EC300 still down on power
- Thread starter 19brendan81
- Start date
Or gut the oven, toss it in there wide open for 3-4 hours, pull it out, cool off, throw a handfull of bb's and small nuts in there, tape up the ends, then cycle through the kiddies, you can get alot of results if you challenge them to see who can make enough noise to get mum to come out of the house, she won't however, but they don't know that, mum is of course, in the back room steaming badly cause you put an exhaust pipe in the oven.........not that I've ever known anyone that would do that, especially after baking things, like say, BB chevy valve covers with some gorgeous yellow paint in the oven just a few weeks prior............ ;-P
I've never actually removed the silencer and rode down the road lol, i posted that in reference to what socalscott posted about someone doing it and it fixing their bike.
When I got my bike it would smoke like crazy after running it wide open down a road, the pipe had a oilly carbon build up in it from being lugged around for years by the po, after doing this a few times it cleaned itself out and stopped.
I live alone and I wouldnt put a 2 stroke pipe in my oven in the house, its gonna stink and smoke badly lol. Use the bbq/fire pit/burn barrel or a torch in a well vented area.
When I got my bike it would smoke like crazy after running it wide open down a road, the pipe had a oilly carbon build up in it from being lugged around for years by the po, after doing this a few times it cleaned itself out and stopped.
I live alone and I wouldnt put a 2 stroke pipe in my oven in the house, its gonna stink and smoke badly lol. Use the bbq/fire pit/burn barrel or a torch in a well vented area.
19brendan81
New member
No, unfortunately not. I went out to a 182 main jet and its too rich. Was running cooler though, but by chr!st does it drink the fuel now (rode on the weekend just gone and only got 57kms off the tank versus 80kms when I rode it in Feb with the 172 main).
Will drop down to a 178 or 180 but I will tell you now that jetting is not the issue...I have enough experience working on 2 strokes to know that its something else.
I havent looked at the PV with motor running but know that it works fine by hand. I read a thread on this forum from a guy with a gutless 200 who had a plethora of probs from the factory that were causing the power loss. I am inclined to believe its something similiar with my bike.
Next steps will be - ensure PV is actuating when motor is running, confirm static timing is correct, confirm CDI is OK, do leakdown test on motor.
If all of these things come up fine I have literally replaced or ruled out every single part on the motor.
Will drop down to a 178 or 180 but I will tell you now that jetting is not the issue...I have enough experience working on 2 strokes to know that its something else.
I havent looked at the PV with motor running but know that it works fine by hand. I read a thread on this forum from a guy with a gutless 200 who had a plethora of probs from the factory that were causing the power loss. I am inclined to believe its something similiar with my bike.
Next steps will be - ensure PV is actuating when motor is running, confirm static timing is correct, confirm CDI is OK, do leakdown test on motor.
If all of these things come up fine I have literally replaced or ruled out every single part on the motor.
Jakobi
Super Moderator
Post on the previous page re the floats could be onto something. Vent lines to the carb and tank not blocked? I'm just rattling off random things here really. I like your plan as per below. Definitely take the time to check the PV works as it should with the engine running. I'm not sure how you checked with the engine off. Pulling up on the actuator arm can dislodge a ball and cause issues. Best to disconnect the arm and run the pv through its range of motion to ensure its fluid and not binding.
19brendan81
New member
I should add too that on the weekend it was back to its old trick of not idling. The idle screw is now wound all the way in, and it still wont idle. was a pain in the ar$e to ride it like this. Plus its hard to start when hot now...3 or 4 kicks. I assume this stuff is related to it being too rich.
noobi
New member
I wonder if theres a huge amount of carbon build up in the pipe?
Like so much that its changed the shape of the pipe, and some parts keep getting broken off causing changes in behaviour, you said it was idling ok, and now it doesn't. Like Jakobi said a few pages back, winding idle all the way in is a rich condition, and under no circumstances should you have to wind it that far in.
Anyway, with the carbon, you can get an oxy acetylene torch and light the inside of the pipe on fire, and then just run oxygen into the pipe, just leave the oxygen on with the gun pointing into the pipe, you can watch a hot ring burn through the entire length of the pipe as the crap inside burns out. Or cut it open and visually check what its like, along with checking for a catalytic converter.
Like so much that its changed the shape of the pipe, and some parts keep getting broken off causing changes in behaviour, you said it was idling ok, and now it doesn't. Like Jakobi said a few pages back, winding idle all the way in is a rich condition, and under no circumstances should you have to wind it that far in.
Anyway, with the carbon, you can get an oxy acetylene torch and light the inside of the pipe on fire, and then just run oxygen into the pipe, just leave the oxygen on with the gun pointing into the pipe, you can watch a hot ring burn through the entire length of the pipe as the crap inside burns out. Or cut it open and visually check what its like, along with checking for a catalytic converter.
19brendan81
New member
Yeah maybe it is something in there...the exhaust sounds heavy. My main issue is that I dont want to dump $300 or $400 on a new pipe as a gamble and I no longer have access to an oxy.
I am really concerned its just a lemon..reading about other gassers that have come out of the factory as lemons (like the thread on this forum re the blokes 2007 200) makes me even more nervous.
maybes it is a PV issue...thats what I am going to do tonight...open up PV cover and fire her up.
I doubt very much its ignition....when electrics fail they do so intermittently, causing horrible running..back firing etc, or they fail all together. I dont think its possible for a CDI or what not to fail causing smooth free revving motor with hardly any HP.
The other option is that the static timing has retarded heaps or something. (hope im using the right terminology here). Does anyone know how the stator is timed? Is there a mark to line up? will suss it out tonight while im at it.
