Opinion of Changes to US GG line for 2012

[Clay]

I am liking the XC, XC-E and XC-R names for 2012 models.

Another thought would be to name them CCs like they do in the UK.

CC, CC-E and CC-R would be good names to differentiate from KTM.

I like the XC, XC-E and XC-R thing, too.
We just trademarked the XC name in the US.

 

[Clay]

I dont quite understand why the 450 gets left out. I was a dealer for a couple years and sold 16-17 bikes (dont remember exact number) in that time and half were 450's and couldnt get all i could sell which is one of the reasons i gave up. Today i went and paid for my new KTM 450 because of GG's lack of one. I'm glad your moving lotsa bikes and would like to know of the 500 how many have made it to consumers.

Nick,
When you were selling GG, there was a shortage of 450s. Now every brand has a 450, from Beta to Yamaha, except for GG. KTM dealers have a lot of non-current inventory and most of it is in big cc four strokes. A couple of months ago there was a Yamaha dealer in New England advertising 2009 WR450s for $4995. We can't compete with those prices. When the pipeline gets cleaned out some, we will bring the 450 into the US. I bet you got a great deal on that 450 KTM. If you didn't, you didn't shop around here in the east because you can buy them at cost.
We are bringing in around 500 by the time the year is out. We have only shipped about 275 units. Of those, 46 are on a truck now. Of the remaining units, we have retailed just under 100 units. The first 2 containers were 2010s and 2011s with Sachs suspension. Those units have been the slowest to retail. We shipped 6D and E Start models in early November and those units have been retailing quickly.
What else you want to know?
Also, we need a NV dealer. When you gonna come back?
Clay

 

[Skidad]

I'm already worried about the race model being in the mid $8k range against the KTM at $8k.
Clay

The price for the new KTM 350XCF (yes XCF) is 9K Not sure what the 250 is priced at yet.

Cools bikes

FI
6 speeds wide ratio trannies
LINKAGE rear suspension
18" wheel
2.5 gallon tanks
kick and e-start
kickstand
168 watt generator on the 350

 

[Vindicator]

Jeffro,
You do realize that full Ohlins add $3000 to the price of a bike, right? You still have to buy the 48mm Sachs forks and THEN add the Ohlins TTX kit. That's the main reason why the Nambo is so expensive. You'd be looking at an $11k bike.
Clay

Ohlins lunched, finaly, a new set of complete forks, might be the answer...

http://www.befurious.com/ohlins-vuelve-a-fabricar-horquillas-de-off-road-tras-tres-anos-analizamos-toda-su-gama/

Sorry, only in spanish.

Jeffro,
I'm already worried about the race model being in the mid $8k range against the KTM at $8k.
Clay

Yes but KTM's is striped of any extras/bling, GG Race model could make a difference here . If they are able to improve quality control and solve some of the annoying details you have a winner.

 

[Clay]

I'll put a word in for using the name "Six Days". Back in the day the six days was the shit! toughest most bad ass thing you could do on a dirtbike. Guaranteed to pummel the rider and bike into the ground. There wasn't any erzberg, romainiacs, Endurocross or anything call "Extreme". Only the baddest toughest mortherfuckenest riders and bikes could make it. I'm of the opinion that the baddest, toughest, motherfuckenest bike gas gas builds should be called the "Six Days". and thats all I got to say!!!

Well except I wouldn't put e start on a 200, small bore 2t's are all about light weight. Imo the weight penalty would hurt more than the e start helps. As a bolt on kit ... sure ... but I doubt they would sell many as I bet the expense would be signifcant.

Skid....key words there in your email: Back in the day...
The GNCC kids and younger generations don't place as much emphasis on the 6D as you and I do. Everyone understands that Race is the higher end model.
When my son was going from a KTM 105 to a bigger bike, I put him on a 250 E start because the biggest problem a short guy has is starting a bike that is a little bit too big, especially when he's stuck on the side of a hill. That's the main reason I would consider an e start 200. The 200 Race would not have e start.

 

[Clay]

there is no doubt the six days are great looking.

