JD Jetting Kit or Experiment
- Thread starter Edman
- Start date
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Fred1956
New member
I'm aware of the series 1 & 2 but can't see what the nipple would change. 38 is the hole size.......
S
skraMnoR
Guest
I bought the JD kit. My Stock 2011 EC250 had a 180 main and a 42 Pilot. It was running pretty badly. Fouled a couple plugs, tons of smoke, spooge dripping out of exhaust, bad off idle power, etc..
I followed the JD instructions for the Keihin PWK 36 carb in my bike. The kit recommends 170 main and a 38 pilot. I also used the blue needle on the 3rd clip and adjusted the air screw after it warmed up as instructed. The bike started right up and now it has soooo much more power. The front wheel is lifting up under normal acceleration. I am really going to have to focus on throttle control and using higher gears. It's like I was riding a 100cc bike and now I am on a 250cc race bike!
If you are new to jetting, like me, I recommend the JD kit. No guess work and there are left over jets for altitude and weather changes if needed.
I followed the JD instructions for the Keihin PWK 36 carb in my bike. The kit recommends 170 main and a 38 pilot. I also used the blue needle on the 3rd clip and adjusted the air screw after it warmed up as instructed. The bike started right up and now it has soooo much more power. The front wheel is lifting up under normal acceleration. I am really going to have to focus on throttle control and using higher gears. It's like I was riding a 100cc bike and now I am on a 250cc race bike!
If you are new to jetting, like me, I recommend the JD kit. No guess work and there are left over jets for altitude and weather changes if needed.
GMP
Active member
Blue is an excellent needle for the 250. I have a lot of needles and nothing can match the gnarly grunt and midrange you get from this needle. It really does everything well. FWIW, the bike will acheive best torque with slightly rich symptoms like a little smoke and a fair spooge out the Stealth. Too clean is too lean!
S
skraMnoR
Guest
mine is still smoking but not like it was before.
Jakobi
Super Moderator
I'm going to be dropping the JD Red in my bike today.
I'm interested in your experience with the red needle, I'm running it right now in my 2011 250, 38 mm carb. Started with it at 2nd clip from bottom, now it's at the middle position. I really like the power the engine makes with this needle, there's still a little spooge which is ok.. Currently my main is at 178, pilot at 42, air screw at 1.5, elevator.. 500 to 800 ft....
I'm still waiting on a n3cj want to give that a try, but I'm really liking the way this bike runs now...
Ed...
Jakobi
Super Moderator
Well Eddy. I must say I wasn't all that impressed. I started out straight up with 40 Red#3 178. The diameter is a little richer than the W which I have been using. It was still acceptable and made good torque though.
In a nutshell the bike ran alright. It loaded up on me a bit during warm up and broke up big time when I finally gave it a fist of fury. After it coughed its ring out it seemed to come good and provided nice linear power. If thats what you're looking for then this needle is great.
I immediately went home, pulled the seat and tank, slipped the top off the carb without even losing the boots at all. Exchanged the JD Red with my N3CW into clip 3 also. Half a turn in on the air screw to compensate for the change in diameter. Much more explosive. Slightly less burble on the bottom but still good torque. As the revs climb into the mid range you really hear it lean out more than the JD Red. It gets that nice zingy 2T sound and explodes pointing the front end up. At the end of the day they needles both on paper and in feeling are very similar. The JD red is probably closer to a N3EH. The N3CW is a step leaner on the diameter and a half a clip leaner which is why it feels crisper. If I'm feeling testy tomorrow and weather permits I may even try the JD red in #2, but I feel it might be too lean. N3EW#2 is the point where the torque starts to taper off for me and the bike needs to be clutched more to keep it singing.
In the 250 with the work I've had done the J is too lean unless if I run it with a 45 pilot so you might have to try bumping your pilot up a bit too. I think the J works well in the 300. The 250 likes a little more fuel. All this falls pretty much in line with the testing MJC has done with his gasser too.
In a nutshell the bike ran alright. It loaded up on me a bit during warm up and broke up big time when I finally gave it a fist of fury. After it coughed its ring out it seemed to come good and provided nice linear power. If thats what you're looking for then this needle is great.
I immediately went home, pulled the seat and tank, slipped the top off the carb without even losing the boots at all. Exchanged the JD Red with my N3CW into clip 3 also. Half a turn in on the air screw to compensate for the change in diameter. Much more explosive. Slightly less burble on the bottom but still good torque. As the revs climb into the mid range you really hear it lean out more than the JD Red. It gets that nice zingy 2T sound and explodes pointing the front end up. At the end of the day they needles both on paper and in feeling are very similar. The JD red is probably closer to a N3EH. The N3CW is a step leaner on the diameter and a half a clip leaner which is why it feels crisper. If I'm feeling testy tomorrow and weather permits I may even try the JD red in #2, but I feel it might be too lean. N3EW#2 is the point where the torque starts to taper off for me and the bike needs to be clutched more to keep it singing.
In the 250 with the work I've had done the J is too lean unless if I run it with a 45 pilot so you might have to try bumping your pilot up a bit too. I think the J works well in the 300. The 250 likes a little more fuel. All this falls pretty much in line with the testing MJC has done with his gasser too.
Jakobi
Super Moderator
Which needle were you using? Was it a rich break up? I know in the 300 I had to raise the clip to position #2 on the N3Ex needles to get it clean around 1/4 - 1/2 throtte. I used to run N3CJ#2 in that.
