KTM riders relying on our GG parts

[MattR]

I thought this was funny...

You always hear concerns about GasGas parts availability. Well, the KTM riders are buying GasGas dual map switches since they are in stock at our GG dealers and backordered at the KTM dealers. Also, it sounds like the GG switches are more compact, better looking, and less expensive.

Score:
GasGas =1
KTM = 0

Here is the thread on KTMTalk.
http://ktmtalk.com/index.php?showtopic=262492&st=0

 

[cladoo]

I've sold at least ten of these to Orange riders! And more are asking for them!

 

[Skidad]

KTM has very big problems with back ordered stuff. This switch is just one of the many parts on BO.

The KTM switch is a large bulky looking thing for sure. The GG switch is nice and more compact and easier to find bar space for.


Skidad in MA

 

[blitz11]

Are we this insecure?

I really don't get this continuous KTM bashing. Is that fact that KTM riders like a GasGas switch really "relying" on GG parts? I bought a KTM radiator cap for my EC300. Does that mean I am relying on KTM for GG parts?

Someone stated that the reason that they like this forum is that brand bashing doesn't go on, and that we state it like it is. Well, it seems to me that we're bashing KTM at every instance. To be honest, my daughter's 200 EXC is very well designed; it uses the same forks as my GG, and with a simple, do it yourself revalve of the PDS, she's VERY happy with the bike. The adjustable PV system on that 200 is very well designed and executed. It makes the GG wire look crude. The wire works, but if KTM owners wanted to bash us, they could.

Constant comparisons with and bashing of KTM makes the whole GG group look very insecure. I don't have any KTM Loyalty other than the 200exc is small, light, and fast, and works great for my 13 year old daughter. GG 200 is way too big for her, so she rides a KTM.

Sorry, i just had to vent.

blitz

 

[GMP]

I do not consider this bashing. Nothing incorrect was stated here. By comparison, there is MUCH disinformation about GGs and also Huskys on KTMTalk. I've owned KTM 200s and 300s as well, as have friends. Most of the time your OK, but if its not in Ohio your screwed. I've heard stories of EXC 200 cranks months out and my friend waited over a month for a 300 radiator. No BS, they just never talk about their own parts issues over there.

Do some research on the KTM200 PV, and you will find that it wears and needs replacement parts occasionally. There was a detailed tech thread on KTMTalk about this a few years ago. Also, the adjustment was never conceived for use by the rider to alter power delivery, it was to adjust the main flap height or "Y" as they call it after top end R&R. The GG PV may look crude by comparison, but its a simple rugged design, with steel parts.

I do like the fact that the KTM 200 is based on the 125, and it is light and compact. Great workmanship and many people are happy with it. My biggest complaints were suspension and a lot of vibration.

You'll never sell me on the suspension though, its just not true that its as good as the GG package. Maybe its the best if your getting paid to ride it and say so, and its adequate for many, but in reality its not as good.

 

[blitz11]

GMP, I think your assessment is fair. I've also learned a great deal from reading your posts, and I appreciate your insight.

I bought the KTM used from a (now AA) rider who raced it a lot. It's a very durable machine, and reliable as well. My daughter doesn't race it, and she's coming from a TTR-125, so maybe the suspension could be better. It's way more bike than i will ever be able to take full advantage of. Hopefully, she'll be fast enough one day to demand more. When she does, it'll be a GG. (She loved our factory visit this summer.)

BTW, the PV looked perfect after three hard years and one easy one. I've designed things for one purpose, and found out later it served another. Can't beat the leverage.

Maybe my problem is reading or perceiving a rash of complaints/criticisms of KTM. Maybe I need to self edit, and focus on GG and what can help the brand succeed and can make the bikes better, and stay away from the KTM-related posts.

Thanks.

blitz

 

[GMP]

Try to find that thread on KTM Talk. I remember that Clay, one of the gurus there gave very informative info including pics. Do they have an archive? Hey, all things change and its probably improved. I had no trouble with mine but sold it before its first top end.

 

[MattR]

I really don't get this continuous KTM bashing. Is that fact that KTM riders like a GasGas switch really "relying" on GG parts?

I'm sorry if my post can across as "bashing". I never intended it to be taken that way. I wanted to highlight that KTM riders were looking to our dealers for parts support. This is a very positive thing! Also, the cosmetic appearance of our switch was better in their opinion. Again, a very positive thing!

Perhaps my score thing was misleading... but I just meant we scored a hit with a simple switch and the excellent availability by multiple GG dealers.

