2018 Starter Fix Thread - Continued.

[RudolfHucker]

I hadn't heard about the replacement flywheel but the battery is normally updated to a 230 CCA Lithium unit.

Certainly in the UK, as soon as the starting issue was identified in the 2018 models, the importer contacted all owners and offered the upgrade pack FOC. The changes then went directly into the production line.

 

[SS109]

Hmm, same for me on the flywheel. Never heard this before. Interesting.

As for the dealers and importers, I would be shocked if GGNA hadn't notified all US dealers about this issue and the suggested fixes. Can any dealers on here confirm?

 

[fred99999au]

After extensive red herrings, running new cables, buying new batteries, standing on one leg while pointing to magnetic north etc, I finally have had enough of this.

Started by pulling the starter motor out and testing in free air. Seemed fine, but looking in the hole where the motor goes, the bearing had a damaged shield.

Pulled the bendix cover off and the gears seems to have quite a bit of stiffness and notchiness to them when moved by hand which was unexpected. This was with the bendix removed.

Removed the ignition cover and removed the helical gear that is directly driven by the starter motor. I ground down a cage nut as used in 19 inch rack cabinets so that I could get it in under the helical gear, then used a long screw and some washers to remove it.

Bit of heat on the case from the MAPP torch and removed that gear and bearing, Bearing was the one with the damaged shield. Famous XAJ Brand made from the finest chinesium. Very notchy under load. Size 6902Z.

Made a tool out of aluminium to get under the pinion on the starter axle as the bearing in the back of that was notchy as well. Apply some heat and a slide hammer and it came out too. Bearing has a screw behind it and it is screwed into the axle with a m5 Torx screw.

Probably the only way to remove the bearing from the housing. Bought a bearing separator to remove the helical gear on the end that meshes with the motor helical gear, and starter axle as one unit. Bearing also crook. Size 608ZC4. This one was branded ISB-EMS which appear to be an Italian made low noise Electrical Motor Standard bearing presumably in a C4 clearance.

I replaced both with equivalent units from the local bearing shop, except they didnt stock the C4, so I went standard in FAG bearings.

I also noticed that the axle shaft pinion was a little bit munted from the factory, as in some of the teeth were damaged.

Reassembled the lot by heating the case and freezing the bearings and discovered that the bendix cover did not mate correctly while allowing the axle shaft to rotate. So either the ISB-EMS 608ZC4 is not the same size as a 608Z or something is amiss.

Axle shaft all tight with the helical gear, so I got a mate to measure and calculate and it all seemed OK. I could get the cover on, but it would bind the axle shaft. Some slight re-enginerding later on the bendix cover and it all moves freely now.

Put it all back together and it winds over like a champ. Never experienced it like this before.

Put some petrol in it and it starts easy now.

I guess in 20/20 hindsight if I saw this again, I'd be pulling the starter motor out and seeing how free and smooth the mechanism is inside the bendix cover. Should be able to turn it by had as there is no need for resistance in transferring starter motor torque to the bendix assembly.

I am tempted to put the original battery in it and see if it starts with that.

This is not a guaranteed fix, but a recounting of my experience. Hope this helps someone.

 

[Booki]

Hey Fred,

Where abouts are you from?

On another forum I am posting on somebody mention something that sounds like 100% your issue.

There is an issue with the bendix cover on the 18 models, some were cast with a fault which causes it to misalign with the gearing and will lock up the starter. resulting in some horrible noises.

Here is a link to the post in more details;

http://www.dirtbikeworld.net/forum/showpost.php?p=2051989&postcount=74

 

[fred99999au]

Thanks Booki. Will have a read of the whole thread shortly, but I did get another '18 bendix cover before I modified the original and they look identical.

I also just put the original battery in and it starts the bike flawlessly as well after it has been running for a few minutes.

Obviously I cant cold test it because it isnt.

 

[Wypipo]

Hey Fred,

Where abouts are you from?

On another forum I am posting on somebody mention something that sounds like 100% your issue.

There is an issue with the bendix cover on the 18 models, some were cast with a fault which causes it to misalign with the gearing and will lock up the starter. resulting in some horrible noises.

Here is a link to the post in more details;

http://www.dirtbikeworld.net/forum/showpost.php?p=2051989&postcount=74

What is this about the flywheel? I have never heard it mentioned before and did not see it on any tech bulletins. So the bendix cover should be replaced with one from a 2019? Looking at parts diagrams, the 18 and 19 bendix cover have the same part number. If this is the case how would you know you’re getting one that’s been made properly?

