Look at the bright side, most bikes don't last long enough to wear out the carb body. (if that's what it turns out to be)
yet another no idle thread.
- Thread starter stainlesscycle
- Start date
Look at the bright side, most bikes don't last long enough to wear out the carb body. (if that's what it turns out to be)
stainlesscycle
Site Sponsor
it isn't carb body. switched carbs and same no idle. it doesn't even putt putt die. when i shut the throttle rpm's just drop straight to zero. this makes me think it's spark related. i've done quite a few changes carburetion wise - and none had any effect at say under 2000 rpm.
even though they are 'identical' carbs, the bike runs better on the first carb...this carb sounds rich all over. kinda dull exhaust note, and almost like it's loading up. not snappy like the other carb with the same jets, float, bowl, slide, needle etc.
i've switched plugs several times. i'm outta fresh plugs now. i gotta get some more. on the ceramic - plugs are dark on one side, and white on the other - not running 'em long enough to get any kind of reading.
i'm starting to think this is maybe an electrical issue. maybe i jumped into the carb too soon - i though the warm weather was the problem - and maybe it's not. maybe the coil is weak, or something going on with the stator. i'm gonna swap them out tomorrow and see what happens..
even though they are 'identical' carbs, the bike runs better on the first carb...this carb sounds rich all over. kinda dull exhaust note, and almost like it's loading up. not snappy like the other carb with the same jets, float, bowl, slide, needle etc.
i've switched plugs several times. i'm outta fresh plugs now. i gotta get some more. on the ceramic - plugs are dark on one side, and white on the other - not running 'em long enough to get any kind of reading.
i'm starting to think this is maybe an electrical issue. maybe i jumped into the carb too soon - i though the warm weather was the problem - and maybe it's not. maybe the coil is weak, or something going on with the stator. i'm gonna swap them out tomorrow and see what happens..
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GMP
Active member
If it starts easy enough, especially when hot, and runs good through the range, I doubt its electrical. Still doesn't hurt to freshen up the coil HV wire connection though.
Do you have any needle with a leaner diameter in your collection? Forget taper structure for this experiment, you just want to see if you can lean that range and allow somewhat of an idle without jacking the slide up with the screw.
Do you have any needle with a leaner diameter in your collection? Forget taper structure for this experiment, you just want to see if you can lean that range and allow somewhat of an idle without jacking the slide up with the screw.
stainlesscycle
Site Sponsor
stainlesscycle
Site Sponsor
reeds were checked - they were not bad - the top reeds were perfect, the lower reeds had some minor deformation, but were still sealing. - i'm replacing them anyway - waiting for them to show up..
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SideshowBob
New member
Just the carb mod.
stainlesscycle
Site Sponsor
ok, so swapped carb back.
now it's 40/172/#7/2.5 turns out/ddk
still runs great at all throttle postions. it's just barely starting to idle....but the idle screw is all the way in.. it's got a pretty big hit at the bottom.. definitely lofts the wheel at anything more than a gentle throttle roll-on
i went back and looked at what the carb for this 300 motor had in when i got it. it was: (i don't know what stock jetting was - this was what was in the bike...) n1ed, 35, and 185 (and if i remember correctly it was quite violent off the bottom..)- i believe n1ed is 2.685 diameter (anyone know the n1ed dimensions???) - it ran fine with that combo, but was rich at the top. . ddk is 2.695 - i can't get n1ed to work in jd jetting chart. so would a 38 pilot compensate for the needle difference? i find it hard to believe that a 38 pilot is needed - it seems lean to me. but it is 80+ degrees here..and 1000' elevation.
it's pretty impossible to get a plug reading for the pilot..
anyone?
now it's 40/172/#7/2.5 turns out/ddk
still runs great at all throttle postions. it's just barely starting to idle....but the idle screw is all the way in.. it's got a pretty big hit at the bottom.. definitely lofts the wheel at anything more than a gentle throttle roll-on
i went back and looked at what the carb for this 300 motor had in when i got it. it was: (i don't know what stock jetting was - this was what was in the bike...) n1ed, 35, and 185 (and if i remember correctly it was quite violent off the bottom..)- i believe n1ed is 2.685 diameter (anyone know the n1ed dimensions???) - it ran fine with that combo, but was rich at the top. . ddk is 2.695 - i can't get n1ed to work in jd jetting chart. so would a 38 pilot compensate for the needle difference? i find it hard to believe that a 38 pilot is needed - it seems lean to me. but it is 80+ degrees here..and 1000' elevation.
it's pretty impossible to get a plug reading for the pilot..
anyone?
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jhendr3702
Silver Level Site Supporter
stainless.. when i got my 01 i am almost 100% sure it had a 38 pilot in it.. will check tonight and let you know if i still have it.. Les told me that was oe jetted in 01...
mrkartoom
New member
Just for comparison my dealer had been jetting his bikes with a 35p on the n1ef needle on clip #2, 178m - #7 slide. It was blubbering down low and onto the needle when I got it home and tested it. Only 1/2-top end seemed on. 60F /300ft when I was testing that combo.
