Gas Gas ec 2006 1st gear problems

[GGRider01]

No advice for the shift drum, sorry.

Lay the case gaskets up against the left and then the right side case to be safe. They may have minor differences for some minuscule changes made over the years and you should be able to detect them if they exist.

The cylinder base gaskets can be stacked to make your squish gap larger or smaller. Now is as good a time as any to get your squish measurements. You'll need 3mm solder. Off the top of my head, 1.25 or 1.3mm is what you're supposed to shoot for - verify this. Yes this is a lot of installing and uninstalling of parts. Gaskets alone seldom get you to the desired measurement, but do what you can with what you've got. I didn't do mine when I put a new cylinder and head on and in retrospect this was a potentially dangerous choice.

 

[RockefellerGG]

Marking the shift drum isn't all that necessary. It helps line up it up with the shift forks on initial installation, but the forks only fit into the drum easily in one orientation. You really can't screw it up too bad..

If you're worried about it, I'm sure you could just match yours up with my pictures. They're going to be the same as mine.

 

[RockefellerGG]

The workshop manual suggests marking it... after playing with mine for a couple hours, I realized how little I needed to mark it.

 

[Jacob 'Berg]

Another problem is my gasket kit I bought came with 3 gaskets for the cases you put back together, 2 are green and one is dark gray. Do I use both? What is the difference between them?

Also the kit has 2 gaskets for my barrel, do I use both?

It could be that they have included a center case gasket for a 200, which will be different. Just lay the gasket over one of the case halves before installing to make sure that the fitment is correct.

I assume you mean that you received two base gaskets? Usually they include multiple thicknesses of base gaskets. I would try and match the gasket height that was on the bike when you tore it down, unless you want to change the port timing to achieve specific power delivery characteristics.

 

[Munch]

Real quick question guys engine turns over fine up until any pressure is put onto the clutch plates. The second I even try to tighten clutch it will lock up.

 

[Jakobi]

I noticed in RockeFellers thread he marked his shift drum so he knew it went back in the right rotation, I haven't done it and I'm worried it's going to mess something up.

Any tips?

Here are a few pics to help with orientation and to get the forks in the right places.

 

[Munch]

Here are a few pics to help with orientation and to get the forks in the right places.

Thanks but I got all that done, I spent approx 10 hrs on it today and got it all back together to have kind of a big problem I posted one above yours, any advice on it?

Real quick question guys engine turns over fine up until any pressure is put onto the clutch plates. The second I even try to tighten clutch it will lock up.

 

[RockefellerGG]

When you mated the case halves, did you spin the sprocket and shift it through the gears? Did everything turn smooth?

What do you mean by tighten the clutch? You mean the nut? If so, it sounds like you are missing a spacer or washer somewhere or have something in the wrong order. The shaft that the clutch rides on is the input shaft of the transmission. If you miss a spacer either in the clutch or inside the transmission, you can basically squeeze the case with that shaft/clutch. I think you need to go back through and be sure you have it all there and in the right order.

 

[RockefellerGG]

If you have to split cases, I'd look at Jokobi's pictures and mine and double check you have everything in the same orientation.

I had issues with the exploded diagrams showing gears in the transmission in the wrong orientation...

 

[Jakobi]

That was my first thought too. If the input shaft spins and turns the gears as expected before putting the clutch in, then it's something in the clutch binding up. My immediate thoughts were the bearings that sit in behind the basket, and associated washers.

 

[barossi73]

Hard to understand what you mean by tighten clutch,but it could be as simple as the trans is in gear and when you assemble clutch it stops engine turning over as the clutch starts to clamp,in turn locking engine to trans.be sure you are in neutral before you start digging back into it

 

[Munch]

When I closed the cases the engine was turning over fine and went through all 6 geara perfect.

Clutch basket added, plates added and it still turns over fine. The momment pressure is added by adding the springs and bolts everything locks up.

 

[RockefellerGG]

Wait, you're saying that the springs and bolts for the clutch hub are what's locking everything up? When you put the clutch basket in, add the lock tab washer and the big clutch nut, it still spins smooth?

 

[Munch]

Wait, you're saying that the springs and bolts for the clutch hub are what's locking everything up? When you put the clutch basket in, add the lock tab washer and the big clutch nut, it still spins smooth?

I'll try and explain more but I'm on phone so bare with me.

cases closed, gear change mechanism works. Went through all 6 gears with no problems.
Primary gear on.
Kickstart mechanism on.

Basically everything went on except clutch, all turns freely gears ect work nice all is good.

Next up is clutch, outer clutch basket on and everything is still running smooth I can rotate clutch fine no dragging catching ect.
Washer on next, goes inside the big outer basket.
Inner clutch basket on now, this basket is also fine.
Next is the washer that goes inside the inner clutch basket
Next is the plates, friction-steel-friction-steel and so on.
Everything is still ok, all rotates fine. Kick the bike and all rotates real good.
Using your hand apply pressure on clutch plates.
Bike is now stiff, if enough pressure has been applied cannot move basket with your hand.
Use flathead screwdriver to slightly move/free plates now it all works fine.

Obviously from the above you know what happens when the springs and bolts are added - it locks up!!

Sum it up symptoms are:
-Clutch basket does not rotate once any pressure applied
-Bike requires more effort than a 450 4 stroke to kick over when clutch is pulled
-clutch has to be "pumped" to make any difference
-clutch lever feels hard and will only come in around 30% of its normal distance unless a lot of force is applied
-As soon as you release clutch bike shuts off even with no sprocket on bike and high revs



Things I've tried:
Loosen nut on clutch hub
Oil has been in bike for 8hrs, no change
Managed to start bike for approx 30sec to throw oil about, no change

 

[GGRider01]

So the engine will run in neutral but not in gear if I'm reading this right. Instantly tells me something is up with the transmission.

Sounds like something is also keeping the clutch lever from being pulled in very far and I'm certain it's something in the case. Pop 'er open

 

[Munch]

So the engine will run in neutral but not in gear if I'm reading this right. Instantly tells me something is up with the transmission.

Sounds like something is also keeping the clutch lever from being pulled in very far and I'm certain it's something in the case. Pop 'er open

But I think the clutch issue is even there in neutral. I want to be 200% sure it's a gearbox problem before I split it again because I've put so much effort into it I would be really sad/mad if I had to split it.

If I have the clutch OFF and put it into gear and move the sprocket shaft (with a sprocket on it) it turns over really nice, then when I switch gear you know the feeling when you change gear and everythings dry you move a bit and it like jumps into gear? That is happening meaning it's going through the gears real good.

 

[gasgasman]

Two gears in the transmission are engaged at the same time.

I have learned that you need to take a bunch of pics and mark all the shift forks and their location with a paint pen.

 

[Munch]

Two gears in the transmission are engaged at the same time.

I have learned that you need to take a bunch of pics and mark all the shift forks and their location with a paint pen.

Do you think all of this could be down to the shift forks being in the wrong posision? It's hard to believe because the shift forks are either type 1 or type 2 (2x 1, 1x 2). They only go into 3 different places, I checked in the stickied topic here and in the manual and I'm sure I got it right.

I also matched up the thing the forks go into with RockeFellers pics.

 

[gasgasman]

The shift forks can only go one way. Their position on the shift drum is where the issue maybe.

 

[Munch]

The shift forks can only go one way. Their position on the shift drum is where the issue maybe.

Do you mean they can only go one way in terms of fitting?
There are 2 types of fork, 2 of one type and 1 of the other.
2 of them operate gears 1-4 and the other one (smaller) operates gear 5-6.

Is his what you mean? Would getting that wrong make the gears still shift fine?