 

[Booki]

What is this about the flywheel? I have never heard it mentioned before and did not see it on any tech bulletins. So the bendix cover should be replaced with one from a 2019? Looking at parts diagrams, the 18 and 19 bendix cover have the same part number. If this is the case how would you know you?re getting one that?s been made properly?

I will find out this week I guess.

I was a bit surprised about the flywheel too - apparently the starter motor doesn't grab the flywheel correctly, so it needs to be replaced - at least on my bike, that's what's listed on the VIN anyway

 

[RudolfHucker]

Could it be a reference to an uprated stator to provide extra power to charge the uprated battery? I have read somewhere about a stator replacement recall on the 2018s.

 

[Wypipo]

Could it be a reference to an uprated stator to provide extra power to charge the uprated battery? I have read somewhere about a stator replacement recall on the 2018s.

I haven?t heard anything about this either. Good lord when will it end. The problems seem to just keep piling up. I would love to buy another gasgas after this bike because it?s great everywhere else but unless they make serious improvements with these issues and how they address them I won?t be buying another one. All these problems and their only way to address it is to give you 30 cents worth of copper wire and tell you good luck, and now dealers are telling customers they aren?t aware of starting issues on the 18s... WHAT

 

[Wypipo]

I will find out this week I guess.

I was a bit surprised about the flywheel too - apparently the starter motor doesn't grab the flywheel correctly, so it needs to be replaced - at least on my bike, that's what's listed on the VIN anyway

How did you find out what issues are specifically related to your VIN ?

 

[Jakobi]

I haven?t heard anything about this either. Good lord when will it end. The problems seem to just keep piling up. I would love to buy another gasgas after this bike because it?s great everywhere else but unless they make serious improvements with these issues and how they address them I won?t be buying another one. All these problems and their only way to address it is to give you 30 cents worth of copper wire and tell you good luck, and now dealers are telling customers they aren?t aware of starting issues on the 18s... WHAT

Some dealers might not be aware.. Some might be.. or maybe it was just the person on the phone answering questions wasn't aware. Aussie customer service can be a bit.. errr.. lacklustre at times.

It was a whole new bike for 2018. It was sure to happen that something would give niggles.. issues.. however you see it. It shouldn't happen, but it does. It appears that there are a couple of different issues surrounding the starter which is continuing to cause concern.

BUT!! The whole bolt on e-start is a poor design.. it has always been. It always will be. It's a bandaid solution to a market demand.. I'm sure at some point GG will release an engine with the starter in the cases, as they other manufacturers have also done.

In the mean time, be frustrated. Work with your dealers. If you can't come to a solution you can take it higher.. or ditch the e-start. Jump brands if it's a deal breaker by all means.

When mine gives up the ghost I'll be throwing an old plastic stator cover on, and running simple street!

 

[stabak]

When mine gives up the ghost I'll be throwing an old plastic stator cover on, and running simple street!

... and lose 3.5kg according to this

 

[Booki]

Could it be a reference to an uprated stator to provide extra power to charge the uprated battery? I have read somewhere about a stator replacement recall on the 2018s.

The dealer told me it was something to do with the flywheel getting machined, and also mentioned the stator - I will get the full run down when I get the bike back - just dropped it off today.

How did you find out what issues are specifically related to your VIN ?

I called up pretty much every dealer on my area and only ONE bothered to check my vin with Gas Gas.
Gas Gas got back to them and said it needed a flywheel, battery cables + stator cables and CDI reflash.

Some dealers might not be aware.. Some might be.. or maybe it was just the person on the phone answering questions wasn't aware. Aussie customer service can be a bit.. errr.. lacklustre at times.

Not wrong about the customer service....

Having the starter motor while doesn't look great where it is, as long as it works I am not too fussed. End of the day people have paid in excess of 13-14k for these bikes and for buyers to just "accept" the fact that shit doesn't work out of the box is unacceptable in my books, regardless of brand.

But seems as consumers majority just put up with it - My previous bike, a Yamaha WR250F had jetting issues right out of the box, I could never get the thing 100% spot on.

Thankfully the jetting seems quite good on on my Gas Gas, maybe the previous owner/dealer rejetted it.

