Opinion of Changes to US GG line for 2012

[jeffs2200]

Jeff,
Good idea. Should it be a Race version or a standard?
Clay

I would say if you bring in both models of 200 have the xc with estart and race without. People who buy the race are more worried about weight and performance vs the xc.

If you had a 200 setup with estart and a Rekluse and took it to events where women could demo ride it you could sell a bunch of them.

As far a suspension goes I look for the Zoke forks to improve quite a bit over the coming years. The way I understand it they were bought by the company who makes Monroe shocks and have a lot more capital for r&d. They are supposed to have some new 53mm works forks out that would be awesome on the nambotin or in the hardparts catalog.

What about the option to custom order a bike from the factory. I know Beta was trying something like this for a while.

 

[dank]

I don't give a rip about four strokes. If GG is going to sell them, that Yamaha powered 250 seems okay. The big one is a pile though (my opinion). I wouldn't bother. Maybe buy someone else's engine for that too. Not that it matters to me.

maybe husaberg(ish) and figure out a way to put a frickin kick start on it......call me paranoid but i dont like the idea of estart only. but i agree. no fourstrokes doesnt bother me one little bit.

 

[Clay]

I would say if you bring in both models of 200 have the xc with estart and race without. People who buy the race are more worried about weight and performance vs the xc.

If you had a 200 setup with estart and a Rekluse and took it to events where women could demo ride it you could sell a bunch of them.

As far a suspension goes I look for the Zoke forks to improve quite a bit over the coming years. The way I understand it they were bought by the company who makes Monroe shocks and have a lot more capital for r&d. They are supposed to have some new 53mm works forks out that would be awesome on the nambotin or in the hardparts catalog.

What about the option to custom order a bike from the factory. I know Beta was trying something like this for a while.

Honestly, the custom order thing scares me to death! With the differences in languages, it is incredibly hard to get major things done with the factory. Getting a specific bike correct for the customer would be logistical nightmare. One mistake on the bike and I would have to eat it.

 

[Clay]

I don't give a rip about four strokes. If GG is going to sell them, that Yamaha powered 250 seems okay. The big one is a pile though (my opinion). I wouldn't bother. Maybe buy someone else's engine for that too. Not that it matters to me.

maybe husaberg(ish) and figure out a way to put a frickin kick start on it......call me paranoid but i dont like the idea of estart only. but i agree. no fourstrokes doesnt bother me one little bit.

I keep hearing that sentiment expressed over and over. Seems like a lot of guys are going back the 2T route. The other companies have loads of 450s running out of their ears. It may be two or three years before that pipeline is cleared out. KTM has brought in a ton of 350SXFs and now in January they are bringing in another ton of 350XCFs. A lot of guys thought that the 390 Berg was going to be THE 4T but it was underpowered. When we were in New England for the Maine national enduro, Robbie Jenks rode a 350SXF set up for the woods. He said it was light but didn't have enough motor. Now I know that was RJ who is a great rider but I don't think the 350 is the answer. My point is, there may be more 4Ts that don't sell on the market. I think the current management at Gas Gas is dedicated to making the GG a front runner in the 2T market. Personally, I like that!
Clay

 

[einsteingarage]

One mistake on the bike and I would have to eat it.


And Clay you are already eating crawfish and lobster.........wait that is another thread.


may be silly question but why a standard and e-start?

Why not just an e-start and if you want to remove it you could?



I also think 2-strokes will make a huge come back. As far as the 4 strokes, well people used to think tight polyester pants with bell bottoms on guys were cool.

 

[bchatt]

Honestly, the custom order thing scares me to death! With the differences in languages, it is incredibly hard to get major things done with the factory. Getting a specific bike correct for the customer would be logistical nightmare. One mistake on the bike and I would have to eat it.

Just thinking aloud here - wouldn't it be cool if you could go into your local dealer and order your new bike, and at the time run through a bunch of tick boxes and choose exactly what you want ( estart yes/no, zoke/sachs/ohlinsttx, wave rotors - you get what I mean). The national distributor just "finishes off" the "almost built up" imported bike to the customers desire and fires it off to the dealer. Of course, this only takes a day or so and costs bugger all! While I'm dreaming, I'd like to see individual suspension setup/valving supplied always as part of the new bike deal (could be derived from the same checksheet).
Imagine the level of purchaser satisfaction!
Now, where was I ...Oh yeah...back to work....

