CACTUSREID
New member
the people at gagas headquarters should be reading between the lines and taking in what this post and thread has to offer?
Ranting and raving..
- Thread starter Jakobi
- Start date
Jakobi
Super Moderator
Having access to a 15 model to look at, probe, and ride.. I will say that there indeed have been refinements made from the 13.
..I don't even think the 13 is a bad thing! I was just having a rant after a few long days, and a few more 'things' to add to the list of 'things to do'.
..I don't even think the 13 is a bad thing! I was just having a rant after a few long days, and a few more 'things' to add to the list of 'things to do'.
swazi_matt
Active member
It is not a big job to put the WR gearbox into the yz. In South Africa most yamaha dealers sell a yz250 with WR conversion. It was the same price as my GG when I baught it (converted gearbox, weighted flywheel revalved suspension with Enduro protection) and was considering it as an option but glad I didn't. I tested one and even with fww etc it is still an mx bike inside and revs up faster than the GG and breaks traction.
This may be the 250/300 difference and may not be a problem for aggressive riders
rubber Jonny
New member
I still have my 2013 250 same bike as yours, I have similar problems with it. I understand exactily what your getting at.
My bike has had a new friend in the garage since September though............
wait for it........
Yeah its a KTM 300xc 2014
Overall its about as good as the gas gas, some bits better some bits worse.
I wouldn't touch a new gas gas with a barge pole at the moment, financial suicide in the UK, new ones are about ?6500, one year old ?3300. compare that to a KTM ?6800 new year old ?5500 IF you can find someone to buy it, all these rumors have killed gas gas sales here.
My bike has had a new friend in the garage since September though............
wait for it........
Yeah its a KTM 300xc 2014
Overall its about as good as the gas gas, some bits better some bits worse.
I wouldn't touch a new gas gas with a barge pole at the moment, financial suicide in the UK, new ones are about ?6500, one year old ?3300. compare that to a KTM ?6800 new year old ?5500 IF you can find someone to buy it, all these rumors have killed gas gas sales here.
rubber Jonny
New member
The airbox stinks. Same
The shock valving has never been great, and even after several iterations and testing different springs, its still the weak spot. I like mine.
The stock forks ate themselves alive. Enough said. Mine are good, I got the 45 forks.
The seat continues to flog out .Same
The tank was a poor fit that needed work. Mines fine, no problems at all.
The silencer stock looks like a 4 stroke can and needed to be cut down just to stop the drool.my stock exhaust fell apart beyond repair and I had to buy a new one.
The trail tech speedo went spastic Same
The electrical gremlin which I'm trying to sort out that keeps overvolting the system. Something I need as part of being a road registered vehicle. Same
I've had a stator side seal weep that needed to be replaced. No
In addition to all that mine forks and wheels have lost the anodising they have gone grey and look shit, I use the same cleaner on my gas gas as my ktm and beta for years so it cant be the cleaners fault.
The shock valving has never been great, and even after several iterations and testing different springs, its still the weak spot. I like mine.
The stock forks ate themselves alive. Enough said. Mine are good, I got the 45 forks.
The seat continues to flog out .Same
The tank was a poor fit that needed work. Mines fine, no problems at all.
The silencer stock looks like a 4 stroke can and needed to be cut down just to stop the drool.my stock exhaust fell apart beyond repair and I had to buy a new one.
The trail tech speedo went spastic Same
The electrical gremlin which I'm trying to sort out that keeps overvolting the system. Something I need as part of being a road registered vehicle. Same
I've had a stator side seal weep that needed to be replaced. No
In addition to all that mine forks and wheels have lost the anodising they have gone grey and look shit, I use the same cleaner on my gas gas as my ktm and beta for years so it cant be the cleaners fault.
(F5)
Gold Level Site Supporter
Sorry I couldn't think of anything more constructive to add on the over volt thing. I think I have a spare aftermarket rec reg I could send of that would help and insert it direct from stator to DC everything.
Its a bitch when every thing conspires. I jus put the MPro.cable on. With my 07 I had to slide the nipple 8mm -1cm closer to reduce the adjuster near the tank but I have a screw cap pwk yours might be different. Nice cable.
Go hug your wife and young child. Were lucky not to be at war or some such.
Its a bitch when every thing conspires. I jus put the MPro.cable on. With my 07 I had to slide the nipple 8mm -1cm closer to reduce the adjuster near the tank but I have a screw cap pwk yours might be different. Nice cable.
Go hug your wife and young child. Were lucky not to be at war or some such.