Another issue is when using the kick starter it gets belted on my footpeg - resulting in a large chunk on my kick starter....its only gotten worse since my ownership too!!

 

[Jakobi]

The dealer told me it was something to do with the flywheel getting machined, and also mentioned the stator - I will get the full run down when I get the bike back - just dropped it off today.




I called up pretty much every dealer on my area and only ONE bothered to check my vin with Gas Gas.
Gas Gas got back to them and said it needed a flywheel, battery cables + stator cables and CDI reflash.



Not wrong about the customer service....

Having the starter motor while doesn't look great where it is, as long as it works I am not too fussed. End of the day people have paid in excess of 13-14k for these bikes and for buyers to just "accept" the fact that shit doesn't work out of the box is unacceptable in my books, regardless of brand.

But seems as consumers majority just put up with it - My previous bike, a Yamaha WR250F had jetting issues right out of the box, I could never get the thing 100% spot on.

Thankfully the jetting seems quite good on on my Gas Gas, maybe the previous owner/dealer rejetted it.

Another issue is when using the kick starter it gets belted on my footpeg - resulting in a large chunk on my kick starter....its only gotten worse since my ownership too!!

If you know anyone who paid 13-14K for one of these out of the box then the jokes on them!

Seriously though. It would be great if they worked seamlessly, but the whole starter/bendix after thought hasn't worked well.. Not for another brand either.. Issues with it are expected, and expensive. My last 2 GG's were kick only, so I have no issues kicking and bumping. I'll admit I like the button... but for me it's not a deal breaker.. I'll either pay the upkeep on it.. or I'll ditch it. I'll decide when I'm faced with the issue.

I had a WR250F many years ago.. it had a bit of a lean bog when cold OEM. It could be tuned out.. but took some tinkering.

Point being, nothing is perfect out of the box. Other brands have their own issues too. In a perfect world..

In saying that, the build quality on the 2018 GG is a big jump from where they used to be.

 

[Booki]

From memory I got quoted about 12ish for a new one + on roads. So ends up being between 13-14k on the road id say (least here in Vic).

Nothing is perfect out of the box, thats true.

Heres hoping my baby will start from the button though, otherwise I won't have a kick starter left with the gouges that come from kicking it!

 

[Jakobi]

From memory I got quoted about 12ish for a new one + on roads. So ends up being between 13-14k on the road id say (least here in Vic).

Nothing is perfect out of the box, thats true.

Heres hoping my baby will start from the button though, otherwise I won't have a kick starter left with the gouges that come from kicking it!

True that! I hope you get it sorted mate.

At least even if you have to throw dollars at the starter yourself in the long run .. you can look on the bright side that your suspension is working out of the box

 

[ssaulnier]

Good point about the suspension. That puts things in perspective. The starter issues are annoying, but the rest of the bike is fantastic.

On my KTMs I was always messing about with the suspension.

On this new Gasser I just ride and smile

 

[ssaulnier]

Ok so I replaced the stock battery cables with 8 AWG battery cable, ran an 8 AWG ground cable from the battery negative post to the starter housing bolt. Then ran the old starter wire from the starter housing ground to the coil ground bolt. Left the stock ground wire attached between the aluminum subframe and battery negative post.

Charged the 150 CCA lithium WPS feather weight battery to 13.4 VDC.

I didn?t notice any change in starter behavior on cold start. Still cranks fine but doesn?t want to fire up. One kick and she started right up. Was about 35 deg F so had to blip the choke lever for about a minute so she didn?t stall out. Shut her off then the electric starter fired her right up.

I am not going to mess with the starter any more. Just going kick start when cold and use electric starter as a restarter. Only have 8 hours run time. Maybe things will seat in and work better as others have observed.

 

[Booki]

Have you done the CDI reflash?
Have you had the flywheel change as well?

My dealer told me that the flywheel + Cdi need to be done together.


My bike has just been done, will be picking it up tomorrow and posting the results.

 

[ssaulnier]

My dealer reflashed the CDI before I picked up the bike. He didn?t say anything about a flywheel replacement so I don?t know. But I suspect no new flywheel.

As I understand it, the CDI reflash updates you to the latest version firmware with more linear performance in muddy conditions and improved all around performance. I can?t complain. My bike is tractable and easy to ride unless you whack the throttle open and hold it there for a few seconds!

I think the flywheel replacement is for only for ones that were not machined properly. I don?t really know anything about that. Maybe just a couple batches of bikes?