 

[Clay]

One mistake on the bike and I would have to eat it.


And Clay you are already eating crawfish and lobster.........wait that is another thread.


may be silly question but why a standard and e-start?

Why not just an e-start and if you want to remove it you could?



I also think 2-strokes will make a huge come back. As far as the 4 strokes, well people used to think tight polyester pants with bell bottoms on guys were cool.

LOL! The threads are all running together, aren't they!
Mainly a standard as an entry level unit. We kept the e start at $100 under the KTM price. The Race model would be quite a bit more. It's possible the standard would be $1000 under the Race. But, hey...that's why I'm asking all of this. Do we need the standard? It wasn't a silly question.
Did you wear pants like that? I never did!
Clay

 

[Clay]

Just thinking aloud here - wouldn't it be cool if you could go into your local dealer and order your new bike, and at the time run through a bunch of tick boxes and choose exactly what you want ( estart yes/no, zoke/sachs/ohlinsttx, wave rotors - you get what I mean). The national distributor just "finishes off" the "almost built up" imported bike to the customers desire and fires it off to the dealer. Of course, this only takes a day or so and costs bugger all! While I'm dreaming, I'd like to see individual suspension setup/valving supplied always as part of the new bike deal (could be derived from the same checksheet).
Imagine the level of purchaser satisfaction!
Now, where was I ...Oh yeah...back to work....

Barry,
A couple of us (sales guys) actually pushed this concept at KTM for awhile and got tired of beating our heads against the wall. I do think it has merit. We order the bike from GG without tires, handlebars, rotors, rear sprocket, chain, exhaust, etc. It comes in here at a lower price than a complete bike. We would also valve and spring the unit based on the customer's weight and speed and the type of riding he does. The customer tells us what he wants and chooses the dealer it goes through.
That's maybe 5 years down the road for us, at best!
Clay

 

[Boomhauer]

Well here is my Redneck response to this.

K.I.S.S.
KEEP IT SIMPLE STUPID

I say do 2 versions of the "Race" model one with e-start and one without.

 

[REVERUP]

Well here is my Redneck response to this.

K.I.S.S.
KEEP IT SIMPLE STUPID

I say do 2 versions of the "Race" model one with e-start and one without.

Well my neck is looking pretty red because I echo that response.

Roscoe

 

[moto9]

I think some questions need to answered before anyone could offer focused opinions.
But glad you asked...you must plan to to make some improvements.

1) First question I would ask is: what percentage of the U.S. market share do you/GG plan to compete for...now and in the future.

2) How much effort is GG willing to put into improving their staple models.

As you may well know KTM did an awesome job "listening" to the public voice and making vast improvements thru the years, they have one hell of a bike in their 300, it's very well built, love the ability to easily change the PV spring and for 2011 they made some great changes again in the XC.
I'd like to see GG do the same things and become the bike that it should be.

I only ask because as much as I love my 08 300 their is much I would like to see changed...you must have consumer confidence in the product before you can market anything well.
GG EC's surely has some short comings that really should be addressed and I think we all can offer up suggestions...who better to ask then us who ride, race and work on them.
Great starting package...but needs some refinements

Here's my short list just for starters.
1) suspension, Marz and sachs, as good as they are and could be when revalved the fact is...the internals are mostly a mystery and parts are difficult to find...I'd like to see GG switch to kyb's or showa's
2) fit and finish is lacking in a lot of areas, things like how the shrouds mount to the gas tank, nuts on the back side of bolts...instead of frame mounts. Using too many of those slip-on nuts, sloppy brake lever mount, stronger foot peg mounts, quit using every nut and bolt head size known to man...slim it down to 8,10,12,14,17,19...etc, figure out why the clutch is so squawky when under a load, smooth out the shifting, separate the rear fender from the side panels.
I may be whining or I've had too many Hondas in the past.
Lastly, get the parts availability to more then one vendor...like Bike Bandit and/or motosports outlet, TR Parts unlimited...I can tell you my experience with Bike Bandit, they have it together!
Nothing against GF but I'd like to see more than one option.
One thing I do love about my GG is how tough it has been...I hammer the hell out of it on a weekly basis and had not a lick of problems, nor a break down.
Here in Hawaii we ride long rocky river beds, flowing water or not, nasty tight jungle conditions and the bike has performed way better than expected.
Just my 2 cents worth.

