NEW. GASGAS Cami 250F

Not impressed. Seeing a weeney ride like that with a GasGas badge troubles me. I get it that a manufacturer has to sell more bikes to survive, but when when you alienate your base, that's not good.

GG can grow by sticking to it's core business of producing top-notch 2-t off-road bikes for the European and North American markets. KTM has laid the ground work and GG is set to pick-off market share. The Japanese have abondoned the segment, so there is room to grow for GG.

If GG needs to sell Chinese hybrids in South America to survive, we're in trouble? I guess it works for Honda - but there is a reason I don't own one. Is this what the global economy requires GG to do to pay the bills?

What is GG Spain thinking? Right on the cusp of a big breakout in North America ...

Just my thoughts, and I'm sure there is stuff I don't know.

Jason
 
JP4 said:
Not impressed. Seeing a weeney ride like that with a GasGas badge troubles me. I get it that a manufacturer has to sell more bikes to survive, but when when you alienate your base, that's not good.

GG can grow by sticking to it's core business of producing top-notch 2-t off-road bikes for the European and North American markets. KTM has laid the ground work and GG is set to pick-off market share. The Japanese have abondoned the segment, so there is room to grow for GG.

If GG needs to sell Chinese hybrids in South America to survive, we're in trouble? I guess it works for Honda - but there is a reason I don't own one. Is this what the global economy requires GG to do to pay the bills?

What is GG Spain thinking? Right on the cusp of a big breakout in North America ...

Just my thoughts, and I'm sure there is stuff I don't know.

Jason
Click to expand...

I agree with you mate! Its shameful to push out something like this. Like there isn't enough chinga jokes about the brand already without going and making one. If it turns out to be unrealiable it could do significant damage to the brands reputation.

I don't see this as selling the brand and if they needed to make the sales for financial reasons then I think rebadging would be the way to go.
 
JP4 said:
GG can grow by sticking to it's core business of producing top-notch 2-t off-road bikes for the European and North American markets. KTM has laid the ground work and GG is set to pick-off market share. The Japanese have abondoned the segment, so there is room to grow for GG.
Click to expand...

That's debatable. Gas Gas has to increase its revenue some how.
Selling a top notch bike alone won't do it.
The average age of a Gas Gas owner (my observation) is 40 years old. A 40 year old person does not buy a new bike every year. This hurts GasGas' revenue.
 
My .02 for what it's worth.....I have been able to travel to many different countries, Japan, Okinawa, Thialand, Hong Kong, Sinapore, Australia, Philippines, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, Jordon, UAE, Yemen, Somalia, Eritrea, Bahrain, Mexico, and some I forgot...never the less, most of the of those countries people ride motor bikes to get around. Now, I've never ventured down to South America but from what I have read, motorbikes a form of transportation that get people around. They don't use them for racing or trail riding, it's the family car, and from what I've seen in my vast travels motorbikes are all over the place. The streets are narrow, traffic is a mess, try driving a car in Singapore! Been there...done that and it...you don't get far very fast.

The big four have bikes all over this world.They are made for the NON-USA markets, were just a drop in the bucket in our own little world.

http://www.yamaha-motor.eu/eu/products/motorcycles/125cc/wr125r.aspx

If GasGas wants to sell a bikes for other markets that is primary mode of transportation....then do it! If it brings in a few bucks to more power to them!

Thanks
 
We shall see what we shall see, but don't knock China for trying. All of your Honda, Yamaha, and some other small engines for small bikes and generators have been made in China for at least 10 years. If you have a Honda generator, the motor was not made in Japan. It was made in China, Indonesia, Taiwan, or somewhere, under patent and quality control by Japanese engineers.

Someone said CRF 230 replacement? The CRF 230 motor is made in China although Honda hates to advertise it. They are some pretty good motors from what I hear.

If this bike is really just a better engineered CRF/TTR replacement, it might be ok.

As for the carb, the one thing I've never seen China make well are carbs. They try to copy the Japs but they are never any good. I think the CRF carb is still made in Japan, the motor in China.

The first thing I noticed was the conventional forks. For a play bike, I prefer conventional forks. The seals almost never blow! For a kids/wifes bike, simple and a bit old school is good because I barely find time to work on my own race bikes.

Scotty R, Taurus and Rossi have been having guns produced under their patents and quality control in Brazil for many years. I think one of those might even be Brazil based? Not sure. But Taurus was the first company to make a 7, then an 8 shot large revolver on .357, and you won't find a better one. They were also one of the first to use Titanium in a revolver and make it strong enough to shoot + P rounds without warping the frame.

What galls me is that we can't make a good race bike in the US! Harley started development of an Adventure bike several yrs ago and qave up for some reason. I want to see an American made off road race bike that is competitive.
 
When we first visited GG in Spain, we were told that if we had a special model that would work in the US and we could do enough volume then GG would look at building it for us. They built the Randonne at the request of a distributor (one of the Oriental ones, if I remember correctly). This bike is being built at the request of a SA distributor. The distributor had in mind a certain price point that dictated the use of an engine built in China. Do you think they could produce a brand new 4T motor for a price leader and keep it as a price leader? Every motorcycle company out there is struggling and if this motorcycle helps make GG more profitable, then more power to them. In the current economy, you guys have unrealistic expectations of staying pure to the off road concept. Pretty much at this point we're holding our own on profits. If I could sell scooters to make some extra cash to keep our company profitable, I'd do it. That doesn't mean we would abandon the off road customer...it just means we were looking for another product to make some money. I'd still be at National Enduros and raising hell with GG for more improvements. The same goes for Gas Gas. Building this bike for transportation in SA isn't going to hurt their core business. It may give them cash flow to make to help improve their core. It's easy to sit on your couch with the computer and bitch about a bike like this but it is totally different to try to run a dealership, distributorship or to manufacture motorcycles in this economy. The freakin' economy in Spain is so bad that the Spainish citizens are rioting! Lighten up and cut the company some slack, ok?
 