 

[REVERUP]

I got a problem, I'm a KTM Basher. I can admit it.
As long as the forests are littered with orange plastic I will continue being one. Its fun!
99% of my club ride them. Another 99% of my friends ride them. 50% of my competitors, or more race them. They bash me for riding a Gas Gas cause they can gang up in numbers. Then I get them back with funny pictures like one I snapped of my 2 buddies trying to transfer gas from one KTM to the one that ran out of fuel with a short piece of fuel line. They had to basically stack the two KTM's on top of each other. Right as they were getting ready to pull them apart I snapped the photo. I put a caption on it and gave it to them. It said "The real reason there are so many orange bikes out there, the owners cant even stop them from breeding"

Even if there were KTM bashing comments on here it would be all in fun, not to make some one feel inferior cause they own one. Sometimes you just need to have a little thicker skin and not let things get to ya so much. I love all motorcycles and only razz KTM owners cause its easy to.

 

[JRDoz]

Like it has been said earlier, When everyone else rides KTM, The target is to big and asking for it .

 

[Skidad]

If I may be so bold here I'll chime in. I'm an avid KTM Talker with over 800 posts on their site (a VERY low # compared with many). I've been over here maybe a month researching the GG brand bikes and am contemplating a switch even though I have one of the best KTM dealers in New England not 10 minutes from my house. I own 2 KTM's, a 1997 250 EXC and a 2004 625 SXC dual sport. I have a very open mind for many brands (well maybe not Jap), especially European, and really root for the little guy. (KTM was Penton when I started riding and WAS the little guy) I do get the feeling and have noticed quite a bit of orange bashing here for sure. Some deserved and some not so. I can also tell you this that in all the time I've spent on KTM Talk I can't recall people putting down the GG brand. The Jap bike YES but not the GG bikes. If so it's very isolated and realated probably to the lack of dealer network and worries about parts availability which was also a big concern of mine. A valid if perhaps an uneducated issue really from the outside looking in. You do need to be more resourceful owning a GG bike unless you have a great dealer nearby. Nearest to me is over 50 miles away. The KTM parts back order issue with parts and acessories has been discussed extensively over there despite what the above poster said. I feel they may be growing too fast and just can't stay on top of everything.

KTM riders are really hard on each other as well. The wars over there with 2 stroke vs 4 stroke, one size motor vs another, close ratio trans vs wide ratio and others is endless. Gets downright nasty at times. And lets not even start on the 2 stroke E-start thing. (I'm in full support of the e-start by the way and also the don't knock it till you try it category. Read the Jan. 08 Trail Rider review of the 300 XCWe)

KTM's do have their issues/problems for sure. They are churning out so much new stuff it's almost scary and people are chomping for more. Issues seem to be croping up more with the new stuff but maybe it's because there's so much product available now. Suspension, what can I say? It's FAR more finicky to setup I don't deny that and will most likely need to be revalved to get good. Even then it can be a crap shoot. They are getting better and better and the 07 and especially the 08's with the frame change is quite good. My 97 250 is old school KTM with conventional Marzocchi forks and Ohlins shock with linkage. It's a wonderfull woods bike with suspension I've felt is as good or better than some of the newer KTM models. This has also been conveyed to me from a few very good suspension tuners. It's a 250lb dry porker though but I love it.

KTM power valves are extremely durable by the way unlike reports above. Properly taken care of they will last many years with no problems and are made of quality materials. My power valve on the 97 was just serviced for the first time in many years and it was working fine. I also am on the original clutch and lower end and am finally changing the crank seals. 2 top ends only and the bike has been ridden hard by 2 A rider owners 1 being me. The power valves on the newer bikes can be adjusted with different springs and a spring tension adjustment also. A very nice tuning aid if you ask me. (again don't knock it till you try it here)

KTM's are excellent bikes, more tricky to set up to get working really well in the suspension dept. but close enough for most. They work and win bottom line. I'm not here to defend the KTM brand really but just give you my observation from my short time on this GG site and respond to a few of the posts that kind of bothered me. I can take bashing just fine and some of it's really funny but some just really unjustified or uneducated in it's delivery. Don't waste your time and energy, we're all in this fun sport together.

All that being said I am really enjoying all the material over here in GG land and have spent WAY to much time at work and late nights reading through the many posts. If I had the money I would probably have one right now in my grubby little hands. They have some nice traits and features that really appeal to me (KTM's as well) and also the "different" factor which I seem to be drawn to. Hopefully this year I will become one of the GG converts and will join this close family but I'm still keeping my other 2 KTM's so I'll be on both sides of the fence. (bikes that is)


Skidad in MA

 

[GMP]

If I thought that the bashing was excessive or crossed the line I'd stop it and I'm sure Jeff would as well. This is nothing, I've seen it taken to a personal level over there. A guy went on a rant and attacked the very dealer I bought my bike from, simply for what he claimed were outrageous prices on leftovers, and it went downhill from there. This will never happen here I assure you.

BTW Skidad, I didn't pull that PV comment out of my a$%, if your involved a lot over there you should have seen it. It relates only to the 200. The 250/300 PVs are fine just a lot more complicated than the GG, which is adjustment free. BTW, if you ever had a Husky WR250 (that is actually an older Cagiva design), you can see where KTM possibly got the basic design from, its VERY close.