The N3CW is definitely not as smooth in the middle as the JD. It leans right out before it comes back into the fuel. The result is very much on/off transition from bottom to top. It'll run super smooth below this, and tear your arms out above it.
The N3CW is definitely not as smooth in the middle as the JD. It leans right out before it comes back into the fuel. The result is very much on/off transition from bottom to top. It'll run super smooth below this, and tear your arms out above it.
GMP
Active member
Jake,
If you have the chance, try a NOTCHED #7 slide. I'd be interested if your bike then likes slightly richer needle settings. On the new carb at least they say the notch is purely for idle sensitivity, seems more to it on my ASI though. Absolute specs are not important just relative change from slide to slide. Just curious if what we hear is true. Thanks.
If you have the chance, try a NOTCHED #7 slide. I'd be interested if your bike then likes slightly richer needle settings. On the new carb at least they say the notch is purely for idle sensitivity, seems more to it on my ASI though. Absolute specs are not important just relative change from slide to slide. Just curious if what we hear is true. Thanks.
Jakobi
Super Moderator
I asked my local dealer if he had any spare slides laying around I could borrow last time I was in there but he didn't. I might have to ask a few of my mates on the other coloured bikes and see what they've ended up with. But in theory if 0.01mm change in needle diameter makes a noticable difference to the idle and off idle response, then I can only imagine the effect that the cutaway in the slide makes. I can't see it just being in effect purely at idle and much more likely to be for the entire duration of the slide circuit (like your findings showed).
I put the N3EW back in at the 3rd clip, is better than the jd red, and pulls clean from bottom to top, it runs the best the bike has run since I got it. When I tried it before with the 40 pilot and 180 main it broke up huge in the middle, now with the 42 pilot and 178 main it flat out rips. The plug is a nice light tan, I think I'm going to give the jetting a rest for now, as this is what I was looking for.. Thanks for all the info you all have posted, makes sorting the GasGas much easier...
My current setup is as follows, 42 p, N3EW #3, 178 main, as 1.5.
Ed...
Jakobi
Super Moderator
Cheers Ed!
Every time I tinker around this is the same needle/config I keep coming back to as well. The only thing I can think of that would make it a bit better is just a touch more fuel around 3/4 throttle just before it comes into the main.
I just received another N3CW, 2 x N3CJ, 2 x N3EW and an N3CH which I am considering sending out to be machined down to give a rich 3rd and final taper much like the NEDx and N1Ex needles without sacrificing the clean and crisp bottom to mid transition. I'm honestly in no rush to do it though.
Every time I tinker around this is the same needle/config I keep coming back to as well. The only thing I can think of that would make it a bit better is just a touch more fuel around 3/4 throttle just before it comes into the main.
I just received another N3CW, 2 x N3CJ, 2 x N3EW and an N3CH which I am considering sending out to be machined down to give a rich 3rd and final taper much like the NEDx and N1Ex needles without sacrificing the clean and crisp bottom to mid transition. I'm honestly in no rush to do it though.
Well do to busy work scheule I have been slow on being able to ride/play with bike and jetting.
So this is where I am at:
NEDJ, top notch, 38 Pilot, 172 Main, 3 turns AS.
Runs good from about 1/4 throttle on. But at idle it seems to be running rich. After a few seconds of idle it begins to smoke abit more. It is alittle boggy out of bottom but once cleared out runs good. But after a few seconds of idle it seems to "load up" a bit. It will die after running a minute or so at idle.
I really wouldn't think I would need to go down more with pilot. Bike runs good and strong except very bottom.
What next? Should I play with notch position. I have a N3CJ but really didn't want too much peepiness, but may try anyways to see what happens.
In a couple months I do plan on getting squish checked, which will help.
Thanks Guys,
Eddie
So this is where I am at:
NEDJ, top notch, 38 Pilot, 172 Main, 3 turns AS.
Runs good from about 1/4 throttle on. But at idle it seems to be running rich. After a few seconds of idle it begins to smoke abit more. It is alittle boggy out of bottom but once cleared out runs good. But after a few seconds of idle it seems to "load up" a bit. It will die after running a minute or so at idle.
I really wouldn't think I would need to go down more with pilot. Bike runs good and strong except very bottom.
What next? Should I play with notch position. I have a N3CJ but really didn't want too much peepiness, but may try anyways to see what happens.
In a couple months I do plan on getting squish checked, which will help.
Thanks Guys,
Eddie
Jakobi
Super Moderator
38mm or 36mm carb, series one or two? Temp, RH, elevation?Thats a pretty lean setup. I wouldn't be surprised if your bike is running a decent amount of squish gap. Setting that will make things much easier to do. My bike will stall out if I leave it idling for a minute too. You need the excess fuel to make good torque. Engine load lugging up a hill just off idle vs sitting on the stand are vastly different, and your jetting is a compromise. I know which scenario is best to head towards.
Addressing your question under 1/4 throttle will be pilot or needle diameter. I've yet to hear of anyone needing a K diameter needle on here.
Addressing your question under 1/4 throttle will be pilot or needle diameter. I've yet to hear of anyone needing a K diameter needle on here.
GasGas
New member
I just started running an DEP silencer on my 11 ec250. It about half the weight of the stock unit and seems to make a huge difference in the snappiness and big improvement when lugging. Should I richen up my jetting for the change in exhaust? The reason I ask is that it seemed to have some detonation when chopping the throttle yesterday at the scramble.
