Another jetting issue(imagine that)

[bowhunter007]

that is what i have always been told on clip position... start in the middle..

i have also learned on my 01 anyway, it is easier to pull the fuel tank and take the carb out up thru the frame..

this table on clip position always made sense to me

Thank you!

 

[jhendr3702]

you bet.. glad to help...

 

[Rick]

Make sure that the plastic retainer that goes on the end of the throttle cable after the spring is seated in the slot on the needle "bolt" the little 6mm screw that sucures the needle into the slide. I have seen those not seated properly and will throw you way off track... thinking the jetting is not correct.

Just my.02

Jay,,,nice chart you posted.

Thanks

 

[Jakobi]

Make sure that the plastic retainer that goes on the end of the throttle cable after the spring is seated in the slot on the needle "bolt" the little 6mm screw that sucures the needle into the slide. I have seen those not seated properly and will throw you way off track... thinking the jetting is not correct.

Just my.02

Jay,,,nice chart you posted.

Thanks

Shit hot advice! Best case scenario is that it'll be difficult to jet. Worst case it'll pull the cable out of the slide at the most inappropriate time! Give the spring a little twist left and then right as it drops down under its own force. If its not already in the groove you'll see/hear/feel the definite click as it locates.

 

[bowhunter007]

the "bolt" the little 6mm screw that sucures the needle into the slide.

Ahhhhhh! it is a tiny bolt. I stared at it, fiddled with it, and nearly had a go with a large hammer. I don't believe I was born in the deep end of the gene pool, when small delicate hands are required to work on things like carbs The jetting, as I found it, in my new Gasser carb...
175 main jet
35 pilot jet
#8 slide

The needle is unconfirmed, since I was unsuccessful figuring it out, on my own. Either way, I still need the #7 slide from the Kawi. I just figured out what I thought was a lowly owner's manual, is in fact a service manual. It's full of all kinds of information. I guess I should have flipped through, anyway. Hand written notes, include:
180 main
35 pilot
N1EF #2 clip from top
#7 slide
On the next page, handwritten:
180 main
35 pilot
N1EG top clip
#6 valve cut slide
To me these only mean that more than person, or same person were making carb magic...I don't know. I barely understand the corralation between these parts. At least I know this much, so far. Now I have to figure out the needle question.

 

[Jakobi]

The needle will have the code etched into it just below the clips. They can be a little hard to read at times.

 

[jhendr3702]

The needle will have the code etched into it just below the clips. They can be a little hard to read at times.

yes they are.. i usually have to get a magnifiing glass to read them.. (insert old eyes here...)
my 01 came factory with a 35 pilot .. i had never seen a pilot that small....
mine had a n1ee in it..factory



rick.. thanks.. i love that chart..

 

[bowhunter007]

Is there some sort of magic trick to removing the needle, from the slide? I am missing something, don't know what. I would rather not break anything

 

[Jakobi]

Stolen from an earlier post on DBW today!

You need to use one hand to bind up the spring and plastic retainer towards the top of the throttle cable. Then push in slightly and the cable will come out of the locating groove in the 6mm retainer.

Once you have the slide out you need a 6mm socket to undo the retainer in the top of the slide. Tip it upside down and the needle and clip slide out as one. To remove the clip I like to put the needle on a clean solid surface and gentle push each side of the clip unti it starts to pop off. Be careful not to launch it into the abyss!

Putting it back together is the opposite. Take care not to over tighten the 6mm retainer in the slide. Bind the spring up and make sure the cable slides in and mounts properly into the slide. Then when you let the spring back down make sure the little lug in the plastic part locates into the groove in the 6mm retainer. Test the throttle action before taking off for a test ride!

 

[bowhunter007]

Stolen from an earlier post on DBW today!

You need to use one hand to bind up the spring and plastic retainer towards the top of the throttle cable. Then push in slightly and the cable will come out of the locating groove in the 6mm retainer.

Once you have the slide out you need a 6mm socket to undo the retainer in the top of the slide. Tip it upside down and the needle and clip slide out as one. To remove the clip I like to put the needle on a clean solid surface and gentle push each side of the clip unti it starts to pop off. Be careful not to launch it into the abyss!

Putting it back together is the opposite. Take care not to over tighten the 6mm retainer in the slide. Bind the spring up and make sure the cable slides in and mounts properly into the slide. Then when you let the spring back down make sure the little lug in the plastic part locates into the groove in the 6mm retainer. Test the throttle action before taking off for a test ride!

Outstanding! 2am comes quick, so the carb is again a "tomorrow" deal. Thanks all, for the much needed help.

 

[GMP]

Another note: The needle retainer is a cheap soft alloy that sometimes seizes in the slide, especially on an older bike and/or if any moisture made its way in the top through the cable ferrule. Get a SIX POINT 6mm socket, or you will lilely strip it. If its too tight to remove holding it, wrap it in a rag and slide it loosely between the jaws of a vise to hold it. Antiseize this on replacement.