Have you guys seen the Mexico Six Days graphics on the KTM? They look bad. The red, green and white Mexican colors look bad on the KTM orange. They looked good on the Gas Gas. Gotta remember that it's just a matter of time before the 6Ds is in a country with national colors that look bad against the GG.
See, guys.....I'm thinking down the road 5 years!!!! LOL!!!
Clay

 

[Clay]

Clay,

Here are my thoughts on the market (people who are going to buy) and the channel (GasGas supply chain & dealers).


My take on the market...

The more you can appeal to general public off-road rider, the better. What drives their buying? Magazine test coverage, experience with the brand, word of mouth... They need to be convinced it is a good machine for the $. This is all about brand promotion, which you are driving hard. Keep it up!

For now it is easy in most places to ride off-road on public lands with almost any dirt bike that has a spark arrestor & ORV license. With the eco-Nazi agenda that is closing down. More states will require EPA compliance for an ORV license to ride public lands. Take a page from the snowmobile book and show that an injected 2T is as clean as a 4T. Use this as a marketing lever. While you are at it, make it US FMVSS street legal. I know this will cost big $. You would have to run the numbers to see if this makes sense for you. I love GasGas 2T (I own 2). However, my next motorcycle purchase will be a street legal dual sport. I am waiting to see who will offer an injected 2T, with the expectation of a street legal 2T to follow.


My take on the channel...

FIrst, both dealers I bought my bikes from are gone.

GasGas is small and slow to respond to orders. I waited 5 months to get my 06 full Euro EC300 imported from Spain.

Offer a base XC version as low cost as possible. This is your entry level price point. Dealers can offer the add-ons to make profit. The dealers need to make money.

Offer a high end 6D dedicated to the hard core competitive type. You have lots of input on that.

The fewer variants makes the inventory management easier. It makes it more likely that a dealer will be able to provide the full GasGas offering when the customer walks in ready to buy. Most customers dont wait like me. Further, model simplification reduces the channel inventory exposure.

In the future years offer a street legal 2T, provided you can make money doing it.


Finally, a big thanks to you and to GoFasters!

Eric,
First....thanks for the kind words. The encouragement is appreciated.
Second....I, too, look forward to a street legal/EPA compliant 2T. One concern I have is the cost. Not the cost from the factory but the cost to go through the EPA testing. I'm told $50k for one model family PLUS the additional cost on the permeation tank liner. Plus whatever additional expense we have from the factory for DI (if any). If we bring in 500 units (200/250/300 family) that adds $1k to the cost of the bikes. I think that may be acceptable to the US consumer. Maybe not. But that's something I have to consider in the business.
Third....this ain't 06 anymore! Hopefully we're responding a little quicker now although dealer orders have far exceeded my initial expectations.
Fourth....I agree that we should always have an entry level unit.
Fifth....Simplicity is easier for the factory. They already dislike the fact that we have a different VIN system than the rest of the world. If we are a big enough customer, they will get over those issues. But the point is, the more bikes are the same, within reason, the easier it is for dealers to supply parts and for the factory to build bikes economically. But not everybody wants the same bike. That was the whole point of this thread in the first place. All of you guys have given me good input and I appreciate it!
Clay

 

[Clay]

Well said, Eric K. I was thinking along those lines, too.

Part of this is that everyone has to make a living doing this. In these times, it isn't easy. Your model seems to fit the bill pretty well.

If a bike sits for a while, the dealer eats a ton on interest. (I used to work at dealer in high school, about 30 years ago. My big lessons were inventory and interest.)

A dealer can stock a lower-priced bike, and also stock some "bling." The average customer can pick and choose what "bling" makes sense for his bike. Someone mentioned the E-start kit. That makes much sense, too. I don't need as large of a mix of bikes, but if someone wants E-start, they can have it the next day. Again, the financial burden on the dealer is much lower. They stock fewer bikes, move inventory, and can still meet their customer demands. No one ends up sitting on 4 year old bikes.

The bigger question is suspension. I have no idea of the cost differential between 45, 48, 50, and 53 mm forks, or the differences in triple clamps needed to swap one for the other. That may factor pretty heavily into this.

The other factor is appearance. If I buy a lower priced bike that LOOKS like the expensive (i.e., SD) bike, do I feel better, but does the guy who paid more for the SD bike feel cheated? I don't know sales volumes for each category, but why not make ALL the bikes look sexy? If the SD looks good, make them all look like SD. We are a fickle society. Looks do matter.

