Rpm drops on idle

[Jakobi]

You can use your ear to set the slide height too. By opening and closing the throttle you can hear when the slide bottoms out. If you back the idle screw out until you hear it bottom metal on metal you know its closed fully. Then slowly turn it in until you hear the pitch change as it contacts the plastic idle screw.

Always make sure the throttle is open (slide up) a bit when adjusting the idle screw. Takes all the load off it and makes it much easier to adjust and reduces any chance of damaging the tip.

 

[kyton]

How does 1 set the 1mm gap. With idle screw or the nut on top of carb to pull slide up.

 

[Jakobi]

Use the idle screw to set the slide height, and the adjusters (at throttle housing and carb top) to set the free play in the throttle.

 

[kyton]

I have idle screw all the way in now. Put a 38 pilot in. Idles now when warm. Feels like it bogs a tad from 1/4 to 1/2 throttle and then lets rip. N1ec needle 2nd clip. 175 main. Sealevel

 

[Jim Cook]

I have idle screw all the way in now. Put a 38 pilot in. Idles now when warm. Feels like it bogs a tad from 1/4 to 1/2 throttle and then lets rip. N1ec needle 2nd clip. 175 main. Sealevel

Those are typical symptoms for your jetting (needle especially). You have raised the needle with the throttle stop screw to get it to idle.
The N1EC and N1ED needles that came on the bikes helped Les Tinius sell a lot of his jetting kits.
The factory riders seldom let the engine rpm drop back to idle. I was told that the N1Ex series needles were Kawasaki MX needles.


The difference in what a different (proper) jet needle will make will amaze you.

 

[kyton]

I have the only adjusted with idle screw. The nut on the top of the carb is all the way down now. Needle that was in there was a nbwh. Don't know I I put a 172 main in if it will make a difference or move the clip from 2nd to 3rd
Mine is a 04 200ec

 

[swehollow]

Guys im just stumped. Put the n1eg needle in, 38 pilot and 175 Main. Still cant have a decent idle. It just fucking drops randomly and kills the engine.

It can idle fine sometime 2, sometimes 15 secpnds, but eventually something happens and the bike rpm just goes way down to something That sounds more right to begin With, a calmer better sounds, but eventually dies. Im at my wits ends With this piece of shit.yeah i Said it. Nothing but trouble With this bike since day 1.

 

[Jakobi]

Am I allowed to laugh? That would be insensitive.

Can be frustrating as. More things. When you rebuilt it, what was your squish clearance? and.. who cares if it won't idle for more than 15-30 seconds. Ride it with the throttle open.

 

[swehollow]

Laugh all you want but there is something wrong. Its more often then not 2 seconds. Never 30.

I dont know what squish is.

 

[kyton]

Mine idles now with new settings. Seems to be a little rich still. find the bike very easy to kick & you can push the kick lever from top to stop position by hand going to do a compression test and in the process of getting another piston and rings. Must also replace the idle screw as the screwhead is worn badly, amongst the other items to replace.

 

[Jakobi]

Squish = clearance between piston and head.
Have you checked the reeds?

As I said earlier, I don't have enough info regarding the early models to be a whole lot of help as to what they typically like, however sounds to me as its still a bit rich if its loading and flaming out. You can always bump the idle screw in to raise the slide and lean it off as a test, but just know that winding it all the way in will cause more issues/inconsistant idle.

 

[Jim Cook]

When we were first into GasGas, they came from the factory with the 38 pilot jet. We couldn't get them to idle without the throttle stop screw all the way in.

After speaking with Les Tinius, I started running larger pilot jets to eliminate a lean condition in the transition from idle to low midrange. All at once, I found that the bike would idle without the throttle stop screw all the way in.

I found the 42 pilot to be my best compromise between the ability to idle and the staying clean (carb not loading up while doing slow trail work in the mountains).
Now, in hot weather while working trail, the idle will still drop off to nothing after 15 to 30 seconds as the hot running conditions (very little or no air flow while putting up arrows and cutting vines and limbs on a 90F+ day) cause the jetting to be rich for conditions. When that was the case this summer, I adjusted the air screw to compensate.

These are not race carbs. I've not seen any GasGas enduro bike idle forever like an old DT250 or a GasGas trials bike. Those bikes have much smaller throated carbs, which are tuned for a different style of power delivery.

 

[kyton]

Anyone know what the 04 200EC compression should be. Want to check mine before i swap out the piston & rings.

 

[swehollow]

When we were first into GasGas, they came from the factory with the 38 pilot jet. We couldn't get them to idle without the throttle stop screw all the way in.

After speaking with Les Tinius, I started running larger pilot jets to eliminate a lean condition in the transition from idle to low midrange. All at once, I found that the bike would idle without the throttle stop screw all the way in.

I found the 42 pilot to be my best compromise between the ability to idle and the staying clean (carb not loading up while doing slow trail work in the mountains).
Now, in hot weather while working trail, the idle will still drop off to nothing after 15 to 30 seconds as the hot running conditions (very little or no air flow while putting up arrows and cutting vines and limbs on a 90F+ day) cause the jetting to be rich for conditions. When that was the case this summer, I adjusted the air screw to compensate.

These are not race carbs. I've not seen any GasGas enduro bike idle forever like an old DT250 or a GasGas trials bike. Those bikes have much smaller throated carbs, which are tuned for a different style of power delivery.

Thanks jim. I hear what you are saying, i just have a hard time digesting the fact That People say "these bikes wont idle". I mean,its a engine like any other, the right amount of air and gas going Into the cylinder should keep the explosions going until one or the other runs out.

I could try going up to a 42 pilot.

Its just That to my best knowledge something Else is up With this bike. If i get the Chance i Will post a video of the phenomena.

 

[swehollow]

Squish = clearance between piston and head.
Have you checked the reeds?

As I said earlier, I don't have enough info regarding the early models to be a whole lot of help as to what they typically like, however sounds to me as its still a bit rich if its loading and flaming out. You can always bump the idle screw in to raise the slide and lean it off as a test, but just know that winding it all the way in will cause more issues/inconsistant idle.

The reeds looked fine.

Thing is, if i raise the slide up enough i Can have it idling,but at a crazy rpm ofc. What does That Tell ya?

 

[hamilton]

Have you inspected the choke plunger and seat? The cable operated one has got me a couple times.

 

[swehollow]

I checked the plunger and there was not much to see? I never checked the seat, dont know why really

 

[Selvagem]

Check the ignition timing. Makes all the difference to achieve more stable idle. Point very late ignition becomes impossible to get a good idle.

I suffered years to get a good idle. Managed to solve 95% of my idling problems changing the Squish (which is ridiculous originally), using other needles (NE SUZY) and conferring point of ignition and reed valves.

How Jakoby said, having idle for a little while already good, can not wait to leave your bike at idle for several minutes ... the important thing to idle in a technical area.

Your carburetor must be a AS1 model, using needles NE, consider the richer needles, diameter G or F.

Good luck!

 

[Jakobi]

My bikes never liked to idle very well with over 2mm squish. Particularly my 2010 which had around 2.6mm stock. Get it down to 1.25mm and the compression ratio right and she'll tick over at next to nothing, most the time.

 

[swehollow]

So here is an update. I tried needles and jets in different combination. It runs like a Beast but has the same issue With idling. When it got realllly warm after hours of Riding it would Idle.

I Think i Will look in too the squish clearence. See whats going on there.

Lets say i have 2mm+ and i have someone machine it down to 1ish, what is this compression ratio you Guys are talking about? I Guess Any Good machine shop should know all the necessary steps?