 

[Boomhauer]

I do get the feeling and have noticed quite a bit of orange bashing here for sure. Some deserved and some not so. I can also tell you this that in all the time I've spent on KTM Talk I can't recall people putting down the GG brand. The Jap bike YES but not the GG bikes. If so it's very isolated and realated probably to the lack of dealer network and worries about parts availability which was also a big concern of mine.

Sorry Skidad I will have to disagree with your comment. Go over and look in the Euro section on KTM talk. Find a thread with the GG brand and you will see the comments Glenn or myself have seen. Trust me they for the most part are very negative to the GG brand. Half of the time those guys over there speak out of the rear ends and have no experiance with the GG brand.

Like many others I owned a KTM 200 and sold it when I took my first ride on an 06 300 GG. I spent just as much money on getting my suspension set up as I did on the purchase of the bike and it was still not right when I sold it. To where with my GG it was great straight out of the box.

Many times the KTM guys come over here in search of answers about the GG brand and we answer them respectfully. Yes we do razz them, but it is in all good fun.

Boom

 

[Berkyboy]

Over the years we've sold a few GasGas radiators (which used to be the same as some KTM radiators) to the KTM Guys when they couldn't get them from their dealers.

The fun part was always including a GasGas sticker with their purchase.

 

[Skidad]

Sorry Skidad I will have to disagree with your comment. Go over and look in the Euro section on KTM talk. Find a thread with the GG brand and you will see the comments Glenn or myself have seen. Trust me they for the most part are very negative to the GG brand. Half of the time those guys over there speak out of the rear ends and have no experiance with the GG brand.



Boom

If this is the case then it's really to bad. It goes back to my feelings about don't knock it until you try it. Don't criticize something when you don't really know or because someone else does.

I read, listen, and then do my OWN research. That's why I'm over here for sure and bugging you guys. From everything I read and all the tests of the GG bikes they are an outstanding tool for the job that I'm looking to do. The positives outweigh the negatives for me. Now I just need to ride one to seal the deal.


Skidad in MA

 

[fury1]

SkiDad,we are looking to ride this weekend in plainville,possibly about 30 or 40 miles,not sure if its going to be saturday or sunday,no studs though,ground may be a little slippery with regular tires but your more than welcome to come along

 

[bukwheat]

I think for the most part, everybody takes the ribbing pretty well on both sides. Some will "wear the hearts on their sleeves" and get their lil' feelings hurt but there will always be the "too sensitive" types.

I check in at KTMTalk several times every day. Have enjoyed that forum since '03 when I got my 200. Its hard to beat it for info on any bike. Thats where I got the "heads up" on this forum. But I have thrown my "barbs" out a few times over there, nothing real direct or scathing, just kind of "stirring the pot" just to let them know there is an alternative to orange.

But it wears kind of thin when you hear people (kool aid drinkers??) talking about how totally awesome there KTMs handle and how they have progressed sooooo far since the previous year when I know what I went thru to get mine (which was "totally awesome" in 03) dialed in only to be disappointed with the end result.

I, too, like Skidad, roots for the lil' guy. I have had some "off the wall" brands in the 40 years I have been riding. I think I was the only guy with a
DKW in the whole state of Kentucky back in 71!

As I have aged and definitely paid my dues and have become more affluent
and discriminating, I feel I deserve the best, don't mind spending the money for the best and that is why right now I have a GG. Those TM's sure look good though......

 

[MattR]

Those TM's sure look good though......

OK now you have done it... I seen you use the "roll-the-eyes" emoticon. You're starting to bash TM's now. Bash, bash, bash, bash, bash.... I hereby bash every brand of bike (including GasGas) just for the sake of bashing, because bashing makes me feel happy today knowing that bashing for the sake of bashing will only result in more bashing by other people seeking to bash in response to my bashing. Thereby, I shall cease all my bashing for the remainder of 2008 in hopes that other GG riders end their bashing of all could-be-bashed brands of bikes.

I feel better now and no one should ever have to utter the words of bashing on these forums again.

Actually, it's all of Boomhauer's fault... he started poking fun at my KTM200 and calling me a traitor this past year. Well, I am hereby the self-proclaimed "bashing king" of this website and no one shall bash more than me.

Sorry, I couldn't help myself... I feel better now since I took my medicines.

 

[bukwheat]

Geez, Matt, you need to really learn how to bash. You don't bash very good and you could do so much better. You're not living up to your bashing potential, what are you? a bashing underachiever??? Come on, man...you can do better than that!

Yo, Matt, I just bashed your bash!

 

[Boomhauer]

Actually, it's all of Boomhauer's fault... he started poking fun at my KTM200 and calling me a traitor this past year.

Yeah and you are still a Rotting Pumpkin Riding TRAITOR

And now you are coming back to the dark side!