 

[Boomhauer]

I think some questions need to answered before anyone could offer focused opinions.
But glad you asked...you must plan to to make some improvements.

1) First question I would ask is: what percentage of the U.S. market share do you/GG plan to compete for...now and in the future.

2) How much effort is GG willing to put into improving their staple models.

I only ask because as much as I love my 08 300 their is much I would like to see changed...you must have consumer confidence in the product before you can market anything well.
GG EC's surely has some short comings that really should be addressed and I think we all can offer up suggestions...who better to ask then us who ride, race and work on them.
Great starting package...but needs some refinements

Here's my short list just for starters.
1) suspension, Marz and sachs, as good as they are and could be when revalved the fact is...the internals are mostly a mystery and parts are difficult to find...I'd like to see GG switch to kyb's or showa's
2) fit and finish is lacking in a lot of areas, things like how the shrouds mount to the gas tank, nuts on the back side of bolts...instead of frame mounts. Using too many of those slip-on nuts, sloppy brake lever mount, stronger foot peg mounts, quit using every nut and bolt head size known to man...slim it down to 8,10,12,14,17,19...etc, figure out why the clutch is so squawky when under a load, smooth out the shifting, separate the rear fender from the side panels.
I may be whining or I've had too many Hondas in the past.
Lastly, get the parts availability to more then one vendor...like Bike Bandit and/or motosports outlet.
Nothing against GF but I'd like to see more than one option.
Just my 2 cents worth.

Moto there are several options for parts. Look at all of the banner's. Plenty of places to get the "Good Stuff" I choose www.smithspowersports.com

Try changing your oil over to Rotella 15 40.
This worked for both of my gassers.

The Zook forks are awesome. Les at LTR works magic on them. Wish my Berg had them!

Fit and finish has always been an issue but they are getting better and better at it each new model.

 

[GasGas]

Nuts on the back side of bolts Is by far the biggest short coming on the GG bikes. From the linkage on up. Far to many bolts that require 2 tools to remove or tighten. That and the new air box is too wide at the knees.

 

[MattR]

Keep it simple and strive for the "best-in-class" with 3 models.
175, 250, and 300 race editions:
Standard features include kickstart, good suspension, steering damper, skid plate, 3 gallon tank, and spark arrestor. Market it as a race-ready bike that 2T lovers would build for themselves but don't have to.

Yes 175... 150's are common place now and the 200 is nice but still an oddity. Why not be unique and make the ultimate singletrack weapon "175".

Options available as dealer installs:
E-start kit
heavy or lighter weight flywheel/ignitions
Ohlins TTX suspension
Rekluse auto clutch
Front/rear light kit
Other GG hardparts catalog items (handguards, radiator guards, etc..)

With the push for increased GG dealers in the US, we really need to motivate GG customers to feel "connected" to their dealers. Make the bike buying experience more intimate and you will have more devoted GG riders. Published dealer install options will raise product awareness and help increase profit margins.

Folks turn to GG because they want something unique. They don't want 50 flavors of the same bike. They pay their hard earned money for a premium bike and the "race model" symbolizes this.

 

[AZRickD]

If GasGasRider ever feels the need to have a KTMTalk-like "Which Gas Gas Should I Buy?", you'll know you're going in the wrong direction.

I have been yakking at a few people recently about this very topic. Some of the suspension out of the box (Race, SixDays) is too stiff for most. We had a local AA racer who loved the stiff 2009 250Race suspension. Strangely, it came with the heavy 2k3 ignition so he swapped it out for the 2k2. Now we have a fast, 210+ 30A racer who thinks the 2011 Six Days is too stiff, and the bike is so zoomy that he runs it mostly in Rain mode.

I would tend to drop the Race, unless it is marketed to the truly swift who would benefit from that kind of stiffage. I'd pay Les Tinius a handsome consulting fee to talk some sense into the Spaniards that haven't learned their lesson in all these years.

As far at the 2T v 4T debate, in Arizona, (off-road) 2Ts have been in 4+ years of resurgence. It is the dominant engine type in all but the AA/A ranks.

