Gas Gas ec 2006 1st gear problems

That #8 spring looks key to locking the selector drum in position.check that the tip of the long tail hasnt worn or snapped off,if the tail is shortened it would lessen the preload on the spring.also check the spring tail is resting where it should be (and snug the bolts up you have left loose)
 
It does lock the transmission into the gear you've selected, and as per my image shows the intermediate position between 1st and 2nd (neutral). It gives you a lot to work with Munch to ensure that it is functioning. The spring needs to have enough tension to ensure the arm and locator follows the selector.

The torque on the bolt is probably not your problem, unless if the bolt has backed itself out. Being M6 threads these bolts don't need to be done up very tight, but they do need to be torqued down to an adequate level where they won't undo themselves.
 
You guys were right, I had done something wrong in that little mechanism and it is now fixed and sits in neutral nicely :D.

Clutch problem still present though :( Have to switch through gears for clutch to work when bike is off and as soon as I let go of clutch it locks up until I go through gears again :(
 
Long shot but humour me (you have shown a tendency to not tighten bolts!)
Check the slave cyl bolts are snug and all present.
Any flex/movement there translates to less clutch disengagement travel and i have noticed that when i have front sprocket guard off (shares 2 bolts with slave cyl) that cyl flexes a tiny amount when clutch is operated.
Also did you snug up those basket bolts?
is it possible you have overfilled oil?(try with a little less or different weight oil)
 
barossi73 said:
Long shot but humour me (you have shown a tendency to not tighten bolts!)
Check the slave cyl bolts are snug and all present.
Any flex/movement there translates to less clutch disengagement travel and i have noticed that when i have front sprocket guard off (shares 2 bolts with slave cyl) that cyl flexes a tiny amount when clutch is operated.
Also did you snug up those basket bolts?
is it possible you have overfilled oil?(try with a little less or different weight oil)
Click to expand...

All bolts are snug and present, I don't have a chain guard and bolts are all the way in with no play.

Also if it was a problem with it not all being tight would the clutch still work while the bike is running? I can stop with the engine on and rev without any movement, can also kick the bike while in gear with it only taking me forward a little.

Basket bolts are snug, checked them today when I fixed neutral issue.
Fresh oil change today, it was 10w40 now it's 5w30 no difference.
 
Munch said:
Clutch problem still present though: Have to switch through gears for clutch to work when bike is off and as soon as I let go of clutch it locks up until I go through gears again.
Click to expand...

Weirdest thing I've ever heard. Please try and explain this better. What locks up? Are you trying to tell us the clutch lever won't move until you switch gears? Are you absolutely sure there are no wear notches in your clutch hub or clutch basket?
 
Neil E. said:
Weirdest thing I've ever heard. Please try and explain this better. What locks up? Are you trying to tell us the clutch lever won't move until you switch gears? Are you absolutely sure there are no wear notches in your clutch hub or clutch basket?
Click to expand...

Lol sorry, I always think I'm explaining it well and I end up deleting a large portion of my post because I feel like I am bad at writing down what I mean.

If you are in gear and you push your bike without clutch the wheels are "locked up", you can force it to turn over but you are forcing the gears to go around. = LOCKED UP.
(Examples below)

Day 1
I open up garage, pull the bike and I notice it's in gear, pull in the clutch but it makes no difference.
I change to neutral and the bike rolls as it should, no need for clutch of course.

Day 2
I open up garage, pull the bike and notice it's in gear so I pull in the clutch to move the bike but it's locked up, as if the clutch isn't pulled in. I decide to move from GEAR 1 > GEAR 2 (still locked up) I then move to GEAR 3 and it frees up and has quite a lot of clutch drag but it's pushable.
I release the clutch lever as I put the choke on and pull it back in, bike is locked up again until I cycle through 2 gears BUT without cycling I can STILL start the bike in gear with a slight move forward but nothing huge.


It's not a big deal and it's very rideable as the clutch acts perfect when it's running, bite is really nice, starts in gear, coasts well and everything else but I just don't like how it was fine before I rebuilt it and now it's acting like this.

I had the clutch off today while taking a look at the gear change mechanism and I think everything looked good including spacers ect. If it was a missing spacer would the clutch still perform ok while it's in gear? And would it still work after the gear changes?

I know it's a super weird problem that is whats making me want to fix it and not just deal with it.
 
Both my bikes 02 EC 200 and 03 MC250 can not be pushed in gear clutch in I have NEVER owned a bike (of any brand) you could.
 
Im thinkin that your clutch plates may have got shuffled on reassembly.in theory this shouldnt matter,but on a clutch thats had some abuse,the steel plates could be dished/bowed/distorted ever so slightly which wouldnt matter much as all plates are mated together(unless excessive).however if the steels got shuffled,or one was flipped on reassembly,it could cause drag.
Put a straight edge across the steels,or lay 1steel on top of another, and if theres distortion you could try aligning the steels so theyr all dished in one direction.think of a stack of bowls,if you flipped the centre 1 upside down,the whole stack will be taller.
 
cbutler said:
Both my bikes 02 EC 200 and 03 MC250 can not be pushed in gear clutch in I have NEVER owned a bike (of any brand) you could.
Click to expand...