Brendan
I am really concerned its just a lemon..reading about other gassers that have come out of the factory as lemons (like the thread on this forum re the blokes 2007 200) makes me even more nervous.
maybes it is a PV issue...thats what I am going to do tonight...open up PV cover and fire her up.
I doubt very much its ignition....when electrics fail they do so intermittently, causing horrible running..back firing etc, or they fail all together. I dont think its possible for a CDI or what not to fail causing smooth free revving motor with hardly any HP.
The other option is that the static timing has retarded heaps or something. (hope im using the right terminology here). Does anyone know how the stator is timed? Is there a mark to line up? will suss it out tonight while im at it.
Brendan
noobi
New member
I think radiator shops have acid tanks, or similar, and they might let you chuck the pipe in one and clean it out. Or a motorcycle shop should have a process for cleaning out 2 stroke chambers, or at least point you in the right direction.
I've only heard of 2 cases of that ever happening, and in the way that forums work, only bad cases come to light. So I think it would be worst case scenario that the engine is just a lemon.
Have you checked the CDI by swapping it out? Any modern KTM uses the same Kokusan ignition system, so borrowing one from a KTM will do fine. Have you gone through the electrics and checked all the connections like I suggested a few pages back? I had a free revving engine, but sucked eggs under load and the connection between CDI and igniter was loose.
I believe there is only a small range of adjustment on the stator plate, you adjust it by moving the plate around, if you pull the flywheel off you will see. You could move it a mm clockwise, to advance the ignition, and see if that makes a difference.
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19brendan81
New member
OK...did some work last night and can confirm the following.
Exhaust definitely not blocked. I put a nut in there and it could roll around with ease. Fed a meter of welding wire into it too, which went straight in. Its a standard gas gas nickel pipe with no honeycomb. If theres any carbon build up it is minimal.
The bike did not run out of juice.....theres nearly 3 liters left in it. So the bike stalled for some other reason on the weekend (I may have switched it to 'off' instead or reserve when I flipped the tap over whilst riding). Bike is running rich though, the plug was black and wet when I pulled it out...i may have fouled the plug.
I took some photos of the stator plate...does anyone know if it looks to be timed correctly from these photos? (see attached) The phot is pretty ordinary...let me know if more a more detailed shot of a certain area will help.
Also, I may have sorted the idling issue....I think it has the wrong idle set screw installed. With the carb off, i wound the screw in to see how much I would have to wind it before it contacted and started raising the slide...I had to wind the screw virtually the whole way in before the slide moved, and only with the last 1/4 turn did the slide move at all. Can anyone confirm that the length of the screw is correct by the photos I have attached? the screw is about 32mm long, ( thats 1.25 inches for the metricly challenged )
Lastly...i did a leakdown test on the bottom end. The bike wouldnt hold pressure at all...not a single PSI...and it sounded like it was leaking out at the clutch but was very hard to hear due to working in a tin shed during a hail storm. Will go back in there tonight to do the test again, and make sure its not operator error resulting in the lack of pressure.
Exhaust definitely not blocked. I put a nut in there and it could roll around with ease. Fed a meter of welding wire into it too, which went straight in. Its a standard gas gas nickel pipe with no honeycomb. If theres any carbon build up it is minimal.
The bike did not run out of juice.....theres nearly 3 liters left in it. So the bike stalled for some other reason on the weekend (I may have switched it to 'off' instead or reserve when I flipped the tap over whilst riding). Bike is running rich though, the plug was black and wet when I pulled it out...i may have fouled the plug.
I took some photos of the stator plate...does anyone know if it looks to be timed correctly from these photos? (see attached) The phot is pretty ordinary...let me know if more a more detailed shot of a certain area will help.
Also, I may have sorted the idling issue....I think it has the wrong idle set screw installed. With the carb off, i wound the screw in to see how much I would have to wind it before it contacted and started raising the slide...I had to wind the screw virtually the whole way in before the slide moved, and only with the last 1/4 turn did the slide move at all. Can anyone confirm that the length of the screw is correct by the photos I have attached? the screw is about 32mm long, ( thats 1.25 inches for the metricly challenged )
Lastly...i did a leakdown test on the bottom end. The bike wouldnt hold pressure at all...not a single PSI...and it sounded like it was leaking out at the clutch but was very hard to hear due to working in a tin shed during a hail storm. Will go back in there tonight to do the test again, and make sure its not operator error resulting in the lack of pressure.
Attachments
Jakobi
Super Moderator
If its done a RHS seal that means it would be sucking trans fluid in. This will also draw more as the revs increase and would explain why the plug is wet and black and why you've been having troubles. I'm sure I read at the start of the thread that the seals had been done though.
19brendan81
New member
And the verdict is finally in....blown crank seals. Right side is cactus. Engine wont hold pressure at all and after drowing the whole motor with soapy water the only place it leaked out was through the clutch cover. After draining the oil I only pulled out 600mls despite putting 1000 into it only 2 rides ago. Interesting to note that the bike never smoked at all during all any of my rides.
So now...how do I change them. Do I need to split the cases?
So now...how do I change them. Do I need to split the cases?
Jakobi
Super Moderator
Quick google. Not an EC but still the same principal I'd imagine. http://www.trials.com.au/absolut/files/articles/trialtech-article-20081122-crankshaft-seals.pdf
19brendan81
New member
Yeah i hope so too. i have done it before on a couple of different bikes. i cant remember if i did it with the engine in the frame though. also these were non wet side seals which are easier.