 

[bowhunter007]

Ok, I got the needles out of both carbs before work this morning. The only stamp on the current needle being used, CCK. The needle from the Kawi, is stamped N0ZE(O or zero, you might know, I don't). The CCK needle is heftier, by far. The Kawi needle almost appears dainty, setting side by side, next to the CCK. The slide from the Kawi is a notched #7. Which needle should I use?
BTW, nurses don't seem to appreciate me carrying in 'cycle parts & playing with them in the room

Note: The hospital isn't where I work

 

[Jakobi]

THE NOZE is very similar to the stock N1EF.

NOZ = half clip leaner than N1E (same taper profile).
E = one step richer on diameter than the F.

You may find the NOZ a better fit than the CCK considering the CCK in clip #3 was exhibiting some lean symptoms. From here its all trial and error though. GMP gave you some good advice last page re expected sizes and possible needles for starting points.

 

[roostafish]

Bowhunter, we should schedule a ride and I'll bring my jetting computer with us. He is my brother in law and is a magician with jetting.

 

[bowhunter007]

THE NOZE is very similar to the stock N1EF.

NOZ = half clip leaner than N1E (same taper profile).
E = one step richer on diameter than the F.

You may find the NOZ a better fit than the CCK considering the CCK in clip #3 was exhibiting some lean symptoms. From here its all trial and error though. GMP gave you some good advice last page re expected sizes and possible needles for starting points.

Thanks to everyone, who've chimed in with info and/or advice. I've sat and read, stared at carb, read some more You all have drastically shortened my learning curve. Once I'm home, I'll get her set up, and go for a spin. Thank you all.

 

[pscook]

Bowhunter, we should schedule a ride and I'll bring my jetting computer with us. He is my brother in law and is a magician with jetting.

Okay, I'll bite. I can drag Bowhunter along and we can double the duty of your computer. How often and how far do you get up North? Or, is there a good winter riding area midway (Portland, Vancouver, etc) from Tacoma to Eugene? I need some serious help (I think...) with my 300.

 

[Jakobi]

Thanks to everyone, who've chimed in with info and/or advice. I've sat and read, stared at carb, read some more You all have drastically shortened my learning curve. Once I'm home, I'll get her set up, and go for a spin. Thank you all.

Not sure what pilot to run with, but starting with CCK#3 180 main, or NOZE#3 175 main should be very similar from 1/4 throttle up. The NOZE will be a bit richer on the bottom end.

Which ever way you go make sure you start with a baseline and only change one circuit at a time. I like to establish the idle, then move into the clip position, and then the main last. I'd probably lean towards the CCK as the NOZ needles have a really short straight section that makes setting the pilot up a pain in the bunger.

 

[jhendr3702]

Not sure what pilot to run with, but starting with CCK#3 180 main, or NOZE#3 175 main should be very similar from 1/4 throttle up. The NOZE will be a bit richer on the bottom end.

Which ever way you go make sure you start with a baseline and only change one circuit at a time. I like to establish the idle, then move into the clip position, and then the main last. I'd probably lean towards the CCK as the NOZ needles have a really short straight section that makes setting the pilot up a pain in the bunger.

my 250 was a sea level bike.. 45 pilot, 180 main and cek, which is 2 clips leaner i think than a cck... we are close to 4000' here, but corrected air is over 5000.. the bike ran fine here, but was a bit too rich..

 

[GMP]

First get the Kaw PWK cleaned and the floats adjusted. Notched #7 slide will work, but in my recent experience the bike will want a richer pilot than that used for a non-notched slide. Different than what I was told but results don't lie. I'm up to a 48 now and its pretty good. If you want to buy your way out, and get an excellent result, JD is the way to go. If it didn't work so well on the 250s with the older PWK Air Stryker I wouldn't recommend spending the $, but it does. Other than that, look in the database for various 250 solutions for your altitude. Start on the rich side to get there quicker and safer. 180-182 main for the fat tip needles, 178 for the OEMs like the NOZ/NIE series. Note that this IS NOT a newer PWK and much of the jetting info discussed here is irrelevant as its too lean. The NED/NEC series Suzuki needles are an example, I could never get anything to work that did not have that flat, lean feel down low.

FWIW, here are my specs:

'12 GG 250R, PWK Air Stryker I
0 - 1000'
50 - 70 deg

#7 slide (notched)
48 pilot
JD Blue #3
180 main
air screw 1.25 turns

 

[bowhunter007]

I finally made it home. I purchased a 180 main. I used the NOZE needle(clip in the middle). The store was out of pilot jets, so my only choices are 35 or 45. I ran the air/fuel screw 1.5 turns out. which pilot jet...Hmmmm
I'm thinking richer is better. I'm used to carb tuning, from my drag car days. 2-stroke carbs I think are more finicky, but easier to deal with. At least I understand the basics, and have place to start minus deciding on a pilot.