I'm seconding this. The only bike I could do this with was an '03 Honda 919. I wouldn't fret about the clutch drag on a non-running bike.. it's going to be bad no matter what.
 
I agree on the shuffled plates, it's the only thing that can make the changes you are describing. Time to look at this another way:

Let's take the method of bump starting a bike. We all know that bump starting in 1st gear is difficult, so we do it using 3rd gear for example. Maybe what Munch is describing is just the fact that it is harder to overcome clutch friction in the lower gears. I'd check this on my bike but it's stored away at the moment. Maybe one of you guys can try "clutch disengaged" pushing in various gears and see if there is a difference.
 
barossi73 said:
Im thinkin that your clutch plates may have got shuffled on reassembly.in theory this shouldnt matter,but on a clutch thats had some abuse,the steel plates could be dished/bowed/distorted ever so slightly which wouldnt matter much as all plates are mated together(unless excessive).however if the steels got shuffled,or one was flipped on reassembly,it could cause drag.
Put a straight edge across the steels,or lay 1steel on top of another, and if theres distortion you could try aligning the steels so theyr all dished in one direction.think of a stack of bowls,if you flipped the centre 1 upside down,the whole stack will be taller.
Click to expand...

I'm seconding this too!

But also what others have said.

I think you'd be hard pressed to find a bike that doesn't have a little drag engine off, clutch pulled, and trying to push. On warm engine it should be felt as drag. On a cold engine you could indeed have the discs stick together a bit.

As stated earlier, I drop my bike into 2nd and give it a rock forwards and backwards to free the discs up before starting it. Save the awful clunk that occurs if you do it after the engine has started. Only ever for the first start of the day. Rest of the day it rides as normal. If it needs to be manually pushed anywhere I'm in neutral anyway.

Suggestion.. take Barossis advice. While you have them out and checking them drop them into a container with some fluid. Let them get a good volume of oil all over them. Then back into the clutch pack. Check for notches and grooves in the basket fingers. It's been mentioned a few times but I haven't seen your response. If you have some that are small you can file them a bit.

Notches
P1010132_zpsf488bb38.jpg


P1010132_zpsf488bb38.jpg


P1010133_zpsa1cc15cf.jpg


Lightly filed down.
P1010134_zps194d299e.jpg


Don't go overboard, but the idea is that the discs need to be able to slide in the basket.
 
I think I'm going to just leave it and see how I get on with it, clutch is fine once on and I can now find neutral pretty easily so I shouldn't really need to clutch while bike is off/cold.

Do you think this will be ok?
 
Verdict is..

2 x engines checked.

Bike on a centre stand
1st gear trying to turn the wheel over by hand nothing.
2nd gear; nothing.
3rd gear you can overcome the compression and turn the engine over; watch she doesn't fire up!
After it turns once or twice the discs give a bit and it drags.
4th drags.

Putting the bike on the ground in 2nd gear and rocking the engine frees the discs up and makes the bike drag in the lower gears but it does take some effort to push it around.

Been many months since the one I took of the stand was run. Expect the discs to be very much in need of lubrication. The other bike has no shock or linkage so unable to do back to back testing off the stand.

Both engines using a synthetic racing ATF (ford Type F spec).
 
Neil E. said:
No, we want you to be the guinea pig so we all learn things LOL.
Click to expand...

Lol! I just want to get some time on the bike now. Hopefully get some hours on it over the weekend and hopefully not have to post for help anytime soon.

Thanks to all for the help you have been great! :D
 
Cant argue with that,let him ride!
Its obviously pretty close and may settle after a couple good rides where the plates get good and hot and bed a little.the difference between it draggin and not is only a few thou.
 
Surprise surprise.. Got out on the bike today and it was running like crap top end :(. Sounded really lean from what I could hear. My last ride before this was after the rebuild, ran sweet for approx 15min, then a bad attempt at fixing a problem in the powervalve mechanism gave up so I got it wlded (stud going into plate, common problem). It's now welded really good and NOTHING else has changed.
Same temperature.
Same jetting.
Same everything!

First thing I thought was maybe an air screw adjustment would help since it wasn't super bad, I went from 2 turns out to 1.75, 1.5 ect and it would make very small differences but wouldn't solve the problem.

Next up I checked the powervalve mechanism just to make sure something hasn't come loose but everything looks OK although there is loads of back and forth movement which I recorded here: https://youtu.be/brt84jK3g5E - is it normal? If someone could check that would be super helpful.

I had a friend record me going up and down to try and give you an idea of the sound but it came out really bad unfortunately. The FULL power is there, I reach the very top and I'll get a very small amount of powerband and then it's just flat. https://youtu.be/GL2rfbq4Pbk

Can my experience with this piece of ...... get any worse ??
 
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