I didn't know Tenneco owned Marzocchi. I found that pretty interesting. An American Company owning an Italian manufacturer whose equipment is on a Spanish motorcycle.

I'll shut up now.

blitz

One of my questions for the factory is the cost of that suspension to us. That will help me make the decisions for this discussion.
How about Germand BMW owning Italian Husky? I chuckle every time I think of the clash in those cultures!

 

[Clay]

If you have to drop the front and rear headlights for EPA reasons, please have them factory wired so it is plug and play to add the lights front and rear. I don't like having to hack a wiring system just to add lights. The lights are needed around here for the trails just for safety. Please make the headlight and tail light systems readily available with the correct connectors on them so we can get them from you and add easily.

Bryan,
I always want the bikes to come with a headlight. If I can get the Race model I want, it will still have a headlight but will have a number plate in the crate for the guy who wants to take the headlight off.
Clay

 

[Clay]

The price for the new KTM 350XCF (yes XCF) is 9K Not sure what the 250 is priced at yet.

Cools bikes

FI
6 speeds wide ratio trannies
LINKAGE rear suspension
18" wheel
2.5 gallon tanks
kick and e-start
kickstand
168 watt generator on the 350

Skidad,
The last 2 years I was at KTM, I was handling Husaberg sales. I think the $9k mark is over the threshold for most off road guys. I heard that a lot. Plus the HB 390 dissappointed a lot of guys. It wasn't strong enough. Robbie Jenks rode a converted 350SXF back in August and said it was like a hopped up 250 but still didn't have enough motor.
I have another point to make......
When is the offroad guy going to get pissed at KTM because he is subsidizing the MX buyer? Why is the XCF $500 higher than the SXF? Why is the 150SX $6299 and the 150XC $6999? The 250SX $6699 and the 250 XC $7799??!!! That's an $1100 difference!!!! Why? Because the off road guy is older and has more money and will pay more. When is the KTM offroad guy going to get tired of subsidizing the cost off Roger Decoster and his tattooed spoiled MX kids?
Sorry...I got up on my soap box!
Clay

 

[ScottyR]

I like the XC, XC-E and XC-R thing, too.
We just trademarked the XC name in the US.

JEB is gonna blow a nut when he finds out.

As mentioned, most young guys that are in the GNCC crowd dont know/dont care about the 6 Days. Call them "RACE" or "XC-R" models because they understand that. We need to bring young, new blood into the fold if the brand is going to prosper.

 

[Clay]

Ohlins lunched, finaly, a new set of complete forks, might be the answer...

http://www.befurious.com/ohlins-vuelve-a-fabricar-horquillas-de-off-road-tras-tres-anos-analizamos-toda-su-gama/

Sorry, only in spanish.



Yes but KTM's is striped of any extras/bling, GG Race model could make a difference here . If they are able to improve quality control and solve some of the annoying details you have a winner.

Vindicator,
You ain't got a dog in this hunt? Do you know what that means? That's redneck English that means you're in Portugal and we're talking about bikes for the US! Just kidding, ok? I hope you have a sense of humor.
I had heard rumor that Ohlins was working on a complete fork again so that may help. And you are also correct that KTM has taken off the headlight and spark arrestor and does not have the 6D bling that we have. However, if we start taking some of their business, they will react and begin adding those items.
Thank you for you input. It is appreciated too.
Clay

 

[Jeffro]

Jeffro,
You do realize that full Ohlins add $3000 to the price of a bike, right? You still have to buy the 48mm Sachs forks and THEN add the Ohlins TTX kit. That's the main reason why the Nambo is so expensive. You'd be looking at an $11k bike.
I'm already worried about the race model being in the mid $8k range against the KTM at $8k.
Clay

In that case maybe full ohlins doesn't make sense, if the cost makes it prohibitive for 99% of your customers. I guess my point was to provide a clear model lineup for target customers while minimizing overlap, avoiding confusion.

If customers are being asked to pay twice for an upgraded fork (sachs 48mm to ohlins) then maybe it makes sense to skip the premium model altogether and offer a strong powerparts catalog instead.

