Clay
Banned
Jeff,
All of the info I have from the factory says that the Race 250/300/250 4T will have a new Marzocchi 48 mm fork.
Clay
Opinion of Changes to US GG line for 2012
- Thread starter Clay
- Start date
Jeff,
All of the info I have from the factory says that the Race 250/300/250 4T will have a new Marzocchi 48 mm fork.
Clay
Thanks for the clarification Clay - So that's the new fork, I think Les told me that this one is spec'ed to be closed chamber. This one will have updated internals with floating piston, etc. Very good stuff....
jeff
Vindicator
New member
Dear Clay,
Hope I'm not being inconvenient by posting my opinion as I'm new to the "family" and I don't have a Gas Gas...
Let me start by saluting you for this topic, these kind of actions are indeed one of the paths to the bright future of any brand.
The way I see it Gas Gas is a reference in the 2st world since ever and should aim to be so in the future. Everyone I know back here will gladly tell you that the smokers are great bikes especially the ones with the full Ohlins option package they had in the past. It's still a reference in Portugal.
From my point of view Gas Gas future resides on 2 strokes by gaining market share from KTM and Yamaha. GG goals should be building flawless machines as it's obvious that quality control needs great improvements and details like plastic fitment and all others already mentioned here can be easily reviewed.
As for the models, I think that what fits US would certainly fit Portugal
so my suggestions would be:
- standard 200,250,300 model with :
* Ohlins/Sachs 48
* E-Start with option to remove it by including in the package the needed engine and PV covers
* Skid plate
* TM Designs or BRP chain guide
-Race model 250,300 with:
* Ohlins/Marzocchi 48 CC http://www.marzocchi.com/Template/detailProdotti.asp?LN=UK&idC=1686&IdFolder=128&IdOggetto=57626
* E-Start with option to remove it by including in the package the needed engine and PV covers.
* Skid plate
* Stealth rear sprocket
* TM Designs or BRP chain guide
* Rental Twin Wall
* Radiator braces
* Galfer or Braking floating rotors
My dream specs that would make GG top notch bike would be a Race model but with:
- Showa/Showa 47 CC (the same package as the Suzuki RMX 450-Z)
- X-Trig triple clamps http://www.xtrig.de/index.php?lang=EN&page=gabelbruecken
- Excell A60 rims
- Talon hubs
In a more general way GG should have next year, and long over due:
- improved and accurate web site
- power parts catalog
- complete detailed manuals for each model
- shop manual for engine and chassis
Don't be shy to take a look at how KTM manages to be so efficient at this...
My 2 cents...
Hope I'm not being inconvenient by posting my opinion as I'm new to the "family" and I don't have a Gas Gas...
Let me start by saluting you for this topic, these kind of actions are indeed one of the paths to the bright future of any brand.
The way I see it Gas Gas is a reference in the 2st world since ever and should aim to be so in the future. Everyone I know back here will gladly tell you that the smokers are great bikes especially the ones with the full Ohlins option package they had in the past. It's still a reference in Portugal.
From my point of view Gas Gas future resides on 2 strokes by gaining market share from KTM and Yamaha. GG goals should be building flawless machines as it's obvious that quality control needs great improvements and details like plastic fitment and all others already mentioned here can be easily reviewed.
As for the models, I think that what fits US would certainly fit Portugal
so my suggestions would be:- standard 200,250,300 model with :
* Ohlins/Sachs 48
* E-Start with option to remove it by including in the package the needed engine and PV covers
* Skid plate
* TM Designs or BRP chain guide
-Race model 250,300 with:
* Ohlins/Marzocchi 48 CC http://www.marzocchi.com/Template/detailProdotti.asp?LN=UK&idC=1686&IdFolder=128&IdOggetto=57626
* E-Start with option to remove it by including in the package the needed engine and PV covers.
* Skid plate
* Stealth rear sprocket
* TM Designs or BRP chain guide
* Rental Twin Wall
* Radiator braces
* Galfer or Braking floating rotors
My dream specs that would make GG top notch bike would be a Race model but with:
- Showa/Showa 47 CC (the same package as the Suzuki RMX 450-Z)
- X-Trig triple clamps http://www.xtrig.de/index.php?lang=EN&page=gabelbruecken
- Excell A60 rims
- Talon hubs
In a more general way GG should have next year, and long over due:
- improved and accurate web site
- power parts catalog
- complete detailed manuals for each model
- shop manual for engine and chassis
Don't be shy to take a look at how KTM manages to be so efficient at this...
