out of the box.

What bike would you want to bring to your weekend race?

Or a 350 big bore 2-stroke and to hell with it!

 

[SpeedyManiac]

You guys are forgetting one important thing. GasGas is competitive in the WEC and ISDE. Right now for the E1 class all they offer is a 125 two-stroke. They need a good 250F for the E1 class. Yes, a 350 thumper would be absolutely perfect, but class rules dictate they are in dire need of a good 250F. The Yamaha motor may just make this work for fairly cheap.

 

[GMP]

Very good point Steve.

We all have wish lists. The OP was not about this, it was a yes/no question directed to the importers, not multiple choice.

 

[nhrider]

ummm...Price? Still waiting.

 

[MattR]

You guys are forgetting one important thing. GasGas is competitive in the WEC and ISDE. Right now for the E1 class all they offer is a 125 two-stroke. They need a good 250F for the E1 class..

This a very good point. With the competitive, known reliability of the Yamaha 250F engine, GasGas would definitely be near the top. Good visibility for the E1 class. Thanks for the comment.

This thread has sparked a lot of interest. In just 2 days, there has been 44 replies and 851 views. This is a good thing!

So I have been thinking more about this and slowly coming around to what Glenn has been saying from the beginning. A yamaha 250F engine in a GasGas chassis would be pretty cool. Sure it is not perfect like a custom GG-made engine, but in an imperfect world... this would be a pretty darn good package out-of-the-box. If I were to buy a 250F (with Yamaha or GG as my only choice and having same engine), I would buy definitely buy the GG version. The GG chassis works excellent and the Yahama engine would give me confidence that it would not break down in the middle of nowhere.

I really hope that they build it and that is does well! I will definitely put in on my short list of bikes to consider. The best thing is... parts would be easy to get for the Yamaha engine. So whoever buys this short production run, you will be all set for any future parts that may be needed (regardless of GG's plan for their own 250F engine in the future).

 

[Rick]

The next step is to market the bike......

 

[tm_enduro]

I would be surprised if the price was under $8,500, based upon the price of the 2T models, and assuming the 250f costs more to buy than the 2T costs to make.

I would also be surprised if this was a big seller. The wr250 is a good bike and leftover 2008 or 2009 models can be purchased for $5,500, and Ohlins TTX can be purchased for ~$2,200.

 

[GasGasSouthWest]

WOW! Amazing Responses!

Hey guys,
Thanks for all of your responses! You have no idea how much this helps GasGas to make the decision to build them or not. At first I was on the fence because I didn't like the idea of a Japanese motor in a European bike.
To me it's like Mercedes putting Nissan motors in their cars. However after reading all of these great posts along with posts on other websites I've posted on I've come to the conclusion it is a good idea. We are getting a very strong response and the majority is positive. Let me answer some questions:

First of all Yamaha approached GasGas to sell them the engines. Apparently they are overstocked (because of the economy) and offered them a very good deal. There are only 500 engines available so that is the entire production, when they sell out they won't build any more. Glen was correct
in the fact that GasGas has their own 250 engine already but it is not ready for production. They want to test this engine a lot before they release it to
the marketplace.

It will have the following:

ELECTRIC START
5-SPD TRANSMISSION
CARB - NOT Fuel Injected
STREET LEGAL
HYDRAULIC CLUTCH

Since it is a limited production they won't be spending a lot of time or resources to change anything regarding the engine.

The engine case will read "GasGas" and NOT Yamaha, just like the Beta with the KTM motor reads Beta racing.

It definitely will not be cheaper than the Yamaha! It will probably be about
$500 to $750 more than WR250F. Hopefully it will be 7,199 to 7,299 but nothing for sure yet.

Pluses will be: Hydraulic Clutch, GasGas Frame Geometry (Better Handling), 1.6” lower seat height, 21.5” Seat to peg height, better suspension, better brakes.

As far as GasGas being a smaller company I think everyone would agree that is a really good thing at this point in time! Financially they are rock solid!
They just received a huge influx of capital and are poised and ready to grow, unlike the other companies who are cutting back 25 to 50% on their production. I spoke to Jordi (from Spain - Export Manager) at the Indy Expo and he said the U.S. Market is their #1 Target Market for Growth! Australia is #2.
GasGas did about 60 Million in sales in 2008 (approx. 12,000 bikes) and in the U.S. they sold less than 300 and the Trials bikes were the majority at 200.
This is pitiful! This is one of the main reasons I got involved with GasGas. I
bought some used GasGas's and my son and I rode them and I was instantly
hooked! It was love at first ride! So we sold our KTM's and the rest is history. We became a dealer and then Southwest Regional Representatives
for Arizona, Colorado, New Mexico and Utah. We are refocusing our efforts on setting up quality dealers in these 4 states. If anyone knows of a good
family owned dealer or parts/accessories/service shop that is well run, clean
showroom, no chinese quads, please let me know. I'm being very selective on who we choose.

