Ride Report and some help desired.

S

shaheeb

New member
Well I was pretty excited to get out on my 2011 200 today. My bike has been sitting for a couple of months, the topend went to eric gorr and the suspension went off to LTR. Fun was about to be had for sure.

So I put in an hour or so of riding. I liked how much faster it felt but overall I am somewhat dissapointed. A few things bother me. The bike makes alot of noise, feels like clutch noise, top end noise, and aluminum skid plate noise. The power is almost violent coming on pipe. Finally,it falls off the pipe very easily, and the low end didnt feel all that great.

During the ride all I could think is why am i struggling so much and I should sell this thing already.

I think I have a poorly adjusted powervalve for one. The spring tension is very stiff. To move the assembly requires a bit of force, the opposite of light tension imo. I thought this would be a good set up but it just comes on the pipe too hard. makes the power very on and off. great if you ride open stuff but unfortunately we dont have any open riding here.

The suspension must still need breaking in, to be honest it didnt feel that great. maybe a few more rides will break it in.

Basically I am struggling on this bike, I want it to be better. Any advice? Heres my setup:

2011 ec200 8 hours max
stock crap michelin tires
Sachs Red fork LTR
Ohlins 888 Rear shock Ltr tuned
12/51 still taller than I want. have a new 52 to try hopefully it will help???
Eric Gorr Topend, ported and head cut strictly for low end!
thinnest base gasket .015
RB Mods Carb from my old 2010 ec300
Jetting: CCK needle, 40 pilot, forgot the main. she runs good jetting wise.
I put vforce reeds in place of the gasgas unit and removed the spacer.
this made the bike a little easier to ride our trails.
 
Jetting has a lot to do with how the power comes on and how much low end you have. More than likely the jetting from a 300 will not work on a 200.
A very fast friend on mine with his 2010 200 runs a 178-175 main, NOZI (KTM) needle, 45 pilot. This didn't work for my 200 because I have the old airstriker carb.
The stock 2k3 stator/flywheel combo is too heavy imo for the 200, and if you get the chance, swapping for the 2k2 really makes the engine more responsive all over.
You could investigate the PV mechanism too see if there's something funny going on to make it heavy but its usually just the preload which is sometimes off from factory.
 
Noobi isn't a noob when it comes to Gas Gas.

Few Questions
Did you send the top end to Gorr to address this issue?
What other jetting combinations if any have you tried?
Have you started the bike with the RHS powervalve cover off to see if its operating properly while running on the stand?

I've got no experience at all when it comes to the 200's or even the 250's but I have played with my 300 more than a teenager plays with themselves. Jetting (needle and clip position in particular) have profound effects on the power and power delivery. I can change my 300 from a real ballsy low to mid grunter that signs off up top to something that feels almost 125 like. The engines like to run a bit richer to produce smooth torquey power and I have noticed the CCK has a long straight diameter so depending on what clip you run it on it could be running a bit lean right up to 1/4 throttle. I'd definately try a few other needles to compare. What jetting did Gorr recommend with this new work??
 
One thing, you said you dont like the hit but removed the spacer. Removing the spacer does exactly that...makes it hit harder. I would suggest putting the spacer back in place with the vforce reeds. Also that gearing seams really really low, would make the power come on hard...and you want it even lower with a 52 tooth??? seams like that would make your issues worse..but im not as familiar with the 200. Also try playing with the powervalve adjustment, that will make a big difference.
 
Why did you send it to Eric Gorr? Did you ride it stock for any time? Now that it has been ported I think you are in uncharted territory. A simple head mod by RBD would have been a lot of bang per buck. Those here that have set them up like this have been quite happy.

Don't ever pull on the PV rod and manually move the governer. Balls can be dislodged and the PV will not return fully closed.
 
gasgasman said:
You probably made too many changes at once.:(
Click to expand...

Touche

Its like you've tuned it for more but are asking for less? A 200 by nature will be more of a revver than the 300 counter part. By porting, removing the reed block spacer, tightening the squish down, removing base gaskets, etc you have been adding more snap/hit to the delivery. Some probably at the expense of the top end, which is why you may have found yourself with a relatively narrow power band, which will be exaberated by running the short gear ratio.

All you really needed was a powervalve cover, tighten squish to 1.4-1.8mm, time the ports with the top of the piston at BDC, jet it up and ride the pants off it.
 
It seems that you have kind of answered your own questions to a point. I have a 200 and have made a few small changes to smooth it out and make it more rideable for my son. IMO the 2k2 without any flywheel weight is a bit tricky on hills and in the tight stuff because if you don't stay on the pipe and lift for a split second you have to use a lot of clutch to get back in the power. An A rider who is a master at clutch control would like the quick revving 2k2 but I did the following to smooth things out and make it better in the tight single track. I have the 2k2 ignition with a small diameter 12oz. flywheel weight that replaces the crankshaft nut. It really evened out the power on my 200. When I bought my bike it had 12:53 gearing and I'm using 13:50 now and the bike really is smooth and rideable in the tight stuff. I think doing the head mod would improve it to the perfect set up for a 200 so when my son gets to be a better rider and starts asking for more power that will be the next step.
 