I agree with Clay. I don't see this hurting Gas Gas, to me it seems like a pretty smart move. This just expands their customer base. Honda and Yamaha make bikes like this and it doesn't seem to hurt their motocross bikes or turn away the people that ride them. My wife rides a CRF 230 and loves it, she doesn't like the arm ripping snap of a race bike, if Gas Gas ever brought a bike like this to North America I would definetely look at geting one for her and I would still be riding a GG 300. Just my .02
 
I can see Clay's point and look on the bright side. More revenue from entry level bikes might be used for more research and development on the race bikes....
 
I am not gonna lie. I would put my wife/future kids on one of these in a heartbeat. What would be wrong with a cheap/non high performance motor with a fantastic frame and handling of a GasGas?!?

I don't know of a successful auto company that does not have an entry level auto. The only companies that don't make an entry level auto are the exotics, and they charge 10 times the price for their autos. I think the exotic brand of GasGas is a steal especially when they are extremely close in price to the big companies.

I appreciate that they only bring the racing models to the US, it gives a perception they only make race quality vehicles. The only problem with that is that if a dealer makes between $100~1000 each on a motorcycle (if that), to a somewhat closed/small group of enthusiasts. Why not open up a range to get a larger group interested in the brand. I would honestly like to see a more entry level bike you could put a young rider on that was a GasGas. Now if the American people could understand you get what you pay for, that is a whole new story...

Right now, I believe Clay is doing an amazing job in all aspects of the brand. Most wouldn't even know what a GasGas was until the past few years and Clay's direct involvement. I am not going to pretend to know how much he makes on a bike or pretend to know what sells and where. I will say that Clay obviously gets feedback and utilizes that to its potential! Even though I would like to see this bike in the USA. There I said it!

Think about the average GasGas rider in terms of those riding newer bikes. The older GasGas bikes may be in the hands of some young guns. The newer bikes seem to end up in 30-50 yr old riders who can afford to pay for a premium product, and you get a premium product in return.

What if you could open up a market for the 12-15 yr old enthusiast who wants to ride enduros. Then said 30-50 yr old dads could buy them a GasGas for half price. Kids are where you build loyalty. Why do you think Tobacco companies tried to target kids? I used to be awful loyal to Yamaha only because my dad had a Tri-moto 175. Why not get the kids/adult trail riders on a GasGas frame, the power shouldn't really be an issue for those guys. If you treated it nicely I would bet that Chinese motor would hold up just fine until you got some nasty racer on it that would punish it. At least the frame would hold up just fine!

I guess my point is that if there is a market for something and they can make a buck at it with relatively no research, (old frame and old parts with an outsourced motor) what a great idea! Why not??? Especially in a country that doesn't care about the fastest motor and wants transportation.

Why doesn't it bother people that KTM's parent company builds these?!?

Bajaj Motors AKA KTM

To say it tarnishes a name to make an entry level bike is ludicrous!
 
I think its tough for people from a philosophical stand point, being loyal to a brand, its identity, the factory they are built in and so on to deal with the Chinese parts. If the factory had to make a move to fill an order and remain profitable I don't see how its bad...?

Chinese factories aren't what they use to be either. Talking with my father who works in a glass factory that also has Chinese factories things have changed. The Chinese government requires factories to have the best and most modern equipment. Dad worked with a guy from China who trained in the states on Fanuc robotic arms, used in Detroit, then they went to France to learn the best and newest glass making equipment. Look at the newest batch of Honda GX 270 clones they've come a long way like it or not, some say they are better than the original.?

Not that I like the Chinese take over or support it in all cases, but it is getting tougher to avoid and you have to do what is necessary and smart to stay alive. I don't think many other countries take a dislike to the situation as many here do? I think to many people around the world if it works it works.


cheers,

Rick
 
Very Nice.. NOT!:mad:

Sorry, but the Chineese are a bunch of pirates and cheaters of the system. Any company that has mfg done their opens the door for piracy. I know this first hand from working for the GERMAN TUV. We would license a product, like a simple floor lamp, to be made in a Chineese factory by an American company to be sold in Europe. So someone in Europe gets electrocuted, and it turns out to be a cheaper copy of the licensed product made in another factory, right down to the actual licence label and number! True story. This is only a small example. How about the wheat gluten imported for dog food that had elthelene glycol added to fool the protein QC tests. We had a dog die from that s%^t.:( Some things (a lot) unfortunately you can't avoid buying, but when at all possible I do. Yeah, companies do what they have to do to survive, I see that. I don't NEED a dirt bike. I'd give it up before riding one form China. JMO.
 
If it were priced with the 230s I'd buy one in a heartbeat for my wife!

I'd also bet that there are a LOT of people who could ride that faster than a competition based bike. Just sayin.
 
That I am sure. We had some really fast guys in the ECEA riding XRs a few years back.

The Pampera makes a nice wife bike.
 
Glenn. I hope you don't plan on going on the TV show, Shark Tank.:D
They are always pushing people to move their production to China.:(
 
ive disagreed with some of glenn's views in the past but i do 100% AGREE with what your saying on this one, i agree with you on every sentence!
 
Thanks Trevor. Sorry for the rant but it gets me pissed off. Hell, the Chineese likely fund their space program from the crap we buy in Walmart alone. Think what you want about Trump but I like his plan of a 25% tax on all Chineese goods to force them to play fair.
 
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