My 2 cents...
Changes
I think knowing what I know from an independent shop K.I.S.S. is the why to go. Changing parts and custom ordering bikes while cool is nuts. No one knowing what parts are needed or how to track what was done to a bike. It may work if the original purchaser has a build sheet but a second owner getting there hands on that will be slim. If the second customer or shop has to deal with ordering parts that are incorrect it will leave people with a bad taste. Reputation will travel fast it could get crazy. Its even harder for a guy who is talked into a GG and doesn't go on forums and doesn't know his bike is defferent then the rest.
Companies like Polaris, Artic Cat, and even KTM can be a crap shoot at times for ordering parts, not to pick on any one. Some bikes you get a directive to look at a build date to get the correct part and then its still incorrect. Standardization will make it easier for parts, tucker, and other suppliers to stock aftermarket parts, along with the sales.
Remember that repeat sales are the fuel to keep the ball rolling. So things need to be easier for people to understand that are not into the brand. Not everyone can frequent a form to findout all of the neccissary details to purchase a bike.
I think the bikes have come a long way in fit and finish. Even just in 2010 and 2011. I never would have purchased one if not for that, they have a bad reputation as being terribly unreliable in my area.
Well all for now got cut short...hope it helps..lol
Cheers,
Rick
I think knowing what I know from an independent shop K.I.S.S. is the why to go. Changing parts and custom ordering bikes while cool is nuts. No one knowing what parts are needed or how to track what was done to a bike. It may work if the original purchaser has a build sheet but a second owner getting there hands on that will be slim. If the second customer or shop has to deal with ordering parts that are incorrect it will leave people with a bad taste. Reputation will travel fast it could get crazy. Its even harder for a guy who is talked into a GG and doesn't go on forums and doesn't know his bike is defferent then the rest.
Companies like Polaris, Artic Cat, and even KTM can be a crap shoot at times for ordering parts, not to pick on any one. Some bikes you get a directive to look at a build date to get the correct part and then its still incorrect. Standardization will make it easier for parts, tucker, and other suppliers to stock aftermarket parts, along with the sales.
Remember that repeat sales are the fuel to keep the ball rolling. So things need to be easier for people to understand that are not into the brand. Not everyone can frequent a form to findout all of the neccissary details to purchase a bike.
I think the bikes have come a long way in fit and finish. Even just in 2010 and 2011. I never would have purchased one if not for that, they have a bad reputation as being terribly unreliable in my area.
Well all for now got cut short...hope it helps..lol
Cheers,
Rick
Kudos to Gas Gas for putting all of the eggs in the 2 stroke basket in North America. I'd hate to be one of the companies trying to find a dumping ground for all of the unwanted 4 strokes right now.
If it were up to me I would separate into two models by intended usage to minimize overlap along with a super-premium race model.
1) 200/250/300 EC - Enduro Model with heavier ignition, e-start, headlight, spark arrestor, dual ignition modes, trail optimized suspension (LTR edition?), kit available for e-start removal. Out-of-the-box woods bike for the weekend warrior.
2) 200/250/300 XC - Cross Country Model with lighter ignition, kickstart, suspension optimized for hairscrambles, etc.., Serves both as the hard-edge minimalist race model and as the pricepoint model that could be adapted with a few powerparts.
3) 250/300 XC-R Full-on bling race edition. Ohlins suspension, color annodized bits, etc..
If it were up to me I would separate into two models by intended usage to minimize overlap along with a super-premium race model.
1) 200/250/300 EC - Enduro Model with heavier ignition, e-start, headlight, spark arrestor, dual ignition modes, trail optimized suspension (LTR edition?), kit available for e-start removal. Out-of-the-box woods bike for the weekend warrior.
2) 200/250/300 XC - Cross Country Model with lighter ignition, kickstart, suspension optimized for hairscrambles, etc.., Serves both as the hard-edge minimalist race model and as the pricepoint model that could be adapted with a few powerparts.
3) 250/300 XC-R Full-on bling race edition. Ohlins suspension, color annodized bits, etc..
Skidad
New member
Interesting, this Marzocchi site no longer even lists the 45mm forks. 48mm, 50mm, and even a 53mm
fork. All closed chamber.The 50mm closed chamber forks are awesome! How about an improved adjustment system for the rear axle. Guys really like to be able to mess with how the powervalve actuates. All I care is that it doesn't rattle . Printed parts manuals and shop manuals included with the new bike would likely give some peace of mind as well.