Jakobi
Super Moderator
Well said my friend. At the end of the day, its a first world problem. In the light of a new day, after sleeping on it I'm grateful to have such a great place to ride, a bike, and an understanding wifey!
Shouldn't have egged me on Swazii
Cheers for the offer re the reg/rec but no need. I'll get it sussed out in the fullness of time.. I'll do some more testing soon.
Gassers have always had poor resale here in Australia Johnny.. I have never purchased with expectations to move them on at a reasonable price. Bought to ride, and ride for some time! On the bright side, I picked up the GG for considerably more than I could a pumpkin, and since then ktm has hiked another 1000AUD on their already steep prices. Its around 15Grand for a KTM six days, or 11-12 for an EC.
rubber Jonny
New member
They have always had poor resale here too but these recent rumors have really killed it. Thing is here they cost the roughly same as a ktm new. A one year old Gas Gas is the same price as a five year old KTM!!!!!!! My gas gas was 5 months old when I got it and looked brand new. It was still the current model and cost me 3600, new bikes identical to mine were still selling for 6500.
Caravan Monster
New member
As the owner of an older Gas Gas, which is fun to ride, perfectly adequate for my needs and I can keep running for years yet (so long as there is still a parts supply), the current Gas Gas situation leaves me asking questions along the same lines. Do I take the cautious option and try to off load the bike I have, in case spares are no longer be available in the future? Or what about the gambler's choice and buy a year or two old bike with the estart I would like, whilst there is uncertainty and prices are low in the uk? Or just stick with the bike I already own and like?
wrt maintenance, I don't think Gas Gas are any better or worse than any other 2 stroke enduro. It just feels like a right PITA when several items happen to break at the same time.
No tough bikes built after 2000.Between the battles between 2 strokes and 4 strokes and the battles between manufacturers in both the 2t and 4t markets durable and dependability was sacrificed.It basicly came down to weight and performance.Weight, weight , weight people want light bikes.Well at some point you gotta start shaving material to get there.So every component on the bike is designed with weight as the primary.consideration.When you add it all up their is your 3-8 pounds whatever.But you give up the durability to some degree and you add that up and you are gonna have problems.Add performance running on the.razor edge between that which rips and that which has claw hammer dependability and durability.Its over.The bikes from about 86-98 were industructable.We had bikes in those eras that were absolutely abused for years without any love what so ever.I have no interest in buying or owning anything newer then 2000 for all those reasons.You want a rock solid dependable bike get one in that era.Its so much about looks these days its sickening.You can look all over forums these days and youll see picture after picture of the nicest bikes.These guys will modify them throw every bell and whistle you can buy at them, sticker kits and all the matching gear to go with it.The majority of these ridets will blah blah blah about how awesome this mod is and that mod is who did their suspension what flywheel weight is best, steering stabilizers what ever else.Then when you see the ads for the same bikes ridden by these same guys they usually have the same thing in common.A few years old and low hours never raced or abused mostly trail ridden.Many in the under 200 or 300 hour range.The majority of these bikes get ridden 10-20 times a year.Keep in mind one gnarly 3 day ride on a newer bike with all that fancy crap and sticker kits is gonna get tatered.If its rocky, muddy brushy steep terrain expect scratched plastic, scratched rims maybe bent a little broken piece of plastic here and there.Do that enough weekends in a row and expect dented pipes, torn seats, bent bars tweaked bark busters etc etc.Where are the pictures of those bikes.Show me a picture of a woods war horse.A bike that is actually ridden and ridden hard and by somebody that knows how.A guy who leaves no hill climb behind and Ill show you a bike thats been on its side plenty, a bike thats probably tumbled down a hill or two.Add bent subframes etc etc.Now their are degrees between these garage queens that make up the majority of whats out there and hardcore riders.Point I am trying to make is this industry and these manufacturers have market analysts that look at who is buying what and what it is being used for.So build the sexiest looking lightest bike you can with the gnarliest engine and you have the winner.IMHO
Jakobi
Super Moderator
I hear what you are saying gasgasxc but you're only referring to the show ponys. Have loads of them here, working long stints making big dollars. They have excess coins, all the toys, all the bling, and the big ego to fit.. they'll tell you how sic their bike is, but fail to mention they rarely ride it, and if/when you do ride with them its evident that the skills don't match the talk up.
On the other hand, I think its just a small portion of the population. There are still loads of riders out there week in, week out, clocking up hours and kms on bikes of all vintage... generally the bikes look like they've been used just how you suggest. Plastics, rims, etc.. but it doesn't make the bike any less reliable with just a little typical maintenance.