 

[hudson_hollow]

I've ridden Gas Gas since 2004 and have owned three. I'm still not sure which models have which equipment, so simpler would seem reasonable to me.
Also, someone mentioned putting estart on all and letting us take them off if we want to. Personally, I don't want estart and don't want to pay for something I don't want and don't want to have to remove it either. It just makes sense to offer the estart as an option.
I'm on the 2T only side of this argument. Everyone makes a decent 4T nowdays. Gas Gas should keep it's niche market and refine it.
Of course, I would like to see the 300 quad brought back. With proper promotion, they would offer sport quad riders a different choice. I love mine. They will never reach the volume of bikes, but there is a small niche market there to be exploited by someone.
Also, I would like to see Gas Gas listed again in Parts Unlimited and other aftermarket distributors. Parts being readily available and the customer being given a choice is a big sales advantage. That's what everyone ask me first. Where do you get parts for that thing?
Asking questions and trying to get customer input into the product is a giant leap in the right direction. A good salesman has one mouth and two ears.

 

[gasgasman]

Consumers are a fickle bunch.
It's fine to request that the bikes come with lots of aftermarket goodies.
But, when a magazine lists the price of a Gas Gas at $x,xxx and Brand X list their's at $1,000 less, the average consumer will automatically think the Gas Gas is overpriced.

The "build a bear" concept may work, where the selling dealer offers the goodies to the consumer. The consumer can dictate what and how much they can afford.

Just my $0.05

 

[webmaster]

Skidad,
I didn't mention this but I plan to give the factory some recommended valving specs and ask for stiffer springs for fat assed Americans like me.

BTW....I am pretty much opposed to the 50mm Zoke. I think it is waaaay too stiff for the average rider.

I understand that all of the Euro companies are working with direct injection. I have hopes that we may one day have a EPA compliant two stroke although, getting them approved by the EPA is very expensive.

Clay

Hi Clay,
I think you should double check your numbers on the zoke forks - from what I know they are available in 45mm and 50mm - not 48mm for off-road - the sachs forks being 48mm confused things a bit I think. When you get to the 50mm zoke - you have open chamber and twin chamber internals available. The 50mm twin chamber zoke is preferred and is not "stiffer" than the 45 when set up right. It uses the same internals as the 45mm. So you should put that out of your mind and move into the 21st century...

I have 45mm open chamber zokes on a trail bike of mine and 50mm twin chamber zokes on my husky 510 - both feel great to me after valved properly and I am a slow A rider who "prefers soft".

The 50mm zoke has a thicker wall at the bottom triple clamp so that owners have less of a chance of deforming the upper fork tube if they over-torque the bottom triple clamp pinch bolts. Also ask GG to drill and tap the bottom clamp using two larger bolts instead of 3 small ones - this will reduce the chance of a user over-torquing the bottom clamp.

And to those asking for showas - the material quality on the euro suspension is much higher than on japanese suspension - both base material, hard coatings and overall design. I would much rather have zokes, sachs or ohlins over showa or kyb.

Jeff

 

[lankydoug]

I only see the need for 3 models #1 enduro #2 cross country #3 motocross. A combination of flywheel, gearing and the electrical capacity to run lots of lights being the variables. Most everyone serious about racing will have their suspension redone to suit themselves so a standard set up that is high quality enough to get working is OK by me. E-Start should be a dealer add on available to all models. Nothing is currently stopping dealers from custom set ups to help make a sale.

+ 1 on who ever said Gofasters needs some competition. I got a shifter pin and spring for $10 (not terrible but worth $5 tops) entire package weighed 4 oz. shipping was $13 for slow ground.. OUCH! $5 part is now $23. Got a skid plate the same week in a postal envelope from someone else, shipping $3 and it took 2 less days to get it from further away. I don't want this to sound like a rant but Husky has more big dealers and it's not like this when ordering parts for a Husky.

 

[victorykid]

Clay and Everyone........I'm just an "old dirt rider"(and new guy to this forum) wanting to get back to the dirt ! I always rode 2T's (Bultaco's mostly) and I've pretty much decided on a new 200. I understand they will be in country soon (2011's) and I'd love to see it have E-start. But, if the option isn't too expensive and I can handle kickstarting (like I did in my early days) that would be ok too. I'm hanging around here trying to learn as much as I can before I purchase my GG and I appreciate all the help and enthusiasm from you all. I just wish there was a closer dealer to me. Clay, I know you're working hard to make that happen.....Thank you. I feel that most riders (and Dealers too) know what we need and I certainly plan on supporting the Gas Gas cult !!! Tom