Nick
Gold Level Site Supporter
I dont quite understand why the 450 gets left out. I was a dealer for a couple years and sold 16-17 bikes (dont remember exact number) in that time and half were 450's and couldnt get all i could sell which is one of the reasons i gave up. Today i went and paid for my new KTM 450 because of GG's lack of one. I'm glad your moving lotsa bikes and would like to know of the 500 how many have made it to consumers.
twowheels
New member
Dearborn isn't but a quick blast up I-75 for you Tom. Better yet, get me directions to a trail where the ambient temperature starts with a 4 and I'll meet you there
HydroDog
Gold Level Site Supporter
+1 on this very simple ranking for new models.
skid jackson
New member
I'll put a word in for using the name "Six Days". Back in the day the six days was the shit! toughest most bad ass thing you could do on a dirtbike. Guaranteed to pummel the rider and bike into the ground. There wasn't any erzberg, romainiacs, Endurocross or anything call "Extreme". Only the baddest toughest mortherfuckenest riders and bikes could make it. I'm of the opinion that the baddest, toughest, motherfuckenest bike gas gas builds should be called the "Six Days". and thats all I got to say!!!
Well except I wouldn't put e start on a 200, small bore 2t's are all about light weight. Imo the weight penalty would hurt more than the e start helps. As a bolt on kit ... sure ... but I doubt they would sell many as I bet the expense would be signifcant.
Well except I wouldn't put e start on a 200, small bore 2t's are all about light weight. Imo the weight penalty would hurt more than the e start helps. As a bolt on kit ... sure ... but I doubt they would sell many as I bet the expense would be signifcant.
einsteingarage
New member
Agreed +1 for this setup
Like Skid said without all the F bombs, maybe an EC - R instead of six days. Full-on bling Extreme Enduro - edition. Ohlins suspension, color annodized bits, etc..
stainlesscycle
Site Sponsor
there is no doubt the six days are great looking.
Clay,
Here are my thoughts on the market (people who are going to buy) and the channel (GasGas supply chain & dealers).
My take on the market...
The more you can appeal to general public off-road rider, the better. What drives their buying? Magazine test coverage, experience with the brand, word of mouth... They need to be convinced it is a good machine for the $. This is all about brand promotion, which you are driving hard. Keep it up!
For now it is easy in most places to ride off-road on public lands with almost any dirt bike that has a spark arrestor & ORV license. With the eco-Nazi agenda that is closing down. More states will require EPA compliance for an ORV license to ride public lands. Take a page from the snowmobile book and show that an injected 2T is as clean as a 4T. Use this as a marketing lever. While you are at it, make it US FMVSS street legal. I know this will cost big $. You would have to run the numbers to see if this makes sense for you. I love GasGas 2T (I own 2). However, my next motorcycle purchase will be a street legal dual sport. I am waiting to see who will offer an injected 2T, with the expectation of a street legal 2T to follow.
My take on the channel...
FIrst, both dealers I bought my bikes from are gone.
GasGas is small and slow to respond to orders. I waited 5 months to get my 06 full Euro EC300 imported from Spain.
Offer a base XC version as low cost as possible. This is your entry level price point. Dealers can offer the add-ons to make profit. The dealers need to make money.
Offer a high end 6D dedicated to the hard core competitive type. You have lots of input on that.
The fewer variants makes the inventory management easier. It makes it more likely that a dealer will be able to provide the full GasGas offering when the customer walks in ready to buy. Most customers dont wait like me. Further, model simplification reduces the channel inventory exposure.
In the future years offer a street legal 2T, provided you can make money doing it.
Finally, a big thanks to you and to GoFasters!
Here are my thoughts on the market (people who are going to buy) and the channel (GasGas supply chain & dealers).
My take on the market...
The more you can appeal to general public off-road rider, the better. What drives their buying? Magazine test coverage, experience with the brand, word of mouth... They need to be convinced it is a good machine for the $. This is all about brand promotion, which you are driving hard. Keep it up!
For now it is easy in most places to ride off-road on public lands with almost any dirt bike that has a spark arrestor & ORV license. With the eco-Nazi agenda that is closing down. More states will require EPA compliance for an ORV license to ride public lands. Take a page from the snowmobile book and show that an injected 2T is as clean as a 4T. Use this as a marketing lever. While you are at it, make it US FMVSS street legal. I know this will cost big $. You would have to run the numbers to see if this makes sense for you. I love GasGas 2T (I own 2). However, my next motorcycle purchase will be a street legal dual sport. I am waiting to see who will offer an injected 2T, with the expectation of a street legal 2T to follow.