The other consideration you overlook is the skill set. While a harder rider will push more into challenging terrain, they'll also tend to look after the bike and have more control over where and how it falls. Seen ample evidence where the weekend warrior loops a bike out on not much more than a slight incline.
It's always a compromise between one thing or another.
Caravan nailed it.. Its just a PIA when a few things you didn't expect all need attention at once.
Its not in my nature to have a whinge, but its still interesting to hear others opinions on the matter so I'll keep the thread going.
On the other hand, I think its just a small portion of the population. There are still loads of riders out there week in, week out, clocking up hours and kms on bikes of all vintage... generally the bikes look like they've been used just how you suggest. Plastics, rims, etc.. but it doesn't make the bike any less reliable with just a little typical maintenance.
The other consideration you overlook is the skill set. While a harder rider will push more into challenging terrain, they'll also tend to look after the bike and have more control over where and how it falls. Seen ample evidence where the weekend warrior loops a bike out on not much more than a slight incline.
It's always a compromise between one thing or another.
Caravan nailed it.. Its just a PIA when a few things you didn't expect all need attention at once.
Its not in my nature to have a whinge, but its still interesting to hear others opinions on the matter so I'll keep the thread going.
Fair enough Jakobi if you really believe that.But just for kicks.Do me a favor and give me some comparisons to the bikes you were riding in the 90s.Both dependability wise, resale wise and most importantly how long people owned them.You find a bike you rail on, that suits your style and takes you out and brings you back everytime you usually arent in a hurry to "upgrade" compare riding crews also, the mentality of the crews you rode with then compared to now and the depth of ecperience in those crews.Did somebody always have a newer, newish bike.Were the majority of bikes you were riding in the woods with were less then 3 years old.Half were, most were few were.Talk to me man.Lay it out there.Also would like to see some pictures of these bikes that get used and abused.Hear alot I mean alot about the 300 in here being the ultimate woods bike do all bike.Would love to see one user video anybody please shredding the woods on a 300.I mean working your way through that crew you ride with slicing dicing and gettin it.Throw a few nasty climbs in there while you are at it.I ride in Oregon and have for the last 35 years.We have everything from deep woods with gnarly elevation changes with varying terrain depending upon which side of which mountain you are on.We have high dessert wide open stuff and some of the sickest dunes riding in the country.And if Oregon doesnt have enough for you Washingtons got the rest.Reason I mention that is here its a culture.20 years 30 years ago 10 times the people rode.Last year of the Trask 2 day was ran in 95.Im saying to some degree offroad riding had lost its soul.Wasnt a hobby it was a life style.How does your experience compare.Do you see some of that, any if that.?
I get what you are saying. There are definitely a lot of garage queens. But I ride the crap out of my bike. It gets beat, then I do my best to make it pretty again. I think of rims as a consumable. As well as the pipe. (Most out of town trips I bring a spare pipe) Well, most of the bike is a consumable for that matter. It gets tossed in the trees, dumped in creeks, and tumbled down Slickrock. But when I'm not riding the bikes or spending time with my family, I'm usually tinkering with the bike. It definitely doesn't look new and it shows some abuse. but it's looks don't reflect the abuse its actually seen. I keep it clean and touched up as best I can and when I have a few extra bucks I like to throw it at a upgrade here or there.
Reliability wise, you might be right. But I beat the piss out of several KX450's on the trails, St. Anthony dunes, and Moab Slickrock and they never let me down. They are a tool. And as long as they are maintained properly....
I also grew up riding Washington state and Oregon dunes and there is a ton of amazing riding out there.
I guess, in short, it's not black and white there is a large spectrum of different types of bikes and owners/riders.
Reliability wise, you might be right. But I beat the piss out of several KX450's on the trails, St. Anthony dunes, and Moab Slickrock and they never let me down. They are a tool. And as long as they are maintained properly....
I also grew up riding Washington state and Oregon dunes and there is a ton of amazing riding out there.
I guess, in short, it's not black and white there is a large spectrum of different types of bikes and owners/riders.
Jakobi
Super Moderator
My experience will vary greatly to yours. Back in the 80's I rode around the farm, we had a few old XL's, and a couple of mates had some highly strung RM's etc we would play around with. Kids being kids.
During the 90's I wasn't riding. I was in high school, and then to university after. Time short, dollars short, interested in chasing girls rather than chasing blokes around the bush.
