2018 Starter Fix Thread - Continued.

[SS109]

Least the first 4 items seem straight forward.
How do you remap the CDI? Are dealers the only one who can do it?

Dealer has to do it. Contact your local dealer and see if your bike's CDI has been updated.

Are there any trouble shooting methods to determine if it?s the starter itself? I have done the first 4 and have good voltage everywhere

You can pull the starter and bench test it. It should run smoothly with no unusual noises and no slop on the bearing the shaft rides on. If you're going that far, check that the bearings that support the bendix and the starter spin easily and smoothly.

In my opinion, from all that I have read, I believe the CDI, the starter mechanism bearings, and the starter are the cause of the actual no start problems.

 

[RudolfHucker]

On the side mounted KTM starter motors, they would fail to start the engine when the speed began to drop due to worn bushes or battery charge. There was some kind of sensor in the Cdi that stopped the spark from being produced.

You could override this by quickly pushing and releasing the kill button as the starter was spinning and the engine would immediately fire up. Don't know if this would work on the GGs.

 

[ssaulnier]

Cranks OK but no start

I tried depressing and releasing the kill botton while cranking but still no start.
Then if I kick it starts ok.

Seems to crank fine using electric starter but often no start unless engine is warm.

 

[RudolfHucker]

If you pull the spark plug, are you getting a spark in all scenarios with the starter?

 

[Wypipo]

I tried depressing and releasing the kill botton while cranking but still no start.
Then if I kick it starts ok.

Seems to crank fine using electric starter but often no start unless engine is warm.

How many kicks does it take your bike to start?

 

[ssaulnier]

If I have primed the bike and get a good kick, just one kick generally. But sometimes 3 or 4.

The drill to prime the bike is turn on the fuel, put bike in 2nd gear, rock bike forward and back 4 or 5 times to draw some fuel vapors into the engine. Then put bike in neutral, slowly depress the kick lever down until the piston comes up against compression, very gently depress kicker until piston is just past top dead center, let kicker come back to top and give it a good full stroke.

If engine doesn?t fire in 3 or 4 kicks I reprime.

Once started, I blip the handle bar mounted choke to keep it running and rev it a bit. After 30 seconds or so I start riding slowly, test the brakes and throttle, do a few full lock turns to get my balance, a couple straight line runs to clean out the bike and then go riding.

 

[ssaulnier]

Rudolph, that is a good question. I will pull the plug and see if I have spark with the electric starter. Will report back.

 

[ssaulnier]

One more piece of information. Before I installed additional ground wires from the battery to the coil and from the coil to the starter bracket sometimes it took many kicks to start. And the number of kicks seems to be random. I suspect I was not getting spark and I noticed that the hour meter speedometer display sometimes did not illuminate while kicking.

Note that I did not install the factory recommended 8 AWG wires, but used much smaller 12 AWG since that is what I had available. I think the 12 wire has helped the kick starting but not the electric starting.

 

[RudolfHucker]

You can always add a 2nd run of 12AWG to the starter bracket and go direct from the battery.

 

[SS109]

Yeah, 12 awg is way too small. Double up or fatten it up.

 

[Lurchio]

Hi guys new to the forum and new to GasGas also. I?m having big problems with my electric start. Worst part of the bike to be honest. I love the bike apart from this issue. How can I tell if my bike has had any of the aforementioned updates from dealer recalls? And if it?s had all of these why is it still not working on the button? Thanks.

 

[ssaulnier]

I checked the spark by leaving the original plug in the bike to keep a load on the starter and wiring. I pulled off the spark plug boot and inserted a new B8ES plug.

When I depressed the starter button there was no spark for 2 seconds then some spark for about a half second and then no spark for a couple seconds. I did this 3 times with the same results each time.

So while cranking when the engine is cold there is mostly no spark. The outside air temperature was 80 deg F.

 

[Neil E.]

Sounds like the CDI is being affected by voltage sag while cranking.

 

[ssaulnier]

I wonder if the starter is not turning the engine over fast enough for the generator to deliver sufficient voltage to the CDI to make it spark.

Or is the voltage regulator doing something strange?

My dealer says he never heard of larger diameter cables fixing this and never heard of a kit.

Dealer says that since the ignition is not battery powered he doesn't see how starter cables could effect the spark. Perhaps it has to do with the speed of the cranking being too low to generate spark.

Does anyone have any information I can send him about fixing this problem?

At any rate I got some 8 AWG wire and am going to run some ground wires to the starter and coil along with new wires between the battery Positive and relay and the starter.

 

[Jakobi]

My dealers 2018 demo used to do this. It definitely had nothing to do with cranking speed. It turned over like a rocket and continued to on the button. It simply wouldn't fire.

If he kicked it she'd go right away. Once started it would start on button.

I think he fixed it through cleaning up the ground points, but not certain..

 

[Enduroger]

My dealer says he never heard of larger diameter cables fixing this and never heard of a kit.

Dealer says that since the ignition is not battery powered he doesn't see how starter cables could effect the spark. Perhaps it has to do with the speed of the cranking being too low to generate spark.

Does anyone have any information I can send him about fixing this problem?

At any rate I got some 8 AWG wire and am going to run some ground wires to the starter and coil along with new wires between the battery Positive and relay and the starter.

The updated wires made a big difference on my 18 EC250. And with the bigger battery my starter haven't failed a single time.

If the starter cables can't deliver enough power from the battery the starter will take power from the alternator also which is probably why the ignition coil doesn't get enough power to create a spark.

 

[ssaulnier]

So is there any official fix documentation that I can share with my dealer?

I would like to educate them if there is actually a fix so that he can make future Gasgas riders happy with their bikes.

Every one that rides my bike loves it and wants one. But I always get it started first and warm it up a bit.....

 

[RudolfHucker]

Get your dealer to speak directly to the USA importer. That should have been their 1st port of call.

 

[GasGas]

Get your dealer to speak directly to the USA importer. That should have been their 1st port of call.

The USA importer has no fix either.

 

[Booki]

I called up all the dealers within reasonable driving distance to me - only ONE had any idea what I was talking about.

They got in contact with Gas Gas for me and checked my VIN to see if any of the fix's have been done.

Its going in the next few days to get the following done;

Upgraded/Replacing battery cables
CDI Reflash
Flywheel replacement - Anybody share some light on this?

All free of charge.