My take on the channel...
FIrst, both dealers I bought my bikes from are gone.
GasGas is small and slow to respond to orders. I waited 5 months to get my 06 full Euro EC300 imported from Spain.
Offer a base XC version as low cost as possible. This is your entry level price point. Dealers can offer the add-ons to make profit. The dealers need to make money.
Offer a high end 6D dedicated to the hard core competitive type. You have lots of input on that.
The fewer variants makes the inventory management easier. It makes it more likely that a dealer will be able to provide the full GasGas offering when the customer walks in ready to buy. Most customers dont wait like me. Further, model simplification reduces the channel inventory exposure.
In the future years offer a street legal 2T, provided you can make money doing it.
Finally, a big thanks to you and to GoFasters!
blitz11
Silver Level Site Supporter
Well said, Eric K. I was thinking along those lines, too.
Part of this is that everyone has to make a living doing this. In these times, it isn't easy. Your model seems to fit the bill pretty well.
If a bike sits for a while, the dealer eats a ton on interest. (I used to work at dealer in high school, about 30 years ago. My big lessons were inventory and interest.)
A dealer can stock a lower-priced bike, and also stock some "bling." The average customer can pick and choose what "bling" makes sense for his bike. Someone mentioned the E-start kit. That makes much sense, too. I don't need as large of a mix of bikes, but if someone wants E-start, they can have it the next day. Again, the financial burden on the dealer is much lower. They stock fewer bikes, move inventory, and can still meet their customer demands. No one ends up sitting on 4 year old bikes.
The bigger question is suspension. I have no idea of the cost differential between 45, 48, 50, and 53 mm forks, or the differences in triple clamps needed to swap one for the other. That may factor pretty heavily into this.
The other factor is appearance. If I buy a lower priced bike that LOOKS like the expensive (i.e., SD) bike, do I feel better, but does the guy who paid more for the SD bike feel cheated? I don't know sales volumes for each category, but why not make ALL the bikes look sexy? If the SD looks good, make them all look like SD. We are a fickle society. Looks do matter.
I didn't know Tenneco owned Marzocchi. I found that pretty interesting. An American Company owning an Italian manufacturer whose equipment is on a Spanish motorcycle.
I'll shut up now.
blitz
Part of this is that everyone has to make a living doing this. In these times, it isn't easy. Your model seems to fit the bill pretty well.
If a bike sits for a while, the dealer eats a ton on interest. (I used to work at dealer in high school, about 30 years ago. My big lessons were inventory and interest.)
A dealer can stock a lower-priced bike, and also stock some "bling." The average customer can pick and choose what "bling" makes sense for his bike. Someone mentioned the E-start kit. That makes much sense, too. I don't need as large of a mix of bikes, but if someone wants E-start, they can have it the next day. Again, the financial burden on the dealer is much lower. They stock fewer bikes, move inventory, and can still meet their customer demands. No one ends up sitting on 4 year old bikes.
The bigger question is suspension. I have no idea of the cost differential between 45, 48, 50, and 53 mm forks, or the differences in triple clamps needed to swap one for the other. That may factor pretty heavily into this.
The other factor is appearance. If I buy a lower priced bike that LOOKS like the expensive (i.e., SD) bike, do I feel better, but does the guy who paid more for the SD bike feel cheated? I don't know sales volumes for each category, but why not make ALL the bikes look sexy? If the SD looks good, make them all look like SD. We are a fickle society. Looks do matter.
I didn't know Tenneco owned Marzocchi. I found that pretty interesting. An American Company owning an Italian manufacturer whose equipment is on a Spanish motorcycle.
I'll shut up now.
blitz
Clay
Banned
Rick,
You made a good point that I had not considered on the "custom" bike thing. I had not even thought about the difficulty of ordering spares for a custom bike.
Thanks!
Clay
Bryan
Gold Level Site Supporter
If you have to drop the front and rear headlights for EPA reasons, please have them factory wired so it is plug and play to add the lights front and rear. I don't like having to hack a wiring system just to add lights. The lights are needed around here for the trails just for safety. Please make the headlight and tail light systems readily available with the correct connectors on them so we can get them from you and add easily.
Clay
Banned
Jeffro,
You do realize that full Ohlins add $3000 to the price of a bike, right? You still have to buy the 48mm Sachs forks and THEN add the Ohlins TTX kit. That's the main reason why the Nambo is so expensive. You'd be looking at an $11k bike.
I'm already worried about the race model being in the mid $8k range against the KTM at $8k.
Clay
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