Mid to late 2000's back into riding. Started on a good old reliable mid 90's DR350. A tractor. Reliable as a stone, but unfortunately rode and handled like one too. The engine was a tractor, but as my skills progressed the suspension became the limiting factor. The riding crew at this stage were some older blokes, also on mid 90's bikes. A few had newer ones, but not a lot.
Found the potential of that bike and went to a 2nd hand 250F. Apparently one of those unreliable, highly strung, ticking time bombs. It racked up over 13,000kms with no more than oil changes, air filters, and occassionally new tyres. I had the bug, my skillset was continuing to improve, as was my mechanical knowledge. I was ready for a new challenge. Thats when I jumped over to GG.
I have some riding mates I met early which I've formed lasting friendships with. Some mates have moved away, others priorities have changed. New ones are welcomed and they either love what we ride or they tend to fade back to where they came from.
In general, most of us are on bikes at least a few years old. I don't know anyone with brand spankers. None are what you would consider 'showy' bikes. We ride in the heat, we ride in the rain.. I'd say for most of our group its beyond a hobby, and if anything as time has passed we've moved from hobby more towards lifestyle.
Not sure what you want to see in the videos/pictures? A video is going to showcase a particular riders skill, or lack of. A picture of a bike might show one thats been ridden vs one that sits on a stand.
Jakobi
Super Moderator
Further to last, the terrain we choose to ride has changed significantly as we seek to continue to develop our own skills. The area we ride aren't maintained trails and as such after several wet seasons, cyclones, etc even sections that used to be fast and flowy have become somewhat more technical over the last 10 years.
If anything, the trend I have seen is that we demand more from the bikes than we have in the past... and by all accounts, the bikes hold up really well under the punishment they receive.
If anything, the trend I have seen is that we demand more from the bikes than we have in the past... and by all accounts, the bikes hold up really well under the punishment they receive.
scratch250
Gold Level Site Supporter
Too many words! I love my 12 ec250r. No major issues as of yet. Knock Knock!
If you are fortunate enough to ride with a hardcore crew thats in it to get it then your blessed indeed my friend.If they keep their bikes mechanically tight and show up on time then you really got something.But here is an example of how the culture has changed.Take fitness of the riders today.Australia is kind of a bad comparison to U.S.A fitness wise.Aussies are just generally more active outdoors wise.20 years ago the riders I rode with were much more fit.Go back 30 years and almost all of us were fit.Just look at some 80s outdoor concert shots or old school Washougal pictures.Look at the crowds.Fit.Fast forward 30 years and this country is fat and getting fatter.Fitness is a big part of riding, along with more riding areas and opportunities.Before computers and video games.So, fewer hard core riders out there then you think, they are the exception.As far as video evidence, pictures are worth a thousand words.Now all of this, these three long winded posts come down to one point which is about this thread .When the culture changes then the product will follow.The culture wants light and fancy.Just think about how many people became Harley Davidson owners in the2000-2010 era after biker build off crap.I mean it was huge overnight craziness.Everybody had a Harley Davidson the wife too.Few with real street bike experience.And the brand catered to that group.And the accessories alone.Sheesh Harley watches Harley trucks bullshit single stitch vests, chaps uggg reallly!! Like everybody wants to see your fat ass old ladies butt hanging off the back of a bike.Guys wearing chaps, real riders do not wear chaps man..Leathers maybe,chaps never.Its all about the image.And 40 yeah 40 knucklehead wanna be riders all wadded up on the freeway in California.40 riders that just ran over eachother and into eachother like retards.Why? Cuz they arent bike riders.When the culture changes the brand will.follow.I am not singl.ing out Gas Gas here at all.Its across the board to some degree or other
Sorry my man, that is far from the trend.Our Trask 2 day qualifier has evolved into a sprint enduro in West Virginia.I still would like to see one member video of a Gas Gas rider on a seek and destroy mission in some truly nasty terrain against all comers.Show me the money.
hamilton
Gold Level Site Supporter
The grass always seems greener until your there.
I've had more then my share of bikes, some great some not so great.
The GG has a few small quirks, but overall not a bad package.
The bikes are well equipped stock with skid plate ,lighting, spark arrester, large enough fuel tank, quality chain, etc.
I'll give them credit for offering a 125 200 250 300. That's one reason ktm got so popular, give the riders what they want.
I've had very few problems from mine, considering the abuse of offroad.
Sure resale and parts could be better, but that wouldn't stop me from buying a new one.
For some reason I like mine more each time I ride them.
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