yet another no idle thread.

stainlesscycle

stainlesscycle

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2001 ec300
#7 slide
45 pilot
a/s somewhere between 2 and 2.5 turns out.
175 main
ddk needle on #2
float is adjusted properly


bike runs great pulls hard and relatively smooth.

carb is clean

but:
sounds like it's 4 stroking at 1/8 throttle.
bike will not idle. zips up and down through the rev range pretty clean, but dies instantly when i shut the throttle
idle screw has no effect.
air screw has little to no effect. i can't get it to idle to adjust airscrew. i hold throttle at 1/16 or so, and i turn airscrew till 4 stroking is minimized.

bike used to idle when it was about 30 degrees cooler.... it would at least idle for 20 seconds or so, then die off. now it just dies instantly.

since it's warmer, i've tried 42 pilot and moving needle up and down (it runs slightly better with needle at position 1...but still no idle.) and 172 main. still no idle (and bike wasn't as strong all around...). i don't want to go bigger on the pilot (48), because i think it will 4 stroke more most likely?

so i assume have 2 choices:
different needle
different slide. - now i've tried a leaner slide in the past on my 200, but i didn't like the effect. plus needles are cheaper :)

so, any suggestions as to needles that may solve my dilemma? i'vew plugged lotsa things into jd jetting chart, and it seems ddl might be the solution. slightly leaner to 1/4 throttle..
 
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stainlesscycle said:
2001 ec300
#7 slide
45 pilot
a/s somewhere between 2 and 2.5 turns out.
175 main
ddk needle on #3
float is adjusted properly


bike runs great pulls hard and relatively smooth.

carb is clean

but:
sounds like it's 4 stroking at 1/8 throttle.
bike will not idle. zips up and down through the rev range pretty clean, but dies instantly when i shit the throttle
idle screw has no affect.
air screw has little to no effect. i can't get it to idle to adjust airscrew. i hold throttle at 1/16 or so, and i turn airscrew till 4 stroking is minimized.

bike used to idle when it was about 30 degrees cooler....
since it's warmer, i've tried 42 pilot and moving needle up (but not down...) and 172 main. still no idle (and bike wasn't as strong all around...). i don't want to go bigger on the pilot (48), because i think it will 4 stroke more most likely?

so i assume have 2 choices:
different needle
different slide. - now i've tried a leaner slide in the past on my 200, but i didn't like the effect.
Click to expand...


my 01 300 is 42p, 7 slide, 172 main (i think.. sorry... dont remember for sure) cck needle on #2 position.. 2 ish turns out also... depending on the day..
we are about 3500', but our "corrected air" depending on the day can be over 5000.. mine idles fine..
 
GMP said:
Slide for sure, then tune the needle.
Click to expand...

last time i tried a leaner slide (on a 200 - went from #5 to #7) - i ended up losing all the grunt. it revved out, and idled pretty well, but had no balls down low. so i'm a little tentative... maybe i didn't go rich enough on the needle... should i just go to #8 slide?? i hate buying slides that end up being useless....
 
jhendr3702 said:
my 01 300 is 42p, 7 slide, 172 main (i think.. sorry... dont remember for sure) cck needle on #2 position.. 2 ish turns out also... depending on the day..
we are about 3500', but our "corrected air" depending on the day can be over 5000.. mine idles fine..
Click to expand...

i plugged your numbers in - you are 20% richer at 1/4 throttle. corrected for elevation... i'm at 1000 feet.

to duplicate you i would need to go 45/175/#3

i've tried that - no idle. the only way to get it to idle is adjusting it at the throttle.

i can adjust/hear the slide hitting the plastic idle screw, so i know it's lifting it......i've turned it all the way out and slowly turned it in hoping to hear it start climbing, but it never does..even bottomed all the way out...
 
stainlesscycle said:
i plugged your numbers in - you are 20% richer at 1/4 throttle. corrected for elevation... i'm at 1000 feet.

to duplicate you i would need to go 45/175/#3

i've tried that - no idle. the only way to get it to idle is adjusting it at the throttle.