Thanks again for all of your input and keep it coming!

Tom

 

[TooFastTim]

GG should consider a joint venture with TM.

Absolutely not. GG have done this in the past and TM sold Gasser sub-standard motors. Paul Edmondsons comments about them weren't suitable for a family site like this

 

[GMP]

Tom,

Thank you for sharing this info and starting this discussion. Hopefully this will move forward in a positive way. Its also nice to hear that the company is doing well in such tough times.

Just to clarify one point and avoid a lot of confusion though, I assume "Street Legal" means in Europe, not in the USA.

 

[GasGasSouthWest]

Tom,

Thank you for sharing this info and starting this discussion. Hopefully this will move forward in a positive way. Its also nice to hear that the company is doing well in such tough times.

Just to clarify one point and avoid a lot of confusion though, I assume "Street Legal" means in Europe, not in the USA.

Glen,
Actually Dale is working with the EPA and DOT as we speak on the other
2 4-stroke bikes (EC450 and EC515) and we should to be good to go relatively soon. Dale will have to run the EC250 through them for testing when we receive our 1st one but we shouldn't have a problem and Dale has already paid the big bucks for the 4-stroke class so the test fees will be minimal. We are fortunate to live in a rural area in Northern Arizona that doesn't require emission testing yet so I can plate any of the GasGas bikes as long as they have lights, brake light, mirror and a horn on them. My EC300 and EC515 are both street legal!

Tom

 

[MattR]

It will have the following:
...
STREET LEGAL
HYDRAULIC CLUTCH

These will be great additions. I hope this happens.

Thanks!

 

[Ud_luz]

STREET LEGAL
HYDRAULIC CLUTCH

Hmm.... Makes up for a lot.

 

[GMP]

Well thats a pleasant surprise! The TE250 Huskys started selling really well around here once they could be plated without a hassle, as we need a plate for enduros. Now the Yamaha vs. GasGas decision is a whole new game.

 

[cvl05]

I guess if it's only a test mule. Glenn would you purchased your Ducati if it was equipted with a Suzuki vtwin sv1000 engine? I ride a Jap sport bike and love it, however i would buy a Duc if the wife would let me drop $20K on a toy. My point is i like Euro bike because of there engineering superiority over the Asian bikes. This includes the engine, hell i get 10 times the ring wear on a GG or KTM over the Kawi's i used to race in the 90's. I used to rebuild the KX's before i ever raced the first race, i don't have to do this with a Euro bike, that's all i'm saying. Build it good build it right the first time.

 

[GMP]

No one's arm is being twisted to buy one. Yes, the 2-stroke GGs have really good longevity compared to some of the Asian 250 MXes, but I suspect that is some componentry/material selection based on design criteria(power/weight), not neccessarily engineering. Vertex pistons for example. The GG does use a Japaneese Vesrah rod kit and Kokusan ignition.

The Yamaha 250F motor is good, has good longevity with minimal care and is reliable in a woods bike. Its not perfect but what is? There is a lot of history with this motor. I have seen these run for years and no one will convince me otherwise.

I bought my Duc because I wanted a motard style upright naked and always loved the looks. Also, there is not one at every stoplight. If it had a Jap motor I probably still would have bought it, as long as it was still somewhat exclusive.

 

[cvl05]

No one is trying to convince anyone else that the Yamaha is junk. They were 20 years ago but now build a good bike for the most part. The thread was started to get peoples opinion, my opinion differs from yours, neither are wrong, that is still one of the freedoms we enjoy here in the USA, we can disagree and neither is wrong. I personally don't like the YZ/WR 250f, i've riden many of them.I don't like 250f's in general as they don't perform in a way that is suited to my riding style. That being said i'm in favor of selling as many GG bikes as possible no matter what displacement or how many strokes it takes to get the job done, as long as 2t development marches on. We need a dealer network in the states so whatever it takes then let's do it.

 

[cvl05]

Glenn, both Davide Tardozzi and Livio Suppo would vomit in thier breakfast espresso if they heard that comment on a Suzuki power Ducati. lol

 

[Skidad]

GasGas did about 60 Million in sales in 2008 (approx. 12,000 bikes) and in the U.S. they sold less than 300 and the Trials bikes were the majority at 200.
This is pitiful!

Wow, that is shocking for US sales of the EC bikes if this is correct. That means only 100 or so EC bikes were sold which = tough to be a Gas Gas dealer.

500 motors wont go very far world wide but hell why not see how it goes I guess if it will help sales.

Street legal...If this is really true tha't excellent and could sway some buyers.

Hydro clutch...Very nice upgrade also and something the Aussie magazine test said the Yamaha needed (and a 6 speed but hopefully the GG motor will have this when it arrives)

So yeah, bring it on I guess and the sooner the better and hopefully at a reasonable price and QUIET please.