 

[Clay]

In that case maybe full ohlins doesn't make sense, if the cost makes it prohibitive for 99% of your customers. I guess my point was to provide a clear model lineup for target customers while minimizing overlap, avoiding confusion.

If customers are being asked to pay twice for an upgraded fork (sachs 48mm to ohlins) then maybe it makes sense to skip the premium model altogether and offer a strong powerparts catalog instead.

I think it would be better to offer the 48mm Zoke fork and offer the TTX upgrade in the PP Catalog like Mark at GF is doing now.
Thanks for the input!
Clay

 

[Brian]

Second....I, too, look forward to a street legal/EPA compliant 2T. One concern I have is the cost. Not the cost from the factory but the cost to go through the EPA testing. I'm told $50k for one model family PLUS the additional cost on the permeation tank liner. Plus whatever additional expense we have from the factory for DI (if any). If we bring in 500 units (200/250/300 family) that adds $1k to the cost of the bikes. I think that may be acceptable to the US consumer. Maybe not. But that's something I have to consider in the business.

You get a street legal 2T I will plink down the cash for it. Till then I don't see myself buying a newer Gas Gas. I may try and pick up a plate 4stroke to add to the stable, probably used.

 

[roostafish]

In concept I like the street legality idea, but for most of the country it isn't needed for trail riding, or enduro. That being the case, adding $1000 to the price of a bike (assuming a non street legal bike is not available) is a waste for those who don't need it.

 

[Bryan]

In concept I like the street legality idea, but for most of the country it isn't needed for trail riding, or enduro. That being the case, adding $1000 to the price of a bike (assuming a non street legal bike is not available) is a waste for those who don't need it.

An easily available factory kit would be desireable to many. Not that I want to ride it on the roads. But I want a license plate to keep some over zealous forest service or LEO from ticketing me for being on a forest service road for a short period of time to get back to a trail.

 

[Clay]

An easily available factory kit would be desireable to many. Not that I want to ride it on the roads. But I want a license plate to keep some over zealous forest service or LEO from ticketing me for being on a forest service road for a short period of time to get back to a trail.

This may be a good time to explain the EPA street legal issue....
Gas Gas motorcycles (and all two strokes) and non street legal four strokes are brought into the US under an off road competition exemption because they do not meet the EPA emissions requirements. Our bikes are in no way, no how meant to be put on the road. We can't offer a kit of any kind that allows the customer to skirt the street legal issue. There are serious fines associated with breaking those laws. Gas Gas Offroad US does not in any way, shape or form suggest that our bikes can be used on road or legally in National or State Forests where street legal bikes are required. Basically, an OEM or distributor can't straddle the fence here. You have to be full street legal approved OR exempt because the bike is an off road competition only unit. Offering any kind of kit without meeting the EPA emissions requirements would jeopardize our off road exemption and, in effect, close our business. The license plate issue is the same, from our perspective, as the EPA emissions. Sorry to be so blunt but we MUST take this position to remain in business.
Clay

 

[Bryan]

This may be a good time to explain the EPA street legal issue....
Gas Gas motorcycles (and all two strokes) and non street legal four strokes are brought into the US under an off road competition exemption because they do not meet the EPA emissions requirements. Our bikes are in no way, no how meant to be put on the road. We can't offer a kit of any kind that allows the customer to skirt the street legal issue. There are serious fines associated with breaking those laws. Gas Gas Offroad US does not in any way, shape or form suggest that our bikes can be used on road or legally in National or State Forests where street legal bikes are required. Basically, an OEM or distributor can't straddle the fence here. You have to be full street legal approved OR exempt because the bike is an off road competition only unit. Offering any kind of kit without meeting the EPA emissions requirements would jeopardize our off road exemption and, in effect, close our business. The license plate issue is the same, from our perspective, as the EPA emissions. Sorry to be so blunt but we MUST take this position to remain in business.
Clay

Understood. Let's hope that some day they do meet the requirements. With all the enviromangleist around here on a push to shut down all off road riding areas, the need for a street legal off road bike is coming more than ever.

 

[nhrider]

My ETEC snowmobile has been sitting since March and it started with one good pull on the pull rope. Ran and idle like I just put it away. It would be so awesome if a dirt bike could do that...