i can adjust/hear the slide hitting the plastic idle screw, so i know it's lifting it......
Click to expand...

wow... mine has always had the best idle... sounds like a sewing machine.. hope you get it ..
 
i forgot to mention - 200+ psi compression - .15 base gasket. pings on anything but minimum 50/50 110/93... timing is retarded 1 degree.
 
i tore it all apart again this morning.

slide and carb looks good.
double checked all passages in carb. no blockage in idle/pilot circuit.
double checked float height - it's at 16mm
pulled reeds, looked fine - they are carbon fiber ones if that makes a difference..
airfilter is clean.

to double check a/s circuitry i rode around with a/s at 0 turns. it works. i reset at 1.75 turns out.

investigated how far the slide moves up and down in relation to idle screw. with an unmodified idle screw/spring the idle screw hits the slide at 6 turns out. it should idle at around 2 - 4.5 turns out.

still no idle. i can only get it to idle by adjusting either throttle adjuster. i know by looking at how high the slide is at that point that i'm probably bypassing the pilot circuit completely.

bike pulls smooth and even and as close to perfect as it's been with the settings it has now. pulls front end up easily with no clutch in first 3 gears. no stuttering, no hesitation. instant power at all throttle openings - very strong at 1/8-1/4 throttle where you're just zipping through the woods.
bike starts first kick hot or cold (choke for cold for just a second or 2.. BUT it used to race like crazy if i left the choke on for more than a second. now it doesnt. it just makes throttle response and exhaust note dull...i'm assuming this is a clue.....) i swapped to another choke assembly, but no change.

i had a spare #7 slide with a notch in it. (the one i was running had no notch) - neither slide had any noticeable difference.

so do i get a slide cut to #8 or should i be looking elsewhere? or go to a 40 pilot and see what it does? 40 pilot seems like i would be getting pretty lean... jetting dbase doesn't show anyone with ddk/40/172/#7 - but there are some leaner, but with different needle....
 
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i've been dinking around so much with this carb, it's given me a chance to completely rejet...so i'm really happy with it (no 4 stroking at the bottom, pulls hard,etc. but still no idle.)

172, 42, ddk #2, 1.5 turns out. 80 degrees, 1000ft. #7 slide (notched)
 
Next would be #8 slide, or for a cheaper attempt, a needle with a leaner straight diameter. All indications are your too rich in this area. There is enough 300 jetting data here to make your head spin.
 
GMP said:
Next would be #8 slide, or for a cheaper attempt, a needle with a leaner straight diameter. All indications are your too rich in this area. There is enough 300 jetting data here to make your head spin.
Click to expand...

yep, i could go to 40 pilot, but i think that's masking the issue, and perhaps too lean somewhere?

i don't any other reason it doesn't idle anymore. the temps went way up, and my jetting became rich, so i leaned and it runs great but will not idle. it would idle with my previous settings when the weather was cooler. but the 30 degree temp rise made that jetting useless (and it won't idle with that jetting now..)


i've got a spare slide i'm planning on sending out, hopefully that will solve the problem. if not i don't know where to look.


leaner straight diameter would mean thicker needle. so ddl or ddm. i guess i'll order one or both and see what they do..
 
tried 40 pilot. still no idle. it's basically like the idle screw and the air screw have almost no effect.

this kinda tells me something else is going on. i think i have a spare pwk 38 maybe a carb swap is in order.... if that don't fix it maybe my ignition is weak??? i would doubt that.....

i also ordered new reeds for the hell of it. i know they're gonna go eventually, so i'm just gonna put new ones in.
 
I think one of the previous posters here meant the needle orifice - and that is my thought too. The "nozzle" will oval over time from engine vibes.... Given that the bike is a 2001 - this is probably the problem.

No replacement available from keihin...

RB Designs machines new one and will replace it - but this may only be included in his complete carb mod...

jeff
 
yeah, i was kinda thinking that it might be the issue, since i've went through everything else. i'm going to swap a different carb in and see - then at least i can narrow things down to carb body issue..
 
Have you thrown in a new plug just for kicks? What does it look like right after it dies? I agree it sounds like you are very rich here for some reason.
 
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