1 thing I noticed is....a bigger carb is going to take away your low end and put it all on top....you had it ported for low end and put a carb for top end on it....hmmmm

suspension is goig to take some geting use to and breaking in...i always start all the way soft until it really start moving freely then start stiffening it....
 
Yeah, but who knows how the cylinder has been hacked? Shame, should have tuned it around stock first.
 
Jakobi said:
Noobi isn't a noob when it comes to Gas Gas.

Few Questions
Did you send the top end to Gorr to address this issue?
What other jetting combinations if any have you tried?
Have you started the bike with the RHS powervalve cover off to see if its operating properly while running on the stand?
What jetting did Gorr recommend with this new work??
Click to expand...

Noobi, I sent the top end because I wanted more low end out of the machine, its being compared to a ktm 200 that had head and port work with excellent results. I can remember trying the JD needles, red and blue. I am not sure if I saw my 200's powervalve working, but thats easy to see. Eric Gorr said the work done shouldnt change the jetting much if at all.

I do have the powervalve cover installed which helped a little bit. According to RB, the carb can be made to be whatever I want at this point, so it must be on the lean side. I may be wrong but I was thinking with the 52 it would help me get rid of the bog and the way the bike falls off the power so easy.

The trails I like to ride are the slower, off cambers into hill climb varieties so I am trying to get the bike to work in this area. right now it is killer if the trails are open. I think our trails are like the east coast.

I think I will take a look at the jetting this afternoon. cheers!
 
Well a smaller diameter flows the fuel/air mixture at a higher velocity, but less fuel....that gives you the low end....you cannot jet velocity in....

if it was me i would go back to the stock carb and jet it....
 
I had Eric port a 2000 KTM 200. I wanted a longer power curve, with more everywhere. It was great, once I got it tuned, but it took some trial & error. It did change the jetting some, + it ran a ton better on a race gas mix.
 
Jetting is awesome when spot on.

I opened up the carb and found my settings:

DDK #4
42 pilot
172 main
#6 slide.

Interesting comment about the carb. On The RB Carb, does the divider plate create more surface area mimicking a smaller carb? And then the boring makes it good for the top end range? This is what I thought allowed me to use it in the smaller 200.

I think I could go richer on all settings except the clip position. How does this sound?

ddk #4
45
175
start a/s at 1 turn.

I'd like to give the original carb a try also. Would you try that first before I try to tune the RB modded one?

Cheers!
 
Give it a go and see how it affects the bike. IMO the needle itself has the most pronounced effect on power delivery.

Did you ever run with the stock N1EF? I would recommend using a NEDH#3 if you are looking to smooth the power delivery out and remove the mid range hit. If you want some nice snappy power try a N3EH. These newer models tend to like the 2 and 3 taper needles.

What does the bike run like before the snap in the mid range? Does it run clean but weak, or is it burbling a bit and then snapping to life once it clears up?
 
The bike runs clean but weak before the snap in the midrange.

I have a few extra needles I could try: NEDJ An nw3h kawi needle or is it n3wh??, jd red and blue cek ccl ddl ddk NOZI the stock needle whatever that was, n8rh, and a ddk. my friend has a nedw and the nedh he said i could try.

I just checked the powervalve. with the cover off I can tell that it starts to open up from its stop at about 1/8 to 1/4 throttle, then if wicked up quickly at the throttle it is fully open and holding for a moment before it rests in its stop again. Next I rode it with the governer triangle thing disconnected and also connected. There was not very much difference. Unconnected the bike feels softer, initial pull from the motor off idle is about the same either way. This makes me think it is not my pv that is the issue.
 
Its definately not the PV if its functioning the way you describe. Disconnecting the actuator I'm not sure how it would effect the engine. Would depend if the valve was sitting in the open or closed state as to where you'd lose the power. If it was stuck open or opened under the exhaust pressure it would soften bottom end I guess.

If you can get your hands on the NEDH I'd be giving that a go. The NEDW/NOZI might work for you too if coupled with a larger pilot. I think the J diameter will be too lean for a 200.

Re gear ratios by going taller you will strecth the time you will be able to spend "on the pipe" and "off the pipe" so while it might take a bit longer to rev up into the meat of the power, you'll also be able to spend more time in there without the power being as abrupt. Ie draw out each gear a bit more rather than shuffling the gears up and down.

Sounds like you really should have grabbed a 300 if its bottom end you want though. They have gobs of grunt. I still think you can get this 200 working for you though! :D Keep us posted
 
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