As a comparison here is what Jim Senecal was running in his 2010 XC250 with 38mm ASII carb last year (NETRA HS Champion)
#7 slide
178 main
40 pilot
N1EF needle 1st clip (top)
a/s 1 out
As a comparison here is what Jim Senecal was running in his 2010 XC250 with 38mm ASII carb last year (NETRA HS Champion)
#7 slide
178 main
40 pilot
N1EF needle 1st clip (top)
a/s 1 out
stainlesscycle
Site Sponsor
thanks! this was a 99 ec300. if anyone knows what stock jetting was back then...
- i have all pilots from 35-50.. and all jets from 165-185 - i realy need to get some needles...
- i have all pilots from 35-50.. and all jets from 165-185 - i realy need to get some needles...
GMP
Active member
You can't compensate for a rich needle straight diameter with a leaner pilot. yes, they overlap some but not to the point of making the pilot change an alternative.
The 250s are different and generally easier to jet than 300s.
For years all GGs came jetted with 38 pilots and N1E* series needles(plus a couple extras with the bike), I have a bag of them. I have a good selection of needles, I'll see if there is anything in my collection that may be usefull to you.
Honestly, if I get a 300, the first two things I'll do is send out the head and correct the squish, and line up a leaner slide. If a #7 works so well in a 250 that is easy to jet (it does and is), my feeling is that it is leaning rich in a 300, especially over sea level and/or now that summer is almost here. I went through this same excersise on my '03 250 that came with a #6 for some reason, as well as my KTM300 as I mentioned before.
Stainless I'll get back to you on the needles.
The 250s are different and generally easier to jet than 300s.
For years all GGs came jetted with 38 pilots and N1E* series needles(plus a couple extras with the bike), I have a bag of them. I have a good selection of needles, I'll see if there is anything in my collection that may be usefull to you.
Honestly, if I get a 300, the first two things I'll do is send out the head and correct the squish, and line up a leaner slide. If a #7 works so well in a 250 that is easy to jet (it does and is), my feeling is that it is leaning rich in a 300, especially over sea level and/or now that summer is almost here. I went through this same excersise on my '03 250 that came with a #6 for some reason, as well as my KTM300 as I mentioned before.
Stainless I'll get back to you on the needles.
mrkartoom
New member
You and others have got me tempted about sending my head to RB. I need to keep playing around and see where I get and at least break this thing in, but there is something more finicky about this setup than I have experienced . . . discounting the BST on my LC4 of course. How much are slides anyway?
stainlesscycle
Site Sponsor
bst's are impossible. i switch to fcr and have better luck.
slides are around $55.. rb cuts them for $15 + shipping.
GMP
Active member
Its a known fact that GGs like most 2-strokes have loose squish numbers by design to account for questionable fuel around the world. Husky and KTM are no different, have done RBD head mods on them too for my brother and friends. Add this to the fact that bigger 2-strokes are always harder to jet. I just factor all this into the cost of the bike and get it done, then go ride. Just like suspension. You could go all the way and get the carb modded (including a slide cut) as well, very good reviews on that. I'd try the slide first though. I'm sure you could find a used #6 or #7 cheap and have it cut, keeping your original.
GMP
Active member
Stainless,
I have a few needles with leaner straight sections for you to try:
N1EG - one leaner (2.71mm straight dia) than the N1EF
JD Red - from the generic PWK 38 AS kit. 2.72mm straight dia. This is a bit lean in the 250, may work good in the 300.
1369MS - 2.70mm straight dia. This is very much like a CCK with another shallow taper cut after the straight section. Straight dia is the same as a DDK so it probably won't help but you wanted to try a CCK regardless. This was the OEM needle in older Honda CR250s before they went to the Mikuni carb.
Try them. If they do not work send them back. You may keep what works, just please replace the 1369MS if you like it as its my only one and if I get a 300 it will be on the list to test.
I have your address.
I have a few needles with leaner straight sections for you to try:
N1EG - one leaner (2.71mm straight dia) than the N1EF
JD Red - from the generic PWK 38 AS kit. 2.72mm straight dia. This is a bit lean in the 250, may work good in the 300.
1369MS - 2.70mm straight dia. This is very much like a CCK with another shallow taper cut after the straight section. Straight dia is the same as a DDK so it probably won't help but you wanted to try a CCK regardless. This was the OEM needle in older Honda CR250s before they went to the Mikuni carb.
Try them. If they do not work send them back. You may keep what works, just please replace the 1369MS if you like it as its my only one and if I get a 300 it will be on the list to test.
I have your address.
mrkartoom
New member
I had my KTM dealer price a slide for me from Sudco today. I have a bunch of credit built up there so I'm going to order a #8. With my discount and shipping I'm right at that $55 mark. Not as bad as I thought.
Between the carb mods, exhaust tuning, and many hours of jetting I eventually got the BST on my LC4 near perfect. A lot of guys did scrap it and go with FCR's, but I was bull-headed.
stainlesscycle
Site Sponsor
i have a scrap bst (bad valve body gasket - not available...) in pieces. if you want it i'll send it to you..maybe you can make use of the parts... let me know.I had my KTM dealer price a slide for me from Sudco today. I have a bunch of credit built up there so I'm going to order a #8. With my discount and shipping I'm right at that $55 mark. Not as bad as I thought.
Between the carb mods, exhaust tuning, and many hours of jetting I eventually got the BST on my LC4 near perfect. A lot of guys did scrap it and go with FCR's, but I was bull-headed.
